| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Oops, I mean "your title: Chief Defender of the SDA Faith on FAFF. " | ||
| Max |
Little Freudian slip there. Actually, if I were Ken I'd WELCOME losing my tithe. | ||
| Max |
Ken, Ken, Come on in! | ||
| Max |
Ken? | ||
| Max |
Sigh. | ||
| Max |
KEN WILL NOT OR CANNOT ANSWER THREE SIMPLE QUESTIONS ON FAFF. PLEASE HELP HIM! | ||
| Billthompson |
So Ken is the "Chief Defender of the SDA Faith..."? Well, there are some titles that are worth something and some that are not. For example: Johnny Cochran, "Chief defender of guilty clients". David Koresh, "Chief defender of Branch Davidians". There are some titles which are not to be desired. | ||
| Max |
Hey Bill, Welcome to the melee. Actually, the title I have playfully suggested for Ken was, "Chief Defender of the SDA Faith on FAFF." Meaning, I want some more able defenders to share their wares with us. But as tiger said to leopard, I'm not lion: I've had more fun with Ken on FAFF than anyone else. And I think of him as a friend. I don't know if he reciprocates. But that doesn't matter. Ken belongs to God. And God loves Ken as much as he loves me. That said, "Oh Keeeeeeeeen! Come on back out of the woodwork! All is forgiven!" Max of the Cross | ||
| Billthompson |
If Ken follows his normal pattern, he will completely ignore all of the above, seem to have disappeared from this site and then suddenly reappear and repeat many of the same things he has already said here before many times. He'll stay until someone asks him a question he can not answer and then he'll do his vanishing act again for awhile, always evading our questions of him, yet claiming victory while at this site. He still has not answered my 3 simple questions. Oh, he tried a one sentence answer which did not address the 3 areas, but has yet to address those specifics. Do I need to repeat them here again, or can we all quote them by heart now? A Sinner Saved By Grace, Bill Thompson | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Bill, Although Ken has difficulty in answering questions and moles his way into oblivion as soon as the questions stack up, he has NEVER demonstrated a mean or nasty streak! I really don't think that he deserves to be included even remotely close to: " Johnny Cochran, "Chief defender of guilty clients". David Koresh, "Chief defender of Branch Davidians"." I have e-mailed him and received mail back and never got a hint of anything other than an honestly deluded soul with his eyes tightly squeezed shut to stay that way. (oxymoron!?) I think the title: "Chief Defender of the SDA Faith on FAFF." is very fitting as he has dialogued so diligently in spurts over the last months. Maryann | ||
| Max |
Bill, I have to second Maryann's observation. Though Ken may be a goof, he's not malicious. And I have a big warm spot in my heart for him. | ||
| Max |
Bill again, I don't mean to short-change your interests in this. I think Ken DOES deserve to be exposed for his irresponsible behavior in exposing Patti for not having answered his questions while ignoring yours. And I have taken pains to so expose him. Ken's behavior is the behavior of people who are bewitched. Think about it. | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: 1. Only the old covenant says, Remember the Sabbath. The new covenant never does. But the old covenant also says, Be circumcised. Why? Ken: What exactly is the new covenant? Where is the new covenant found in the Bible? I don't see where in the Ten Commandments it talks about circumcision. Maybe you can point that out to me. 2. Jesus broke the Sabbath and commanded others to do so. Why? Ken: Jesus did not break the Sabbath! He just wasen't keeping it like the Pharisees thought it to be kept. 3.The holy record says only God rested on the seventh day of creation week. There is no record anywhere in Scripture that Adam ever did. Why? Max, Adam & Eve were not resting, after all they were created on the preparation day, the Sabbath was made for them to worship God & to remember exactly who made the heavens, earth, and all that is in them. Cheers Ken | ||
| Max |
Hi Ken, I have only enough time to post to one of your questions, but will get back to the others later. Question from Ken: What exactly is the new covenant? Where is the new covenant found in the Bible? Answer from Max (using the KJV): Jeremiah 31: 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Hebrews 8: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8: 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to VANISH away. Do you consider that one question answered? Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Ken, I just see no fog in those verses?! I do admire your pluck in hangin' in there though;-)) Maryann | ||
| Max |
Ken, more KJV for you: Exodus 34 27. And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a COVENANT with thee and with Israel. 28. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS. 29. And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. Deuteronomy 4 12. And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. 13. And he declared unto you his COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. 14. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it. Ken, these verses show conclusively that the Ten Commandments and the old covenant are equivalent in the Bible. Therefore, when Hebrews talks about the old covenant vanishing away, it is talking about the Ten Commandments. Max of the Cross | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: As i'm sure you know if you read Romans chapt. 8 & 9 you can plainly see whats being talked about is not the Ten Commandments. What is being talked about is the shedding of christs blood to cover sins so we don't have to continue in animal sacrfices etc. As you can see I have conveniently pasted part of Romans 8 & 9 for you to read. These are what I would call Moses' laws. The laws that were placed in the side of the Ark of the Covenant. These are the laws that are done away with, not God's Great Ten Commandments. Heb. 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Heb. 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. Heb. 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Heb. 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaronıs rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; Heb. 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Heb. 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. Heb. 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: Heb. 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Heb. 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Heb. 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Heb. 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Heb. 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Heb. 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb. 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Heb. 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Heb. 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Heb. 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. Heb. 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Heb. 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Heb. 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb. 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Cheers Ken | ||
| Billthompson |
Maryann, Max and Ken, I just reread my previous post and see why you thought I was harsh with Ken. That was not my intent. I did not mean to equate him with David Koresh. I did not even mean to equate Johnny Cochran with David Koresh. I intended to draw attention to the invalidity of SDAism and the dubious nature of taking pride in defending such a system. I was trying to think of other "Chief Defenders" who have no reason to boast of their accomplishments. I guess I did not choose such great examples. At any rate, my point was not to critisize Ken but rather the SYSTEM (SDAism) he defends with great passion. I guess I was critical of the way he ignores our questions but boasts that Patti and others do not answer his. This seems hypocritical to me. This is separate from the "title" issue, however. | ||
| Ken |
Hi Mr. Thompson: I'm defending the Bible, that this site regularly trashes. I do not believe I've said thing 1 of White in her defense. The only thing I'm trying to figure out is how people can so blatantly mis-read, quote, and interpret the scriptures... Ken | ||
| Billthompson |
Hi Ken, I also said nothing of Mrs. White. Why did you mention her? I know you feel you are defending the Bible, but actually you are heavily Old Testament biased (focused), ignore the existance of the New Covenant (see Jeremiah 31:31-32, 2 Corinthians 3:6-11 and the entire book of Hebrews, try Romans and Galatians next) and generally defend what SDAs say the Bible says rather than Scripture in it's entirety with the clear understanding that comes once one is a new creature in Christ, enlightened by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. When the Good News (Gospel) becomes reality for a person, the Old Testament makes much more sense, the shadows are seen for what they are when the substance (Christ) is our focus. What a shame to still be worshiping the shadows when the substance has come. It is like a war bride kissing her husband's photograph good night while he is away at war. This is a beautiful thing while he is away but when he returns from the war those kisses should be lavished on the substance (her husband) rather than the shadow (his picture). Don't dimiss these thoughts lightly. Pray before responding. I still maitain that any discussion with you, Ken, needs to start way back at the very basics of God's plan of salvation. I am still waiting for you to address the 3 SPECIFIC questions I have asked you repeatedly here. I feel you think that salvation is some combination of God's grace and our keeping the 10 commandments. This is adding works to the plan of salvation (Gospel) by grace. This is a terrible thing to do, Galatians 2:21; Galatians 1:6-8. I have been where you are, Ken. I once made the same arguments you make. I feel your pain and lack of assurance of salvation...been there done that. It is a terrible substitute for what Christ has waiting for us 1 John 5:13. |
