| Author | Message | ||
| BRUCE H |
ROMANS 5:20 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, ROMANS 7:5 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. ROMANS 7:8 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. WHAT DO THESE TEXTS MEAN TO YOU. BRUCE | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Dear Bruce, Thanks for focusing on this important point. Here's what these texts mean to me: ROMANS 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more. WHAT THIS MEANS TO ME: When the law was given at Sinai/Horeb, there was no equivalent law in existence. Therefore God was winking at a tremendous amount of evil. But when the law -- spotty and incomplete though it was (Hebrews 1:1) -- became known, the people to whom it was made known, the twelve tribes, became aware of and responsible for their own actions. They agreed, for example, to do all that God had commanded. At that moment their sin began to abound without limit. But God, whose "mercy never faileth," let his grace abound even more to save them from imminent death. (I think of this as a mathematical asymtotic convergence, though that's only a fallible human metaphor for something far beyond my mental ability to grasp and knowable only through faith.) And, speaking of things far above human mental abilities, it was God's sovereign will that his grace be mediated by the sacrificial system, "the blood of bulls and goats." But this system was meant to last only until the time the once-for-all-time, once-for-all-people sacrifice of Jesus Christ put an end to the necessity of all animal sacrifices for all people everywhere. ROMANS 7:5. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. WHAT THIS MEANS TO ME: Consider Paul's own life. When he was "in the flesh" the law aroused his sinful passions to the point that he actually participated in the murder of the obviously righteous Stephen. Paul was so "wigged out" in his insane zeal to preserve the law, that he smashed it to bits by violating his own cherished Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill [murder]." Thus, in a crucial sense, the law goaded Paul into carrying out this heinous "fruit unto death" -- both Stephen's literal death and Paul's spiritual death. How heavily this must have weighed on Paul's beleaguered mind sweating out those three solitary years after being blinded by Christ on the Road to Damascus before his sanity was fully restored via the grace of God. ROMANS 7:8. But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. WHAT THIS MEANS TO ME: Again, as above, "The law not only reveals sin, it also stimulates it" (text note, NIV). Here Paul is making not only a courageous self-revelation of his "under the law" experience prior to Damascus Road, but he is also exposing the naked-before-God state of all who are "under the law" and not clothed with the seamless white wedding garment of Christ. Thus, how can it be anything other than hideous to be "under the law"? For to be "under the law" is to be "without Christ." And who could possibly know this better than former SDAs -- former Pharisees, former Saducees, former "Judaizers from Jerusalem" -- who have finally found Christ. But, hideous or not, the giving of the law was a necessary show-and-tell operation meant to school all people in their need for the Savior Christ Jesus. I'm having a harder time with the clause, "For apart from the law sin was dead." The NIV text note says, sin was "not nonexistent but not fully perceived" either. What do you think? Sin is like a "dead" snake that "springs to life and sinks its venomous fangs into your leg" when goaded by the "walking stick" of the law? Back to your original question: "Can the law make you sin?" I would answer, Yes, absolutely, no question. If you are under it you have no choice but to sin. But the law does more than just (1) make us sin. It also (2) forces us see our sin as sin and as "exceedingly sinful." It (3) makes us responsible for our sin, that is, it forces us to stand "without excuse" before our Maker. Still, our responsibility is limited. For once the law forces us to become aware of our sin problem, it (4) forces us to choose to accept or reject God's only solution: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life -- which begins right here and right now. This gracious choice is actually our only live option. For, "to sin or not to sin" (apologies to Hamlet) is not, and has never been, a live option, not if we are to believe Hebrews 11. If it were, then righteousness would come via law-keeping. But we know that righteousness has never come, and can never come, via law-keeping. It can only come via Christ-keeping. Now, I have another question for you, Bruce: Why is it so difficult for xxx-rated, hard-core SDAs to see this picture? "There is none so blind as he who will not see"? If the NIV scholars' interpretation is correct -- that the law stimulates sin -- then perhaps someone ought to write a book entitled, "The Law of God as Pornography." Wait....did I say that? No, couldn't have. Not me. Strike that, please. A new creature, full to bursting with the new wine of unmerited favor and happy debauchee of Christ, Jude | ||
| Timo K. |
Jude, the book sounds good. Might be a good tool to spread the Gospel also inside SDA-church. My contribution will be praying for the book so it will be Christ-centered and full of love. timo | ||
| Timo K. |
Sorry, by mistake I posted the above on wrong place. Should have been in "former adventist calm project. timo | ||
| Lynn W |
LOL Timo, are you sure? Sounds like both books need prayer. LOL | ||
| BRUCE H |
Seventh-Day Adventist have separated the Ten commandments from the Book of the Law and have made the fourth commandment the greatest of all commandments. But Jesus said the great commandment in the law is Matt 22: 36-38 You shall love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. (Deut 6:5) this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: you shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). Did you know that deut 6:5 is commandment number 418 in the Book of the Law. The second great commandment is Lev 19:18 or commandment 243 in the Book of the Law, neither one is found in the Ten Commandments. If we look in Galatians it says. Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the BOOK OF THE LAW (TORAH OR FIRST FIVE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE), to do them. You have all heard the statement from sabatarians saying God wrote it with his finger in stone. Well why did God leave out of the stone tablets (the Ten commandments) the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS, 418 and 243, and put them in the Book of the Law? Do Adventists by the Law, sin by violating the SECOND GREAT COMMANDMENT, #243 at the expense of the Sabbath or fourth commandment in the decalog? Well do Adventists love their fellow Christians as they love themselves, or do they see them as Babylon, with 666 written on their foreheads? Does not the Pride of their fourth Commandment curse them as Gal 3:10 says. This is a good example of how the LAW CAN MAKE YOU SIN. If you look at John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. This sounds a lot like commandment 243 or Lev 19:18. Why then does John call it a new commandment? Because it is in the New Covenant and as a New Covenant it must have its own new laws. Bruce Heinrich BH | ||
| Darrell |
Bruce, another thing that makes this commandment new is that it says to "love one another as I have loved you", which goes far beyond the old covenant command to "love your neighbor as yourself". This command of Jesus is about the same self-sacrificing love that Paul is referring to when he tells husbands to "love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." This kind of love is not possible unless the Holy Spirit writes the law on our hearts, as was prophecied by Jeremiah (Jer 31:33) and quoted in the letter to the Hebrews (Heb 8,10). | ||
| Bruce H |
Why was "the Law" given? We would naturally assume that it was to provide a guide for our behavior, to get us to behave better, etc. It comes as a shock to discover that it was given so that sin would increase (Rom 5:20) !!!!! The Law was given to expose our sin nature (Rom 7:7) and to incite the sin nature to sin more (Rom 7:8-23); and since the sin nature cannot be reformed, to drive us to despair of self effort (Rom 7:24-25); and, thus, to drive us to dependence upon the Holy Spirit alone (Rom 8:1-4). This leads to the end of the reign of sin nature: Why, "it aint gonna 'reign' no more!" The great triumvirate - redemption (Rom 3:24; 1Cor 1:30; Gal 3:13 Eph 1:7.), propitiation (Rom 3:25; 1John 2:2; 4:10), and reconciliation (Rom 5:10-11; 2 Cor 5:18-20; Col 1:22), is totally the work of God, accomplished through the death of Jesus Christ. And it is all appropriated to us by FAITH. Faith is the one thing we can do which has no merit on our part. The Book of Romans gives us the most complete diagnosis of sin, salvation and justification. And the three verbs tenses of "BEING SAVED" (Not like Adventist say it): Verb tense 1---- Have been saved; positionally (Eph 2:8,9), from the penalty of sin, called JUSTIFICATION SALVATION. Verb tense 2---- Are being saved: operationally by the Holy Spirit, moment by moment (Rom 6); from the POWER of sin, called SANCTIFICATION. Verb tense 3---- SHALL be saved; from the PRESENCE of sin (Rom 8:23 here called the redemption of our body). Can a man lose his salvation? YES!!!!!!!! If it depends on him. I got this from Chuch Missler at www.khouse.org (user name; trends) (access code; welcome). Bruce Heinrich BH |
