| Author |
Message |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 12:21 pm: |     |
Hey Bruce!
I am kinda dence, so just so there is no error, you are saying the new Covenent replaces the expired Old Covenant? |
Lynn W
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 1:39 pm: | |
Gary, not only is Bruce saying it, that what 2 Cor. 3 says. |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 2:32 pm: | |
That theme is all through both Old and New Testaments. Read Galatians cover to cover, then try keeping the Sabbath or other SDA laws. Read it from an easy to digest version like NIV.
The SDA-EGW Historical Society
. |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 2:46 pm: | |
What theme, Gary? |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 4:19 pm: | |
J the O:
Everything, every message, every verse, in the Bible, points to Christ, in some way. Do you agree?
If you are holding onto a lifeline called the law, why do you need christ? John the Baptist cried out that he must decrese so Christ could increase, and that same reasoning applies to the heavy code of the written law.
Complete study on the Ten Commandments
. |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 5:51 pm: | |
Can you define the theme? |
Bruce H
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 8:00 pm: | |
I have had some Adventist say to me well God did
not give them all those extra Laws (613) they were
given by Moses and not God. Well I went through
the whole Torah and I found that the Bible
expressly shows that God himself gave all those
commandments in fact face to face (numbers
12:6-8).
Here are some examples.
Gen 1:28; Gen 17:10-11; (EXODUS) Exo 12:1-15,
24,25,28, 43,44; Exo 13:1,2; Exo
16:11,16,23,28,29 (SABBATH COMMANDMENT, LET EVERY
MAN REMAINE IN HIS PLACE); Exo 20:no problem
right; Exo 20:22-26 Exo 21:1-31; Exo
24:1-4,(7),(12); Exo 25:1; Exo 26:1; Exo
27:1,20-21; Exo 28:1,43; Exo 29:1,46; Exo
30:1,11,17,22,34; Exo 31:1,12,(18); Exo 35:1-3
(SABBATH COMMANDMENT, KINDLE NO FIRE); Exo39:42;
Exo 40:1-16; Now in Leviticus the Lord commands
from the tabernacle of meeting. (Desmond Ford
says that all the ceremonial Laws were given at
the tabernacle of meeting, well that leaves 3
commandments in Genesis and 111 commandments in
Exodus that were given on the mountain, this
includes all those given above, as well as the
extra commandments about the SABBATH, like you
shall not leave your dwelling, no fires, no work).
Now from the tabernacle of meeting (LEVITICUS)
Lev 1:1-2; Lev 4:1-2; Lev 5:14; Lev 6:1,8,19,24;
Lev 7:22,28,(37,38 wow you mean these were given
on the mount too); Lev 8:1,36; Lev 9:7; Lev 10:8,
Lev 11:1,45-46; Lev 12:1-3; Lev 13:1; Lev 14:1,33;
Lev 15:1; Lev 16:1, (34 everlasting statute);
17:1; 18:1,30; Lev 19:1, (18 THIS IS THE SECOND
GREAT COMMANDMENT),30,31; Lev 20:1,2,7; Lev
21:1,23,24; Lev 22:1,17,32,33; Lev
23:1,9,23,26,33; Lev 24:1,13,23; Lev 25:1,17,55;
Lev 26:1,18,45,46; Lev 27:1,34; (NUMBERS) Nu
1:1,19,48,54; Nu 2:2,34; Nu 3:1,5,11,14,40,42,51;
Nu 4:1,17,21,49; Nu 5:1,5,11; Nu 6:1,22; Nu
7:4,,11,89; Nu 8:1,5,23; Nu 9:1,2,9,20,23; Nu
10:1,16,23,25; Nu 12:(6-8 HERE GOD SAYS THAT HE
DOES NOT SPEAK TO MOSES BY VISION, OR DREAMS BUT
SPEAKS FACE TO FACE!),14; Nu 13:1; Nu
14:11,26,35,39; Nu 15:1,17,23,(32-35 HERE THE LORD
GOD SAID TO MOSES PUT THE MAN TO DEATH WHO BROKE
THE SABBATH),37,41; Nu 16:20,23,36,44; Nu
17:1,11; NU 18:1,8,20,25; Nu 19:1,2; Nu
20:6,7,12,27; Nu 21:8,16,34; Nu 22:9,12,20; Nu
23:4,16; Nu 24:2; Nu 25:4,10,16; Nu 26:1,52; Nu
27:5,12,15,18,22; Nu 28:1; Nu 29:40; Nu 30:1,16;
Nu 31:1,7,25,31; Nu 32:10; Nu 33:2,50; Nu
34:1,16,29; Nu 35:1,9,34; Nu 36:5,13:
(DEUTERONOMY) Du:1:3,6,19,26,42; Du
2:2,9,13,17,31: Du 3:2,23,26: Du 4:1,2,5; Du
5:2,5,6,22-28: Du 6:1,2,(5 THIS IS THE GREAT
COMMANDMENT #418 IN BOOK OF LAW), ETC. ETC..
DEUTERONOMY 12:23 Whatever I (GOD) command you be
careful to observe it; YOU SHALL NOT ADD TO IT
NOR TAKE AWAY FROM IT.
This is the book of the law commandment # 454 (do
not add to the Law) and commandment #455 (do not
take away from the Law).
Now who do you know who does that. Now for
anybody who may ask, I died to all these Law's how
about you.
Bruce H
bh |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 9:31 pm: | |
Bruce,
How do you relate the commands written by New Testament writers, such as Paul, to commands written by Old Testament writers, such as Moses? Example Romans 13:13, NIV:
"Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy."
Are these not as much commandments and laws just as much as, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," or, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife"?
In fact, these rules seem stricter than those in the Old Testament, more finely tuned to the realities in which the New Testament Christians lived every day. For example, I can't find any law or commandment in the Old Testament that says, Thou shalt not become drunk.
Yet in the New Testament the command not to become drunk occurs in at least five places:
Romans 13:13
Galatians 5:21
1 Timothy 3:3
Titus 1:7
1 Peter 4:3
Question: Are we not "under" these New Testament strictures -- which are actually more severe -- just as much as old covenant people were "under" old covenant strictures?
I respect your views and interpretations, Bruce. What do you think?
Jude |
Cas
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2000 - 11:59 am: | |
Lynn
Thank You so much for responding to my questions re: Ellen White and her teaching of Jesus's example. I usually print off your studies so I can study them with my Bible.
Your knowledge and study of Ellen White, and the willingness to share it is much appreciated!
God Bless You. |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2000 - 2:48 pm: | |
The SDA-EGW Historical Society
Jude:
You asked me to define the theme of the Bible? I could give you something complex that would choke a horse, however, Jesus was fond of simple solutions, donít you think?
The theme of the Bible is love challenged by anti-love, and love won.
If you need something complex, I could data dump on you, however I think we all kinda know the theme. |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2000 - 2:55 pm: | |
The SDA-EGW Historical Society
Bruce:
I agree with you, the SDA,s have a problem with the law. The law was a mirror of something else, not yet a reality. Christ is that reality. Christ is the law. Christ is the Sabbath. Christ is everything.
Every law, while important, is just a shadow of the reality, which is Christ. The Jews rejected Christ and clung to the shadow of the very thing they turned over to die. That is why I do not keep the shadowy Sabbath, because I do not want to stand in the shadows, when I can stand in the light. |
BRUCE H
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2000 - 8:04 pm: | |
AMEN GARY!!!! |
jtree
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2000 - 5:48 am: | |
Here here, AMEN Gary...
Bruce I have had them tell me the same thing there, concerning the "cerimonial and the moral" laws of God. |
Onesimus
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 9:33 pm: | |
Thank you, Gary, for your reference to the "Complete study on the 10 Commandments" by John Resinger. I am working through it and it is excellent so far. Do you know anything about the author? |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2000 - 8:48 am: | |
I do not know him. |
jtree
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2000 - 7:05 pm: | |
Gary, did you ever get your get.to/the.truth web site FIXED yet? It's still not working correctly. |
Maryann
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2000 - 8:14 pm: | |
Hi Bruce,
I just found the post you made Feb. 17, 10pm. That may be the thing that will help me out with the 10C V ceremonial. When the SDAs separate them, my hands are tied with ignorance. I'll take a few days to wade through it.
A late thanks.....Maryann |
Gary Mayo
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 1:27 pm: | |
Jtree:
I am still working on the revamp. Gary < |
George
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 11:12 am: | |
Message deleted--beyond the scope of this forum.
-Richard |
Jtree
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 10:04 am: | |
This is a recent EMAIL I recieved, and want to share with anyone here. I know some will be redundant, but see how great lengths and how desperate these people are?
This is what he said before,
Joshua,
If you ever get a chance, read the letter attached to this email. It is in Microsoft Word. Perhaps it will give you a different perspective
concerning the Sabbath. Thank!
Name removed.
To Whom It May Concern:
I am rather disturbed with the sign written outside your church door, saying "Lets meet here Sunday"
with God's name written upon it, as if He has endorsed Sunday sacredness or worship. I have been
impressed by the Holy Spirit to share some Biblical texts that would otherwise disagree with Sunday,
or the first day of the week being the day of worship. I won't argue with your doctrinal beliefs, though I
say disagree with it. Nor can I tell you what is right and what you should believe. Instead, I am simply
sharing texts directly taken from the Bible with thought-provoking questions that I hope you will ask
yourself. I am only asking you to read these texts and let the Bible speak for itself, and pray to the
Lord that He might impress upon your heart in what is right.
I have also attached a couple of interesting documents that I encourage you to look up its sources
about how the day of worship was changed from the seventh-day Sabbath, Saturday, whom the Jews
have faithfully kept since the 10 Commandments were given from God, to the first day of the week,
Sunday.
Now, I would like to include the credibility of the Bible so that we can all trust. Please read John
17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; Matthew 4:4. I also encourage you to read the book of
Daniel, as it explains how Bible prophecy has come true.
Assuming that we can trust the Bible as our guide, I would like to continue. I, as a Christian, believe
that we are saved by grace, and that we grow in grace. I want to emphasize this because I don't want
you to consider me to be dogmatic and a legalist when I talk about the 10 Commandments. I keep the
10 Commandments because I love God (John 14:15) and want to keep them.
The Sabbath
Genesis 2:1-3 - What 3 things did God do at Creation that made the seventh day special? He rested
on the seventh day, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it. What does sanctify mean? It is set aside
for a sacred use. When God blessed something, for how long is it blessed? Read 1 Chronicles 17:27
Exodus 20:8-11 - Please notice that in this text, the very heart of the 10 Commandments, God places
His seal. What is a seal? Read Romans 4:11, Ephesians 1:13, and Ephesians 4:30. In the Bible, two
figurative uses of the seal are made. A seal may stand for a truth or requirement of God and a seal may
indicate God's ownership and approval. What three things does a government seal contain? It contains
a name, title, and territory. In this fourth Commandment of God, it says, "The seventh day is the
Sabbath of the Lord thy God . . . For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth." The fourth
Commandment is the seal of God's 10 Commandment Law because it states God's name ("the Lord
thy God"), His title or office as Creator ("Made"), and His dominion ("Heaven and Earth"). I worship
God because I love Him and want to Remember Him, to set apart from my busy daily activity, and to
show my loyalty to Him, especially if He commanded us to and wants us to obey Him. I choose to
keep all 10 Commandments by the grace of God. I believe this is the very Law, the 10
Commandments, that we will be judged by when Christ comes back to take us home with Him in
heaven. Its entire focus is based on love, where the first four Commandments show our love for God
and the last six Commandments show our love for man. Some believe that these old rules do not apply
anymore. I respectfully disagree, and you will find later in this letter why.
Ezekiel 20:12, 20 - It is also a bond between God and me that I choose to keep the Sabbath day
holy.
Isaiah 58:12-14 - I set aside this day to spend time with God and not pursue my own interests and
pleasures. I have found over the years that it is a great joy and blessing to be able to spend time with
God and rest from my weekly work activity and not worry about bills or business. This verse is very
true to those who choose to keep it.
Luke 4:16 - I am including this text because Christ kept the seventh-day Sabbath. Though I know
many scholars say that Jesus broke the seventh day in Luke 6, when He took the grain of wheat from
the field. I believe that Jesus did not break the seventh day as it was truly meant for. The Pharisees
were legalistic scholars who made Sabbath a burden through its many rules. The Sabbath was not
meant this way. Jesus may have broke the rules of the Pharisees, but He did not break the true
meaning of the Sabbath by healing people on the Sabbath or taking the grain of wheat. Besides, if
Jesus had truly broken the Sabbath, we would not all have been saved because there would have been
no perfect sacrifice to die and take away our sins. Do you not agree with me?
Acts 17:2 - Paul even kept the Sabbath, a man who lived after the Messiah. The seventh-day Sabbath
sacredness was still kept, even by Paul. Some scholars believe that after Jesus died on the cross, these
rules, the 10 Commandments no longer apply. I respectfully disagree and I will explain later in this
letter. But I wanted to show here that even Paul kept the Sabbath.
Acts 13:42-44 - Again, Paul, preached and kept the seventh-day Sabbath with the Jews in the
synagogue.
Isaiah 66:22-23 - I truly believe we will be keeping the seventh-day Sabbath in heaven, even to come
in the future, as this text suggests. Remember that when God blesses something, it is blessed forever.
Mark 2:27-28 - The Sabbath was created for man, for us, and not man for the Sabbath. This goes
again to the Pharisees and its strict laws in making the Sabbath a burden, which was not the intention
God had in mind. God is Lord of the Sabbath.
I would like to include a quote if I may, taken from the Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, written by
Harris Franklin Rall. He said, "Take the matter of Sunday . . . there is no passage telling Christians to
keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
Jesus preached from the Old Testament. This was His Bible. He didn't preach on the New Testament
because it wasn't written yet. In fact, it starts out about Him. So, keep this in mind. Many Christians
like to only preach from the New Testament, but I believe the Old Testament is just as important as the
New Testament. In fact, many of the keys that are held in Revelation can be found in the Old
Testament, and can unveil new truth, but that is another topic for another time, which I encourage you
to look up. Now, I would like to focus on all the texts that talk about the first day of the week,
Sunday. As you go through these texts, ask yourself, does it specifically state the seventh-day Sabbath
was changed to the first day of the week?
The First Day of the Week
Matthew 28:1 - This text only talks about Mary Magdalene and Mary going to Jesus tomb on Sunday.
As the story goes on, Jesus had risen. Praise the Lord! Now, does it talk about God changing the day
of worship from the seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday? I don't see it here.
Mark 16:2 - This pretty much explains the same thing mentioned above. Again, no mention of the
change by God.
Luke 24:1 - Again, it mentions about Jesus resurrection. But still, no mention of the authority to change
the seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday.
John 20:1 - This explains the same thing as mentioned above, but still no mention of the change of the
seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday. In fact, let me point out that Jesus' body rested in the tomb over the
Sabbath. I believe this is just as significant as Jesus death and resurrection. Just the very thought that
He rested on this day, even when he was asleep in the tomb, I believe we should still follow His
example. Even John 20:19 describes Jesus appearing to his disciples on the evening of the first day of
the week, hours after his resurrection. They were gathered behind shut doors out of fear of the
authorities, not in order to hold a religious service. Would you shut your doors and lock them so
people couldn't come in to worship? No, there isn't enough authority in this one text to cause a change
in the day of worship. Besides, this wasn't a regular religious activity.
Acts 20:7 - Let me point out first of all that no mention of the change of the seventh-day Sabbath to
Sunday by the authority of God. While this may remain a topic of debate, let me also point out that this
was not a weekly, regular ceremony. One reason is because Paul planned to leave "on the morrow." It
was a farewell occasioned by Paul's departure from Troas, not a regular occurrence. Second, the
meeting occurred in all likelihood on Saturday night, as the New English Bible indicates, so it may have
been a continuation of Sabbath services that Paul and his fellow believers held together. Third, the fact
that Paul resumed his journey on the next day implies that the first day of the week did not hold
particular religious significance for him. In fact, Paul may have even rested on the seventh-day Sabbath
and didn't want to do any travelling on that day, so he waited until the first day of the week to begin his
travels.
1 Corinthians 16:2 - Again, no specific change was made in the day of worship. Paul encouraged his
readers to put something aside on the first day of every week so he could take a contribution to the
Christians in Jerusalem. He didn't want to solicit funds during his coming visit. This was advice to Paul's
readers as individuals ("each of you"), not a call for collections during their worship services. In fact,
the text says nothing at all about a religious service.
Revelation 1:10 - Many people believe, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day," indicates that the
apostolic church hold Sunday to be sacred. It is true that in time the statement "the Lord's day" came
to refer to the first day of the week, but there is nothing to suggest that this was its meaning in the book
of Revelation. So far, with all the evidence the Bible contains, the Lord's Day is still the seventh-day
Sabbath. This does not state that there was any authority to change the seventh-day Sabbath.
Colossians 2:16 - Many people use this text to interpret Paul's polemic against legalism as a rejection
of the Sabbath, but the apostle's specific concern was the misuse of the law as a means of gaining
salvation. Paul never taught people to ignore its basic precepts. Many believe this text justifies
disregarding of the seventh-day Sabbath, but the historical context of the letter to Colossae supports a
different conclusion. It suggests that Paul objected to a mistaken motive for Sabbath observance,
rather than to Sabbath keeping itself. A complicated heresy apparently threatened the faith of those
early Christians. Besides Sabbath observance, it included, among other things, the worship of angels
and various ascetic practices (see Colossians 2:18, 21). When Paul mentioned the Sabbath, he had in
mind the kind of Sabbath observance involved in this false religious system, not Sabbath observance as
such. Besides, one text cannot support an entire religion. There needs to be sufficient evidence to back
up this doctrine with other texts in the Bible, of which a true foundation is met. There are other texts,
such as in Romans where we shouldn't judge people on what day they worship, but again, we shouldn't
judge anyone, period. Also, there are texts that talk about the sabbaths. This should not be mistaken
with the weekly, regular seventh-day Sabbath. These Sabbaths are mentioned in Deuteronomy 16:16,
and were done away with at the cross because they were part of the Ceremonial Laws, which I will
explain later in this letter.
So, where did the change of the seventh-day Sabbath observance to Sunday take place? Look toward
history to find that answer. I will talk more about that later in this letter. I would like to first talk about
the Commandments, and how many people believe that the 10 Commandments have been done away
with at the cross.
The Law of God
Romans 4:15 - I believe we are still under the 10 Commandments, the very Law that God gave to us
upon Mount Sinai, written by His very own hands, the only part of the Bible given to us directly from
God by hand, inscribed upon stone, which are still in the Ark of the Covenant. When I talk about this
issue, I want you to know that I am not a legalist. We are saved by the grace of God, of Christ coming
down to save us from our sins upon the cross. I am a sinner just as you are. I choose to keep the 10
Commandments because I love God (John 14:15). I believe we are still under the Law that God gave
to us, the 10 Commandments. I want you to consider something. Without the Law, there would be no
sin, because sin is the transgression of the Law. This is what this text is talking about. This Law cannot
solve the problem of sin, only Jesus can with His sacrifice upon the cross, but the Law can point out to
us what sin is, what is right and wrong.
Luke 16:17 - I think this passage is pretty straight forward. There is no chance that anything will ever
change from the Law of God by God's authority. Whoever does change this Law does not have the
authority from God, and will be held accountable for that on Judgement Day.
Psalms 111:7-8 - I think this is fitting. His commands are dependable and sure and His promises and
commands are forever because they were given in all truth and honesty.
Romans 7:12 - God is holy, therefore His Commandments are holy, just, and good. I believe this is
referring to the 10 Commandments.
Matthew 5:17-19 - This is a key text. Christ did not come down to this earth to do away with the Law
and the Prophets, which are the 10 Commandments. Christ is the embodiment of their teachings.
These teachings have never changed, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, and they will
never change, anymore than heaven and earth will disappear until God's will is accomplished. Christ
only fulfilled it, not did away with these Laws. I will talk a little later about another set of laws, the
Ceremonial Laws, which I believe were the laws that were done away with at the cross.
James 2:10, 11 - If you break one Law, you are guilty of breaking them all. I believe these Laws are
still the 10 Commandments. If I broke one, I would be guilty of breaking them all. But again, I keep
these laws because I love God and want to obey Him, to show my loyalty to Him.
Matthew 22:36-40 - I believe Jesus summarized the 10 Commandments here when He said to love
God with all your heart, soul, and mind and then to love your neighbor as yourself. I want to point
something out. I believe the 10 Commandments are the Commandments of Love. Why? Look at the
first four Commandments. What do they suggest? Don't they suggest our love for God? Now, look a
the last six Commandments. Don't they show our love for our neighbor? Isn't this the whole basis of
Love? I believe so. You can say you love God, but ask yourself, do you really love Him? Now, I'm
not questioning you and your love for God. That is between you and the Lord. But, how would you or
could you show your love for Him? I believe it is by keeping and obeying God's Commandments, not
by your own power, but by God's power!
1 John 5:1-3 - I agree with these texts whole-heartedly and am trying to focus upon this. His
Commandments are not burdensome. They are not done away with. They live, even on today.
Remember that when God blesses something, how long is it blessed? Forever.
1 John 2:3-6 - Again, Amen! We know we are on the right path when we can follow God's plan for
us. The Law is like a mirror. We can see ourselves and where we are in how we are keeping it.
Revelation 14:12 - It all comes down to loyalty to God. Do we choose to keep God's Commandments
or not?
I would like to focus now on another set of laws, which I believe were done away with at the cross by
contrasting them with the 10 Commandments, hoping that you will see a broader picture. These laws
are the Ceremonial Laws or Mosaic Laws. Before going into this, I want you to see where I am
coming at first. Christ is our sacrifice, our lamb to take our places, to die on the cross for our sins.
There needed to be an unblemished lamb. This lamb was Jesus. Now, in the Old Testament, what did
the children of Israel do to take away their sins? They took their unblemished lamb to the Sanctuary,
where it was sacrificed. This was part of the Ceremonial Laws, or the Law of Moses. Jesus replaced
this when He died on the cross for our sins. We no longer have to do this. This is what I believe Jesus
meant. Below, if you go down from the first one in each section, this is where you can see the real
contrast. For example, read the first one of the 10 Commandments, then read the first one of the
Ceremonial Law, etc.
Contrast of the 10 Commandments and the Ceremonial Laws
James 2:8-12 - The 10 Commandments, or the Moral Law, is called the Royal Law of Liberty.
Deuteronomy 4:12 - Spoken by God.
Exodus 24:12; 31:18 - Written by God on stone.
Hebrews 9:4; Exodus 40:20 - Placed in the Ark of the Covenant.
Psalm 111:7, 8 - To stand forever.
Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 - Gives the knowledge of sin.
1 John 5:3 - Not grievous.
James 2:10-12 - Judges all men.
Romans 7:14 - Spiritual
Now, contrast this with the Ritual or Ceremonial Law:
Ephesians 2:15 - Called Law . . . contained in ordinances.
Leviticus 1:1-3 - Spoken by Moses.
2 Chronicles 35:12 - Written by Moses in book.
Deuteronomy 31:24-26 - Placed in the side of the ark.
Colossians 2:14-17 - Ended at the cross.
Galatians 3:19 - Was given because of sin.
Colossians 2:14-17 - Contrary to us.
Colossians 2:14-17 - Judges no man.
Hebrews 9:10 - Carnal.
A lot of people, when they read Colossians 2:14-17, they think the 10 Commandments are done away
with a the cross and we have a new set of laws in our heart. Then what are these new laws? Many
people will quote the laws that Jesus gave to the rich, young ruler in Luke 18:20. But note that Jesus
quoted from the 10 Commandments, "You know the commandments . . . " (NIV) and Jesus quoted a
few of them, such as the love for neighbor. So what about the first four Commandments, of our love
for God? No, I believe we are still under the same 10 Commandments, including our love for God
from the first four Commandments. It is these same 10 Commandments that are within our heart, if we
truly love God with all our heart, soul, and mind.
Now I believe that there will be Christians in heaven who have accepted Christ and love Him and have
never kept the Seventh-day Sabbath. Those are the Christians that have not heard the message of the
importance of worshipping on the Seventh-day Sabbath. I am concerned, however, of those who have
heard of the Seventh-day Sabbath and its importance and have willingly rejected it. They have chosen
to conform to the world and worship on a day that is not Biblical and rather, created by man. Read
Luke 24. The entire chapter is good. It even mentions about the Sabbath at the end of age (Luke
24:20).
Iím well aware of the famous text, John 3:16. It is a great verse and Iím sure we all know it. I believe it
too. I believe there is more to just believing in Christ though. Remember the devil believes in Christ
too. Will he be in heaven? I believe he wonít. Just because you believe in Christ doesnít mean you will
be in heaven necessarily. Yes, Jesus died for us and paid the price so we could be saved through His
Grace, and I thank Him for that. I also believe that we must maintain that personal relationship with
Him. How would Jesus feel if we no longer prayed to Him or talked to Him or studied His Bible
diligently? I believe it takes more than just believing. I believe we need to have that personal
relationship with Christ and always make Him the center of our lives in everything we do. Everything
will come as a result of our love and faith in Him, as well as keeping the Commandments of God (John
14:15), founded upon love, the very basis of Christís character. Everything we do or say is showing
our relationship of Christ. That is why we as Christians must uphold our faith and be an example to
others. Let us glorify Him! Christ loves us, I love Him too. Do you?
I'm sure you are wondering how or why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The
Catholic Church changed it. By whose authority? Surely not from the Bible or by God. I would like to
share with you a few quotes I found. I did not say them, but I am taking them from other sources.
Quotes are below each quote.
Catholic Church's Admission of Changing the Sabbath
"Q. What is the Third Commandment?
A.The third Commandment is: Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
Q.Which is the Sabbath day?
A.Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q.Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A.We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity
from Saturday to Sunday."
The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine. (1951 printing), page 50.
"Q. How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A.By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore
they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts
commanded by the same church."
Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine. 1833, page 58.
"You will tell men that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been
changed to Sunday. Changed! But by whom? Who has the authority to change an express
commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, 'Thou shalt keep holy the seventh
day' who shall dare to say, nay, thou mayest work and do all manner of worldly business on the
seventh day, but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead? This is a most important decision which
I know not how you can answer. You are a protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the
Bible only; and yet, in so important a matter as the observance of one day in seven as a holy day, you
go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that which He has
commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the ten commandments; you believe
the other nine are still binding; who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent
with your own principle, if you really follow the Bible and the Bible only, you ought to be able to
produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered."
Library of Christian Doctrine; Burns and Oates, pp. 3-4, London.
You will also find attached to this letter an interesting letter that I hope you will read. I encourage you
to look it up and check its validity. I also encourage you to read up on your history and find the facts of
how and why it was changed if you are interested. It may surprise you and upset you at the same time.
It is a choice that I leave up to you. You can choose your loyalty to God or man, by choosing the day
you worship on, by the mark given to you in the last days. You may say it doesn't matter what day we
worship on. But think again and the consequences it brings to those who know the Truth, and willingly
reject the Truth and choose not to obey God's Commandments and keep the day God set aside for us,
rather to keep a day set aside and created by man. Which day holds much more significance to
worship? As for me, I choose to show my loyalty to God and love for God by keeping the
seventh-day Sabbath, Saturday, holy, the true Lord's Day. When it comes down in the final days of
judgement before Christ comes, if you were forced to keep Sunday holy or the seventh-day Sabbath
holy, a decision will have to be made. Which will it be? For God, or for man?
And now my brother, I leave the studies and decision up to you. As you study the Bible more, you will
become amazed at what you will find, wanting more, hungering for more, and you will find it. I
encourage you to read it and keep your heart open for the Holy Spirit. Take care and may God richly
bless you in your studies. I leave in peace. Amen!
Your brother in Christ,
Rodney
Below is the letter under the Blessing of the Catholic Church:
Thomaston, Georgia
May 22, 1934
Pope Pius XI
Rome, Italy
Dear Sir:
Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you changed the Seventh-day Sabbath
to the, so called, Christian Sunday: Identical with the first day of the week. If so when did you make
the change and by what authority?
Yours very truly,
(signed) J. L. Day
Reply:
THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
(The largest Catholic Magazine published in USA)
180 Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Illinois
(Under the blessing of Pope Pius XI)
Dear Sir,
Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to
draw your attention to the facts:
1.That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means
go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary
observe the Sunday, stultifies then in the eyes of every thinking man.
2.We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the
living Church, the authority of the Church as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by
Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the
Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to the Sunday. We frankly say,
ìYes the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance,
the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the
regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws.î
3.We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason
correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the
Protestant Churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there
is nothing in the Bible.
Yours very truly,
Name removed by Joshua |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 12:48 pm: | |
Dear Name-Removed-by-Joshua,
You wrote ^^I know many scholars say that
Jesus broke the seventh day.^^
But apparently you don't know that it was
neither the scholars of today nor the Jews of
old -- but John the Beloved Disciple -- who
wrote that Jesus broke the Sabbath (NIV John
5:17-18):
Jesus said to them, ^^"My Father is always at
his work to this very day, and I, too, am
working." For that reason the Jews tried all the
harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the
Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own
Father, making himself equal with God.^^
Read Scripture, Name-Removed-by-Joshua,
Scripture!
In Christ's time-unbounded Sabbath rest
(Hebrews 3&4),
Max of the Cross |
Dale
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 2:32 pm: | |
Dear Name-Removed-by-Joshua,
It would be nice to correspond with you directly, but hopefully Joshua will pass along my comments.
I am currently working on a complete study of the Covenants and hope to post it in the near future. It will offer an opposing view to most of what you have argued. Interestingly, you keep claiming that salvation is by grace, but...
It is so wonderful to now trust completely in my Savior and to have eliminated the "buts" from my life.
Please know that for 50 years of my life I believed just as you do, probably just as vehemently. I did not change my view point to suit myself, contrary to what you would like to believe. My point of view was changed by opening my Bible and carefully studying what was being said, COMPLETELY IN IT'S CONTEXT, rather than trying to splice texts together from all over the Bible in order to make them fit a pre-conceived belief, often extra biblical (EGW). It was done through careful prayer and an asking for the leading of the Holy Spirit.
For the sake of brevity, I would like to respond to just one statement that you made as an example of what I feel is an error in your methodology and interpretation.
YOU WROTE UNDER....
"Contrast of the 10 Commandments and the Ceremonial Laws"
James 2:8-12 - The 10 Commandments, or the Moral Law, is called the Royal Law of Liberty."
Name Removed by Joshua,
Please read the entire chapter of James 2. It is all about how we treat our fellow man and discriminate based on appearances. The royal law of liberty is NOT the 10 commandment law.
"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin and are convinced of the law as transgressors" James 2:8,9 KJV
"If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself' you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as law breakers." James 2:8,9 NIV
So what is the "Royal Law"? According to James, it is his stated law quoted from Leviticus 19:18. Guess what? It is not a part of the ten commandment law, rather it is a part of the Book of the Law, placed next to the Ark of the Covenant, which included all of the so called ceremonial laws that you like to refer to as having been fulfilled at the cross, but deny that the 10 commandments were likewise fulfilled at the cross. Have you stopped to think about the fact that there are moral, ceremonial and civil aspects to both the 10 commandment law and the "expanded book" of the law? They are all one package.
In Matthew and again in John, Jesus quoted what He called the two greatest commandments. They are found not within the Ten Commandments but within the book of the law (Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18).
James goes on in chapter 2 to quote some of the ten commandments, stating that if you break any one you have broken all. The point being made is that even if you can keep your little list of 10 Commandments, you can still break the "Royal Law" and thus be a law breaker. The royal law encompasses so much more than the 10 Commandments for it is the law of love, the true expression of the nature of God.
I sincerely believe that adhering (or better stated, attempting unsuccessfully to adhere) to a check off list of 10 commandments is the easy way out. We are held to a much higher standard when we accept the "Royal Law" which is based on moral principal, not a 10 point check list..
My expression of love and obedience to my God is based on the words of Jesus:
"A new command I give you; Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34.
"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, foe he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments 'do not commit adultery', 'do not murder', 'do not steal', do not covet', and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule? 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. Love does no harm to its neighbor, Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:8-10
Your neighbor in love,
Dale |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 6:42 pm: | |
Dale, thank you for that wonderful explanation. It has been such a wonderful thing for me to discover that James is really a book of grace, not of law as I had grown up believing.
I will never forget studying James in our women's Bible study group at Trinity Church last year and discovering exactly what you point out above: the royal law to which James refers is the law stated in Leviticus 19:18.
Jesus' new command to us, as you stated, is even more demanding than the levitical royal law; it asks us to love one another AS HE LOVED US. We simply cannot do that without the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Jesus loved us to the point of dying for us; we're incapable of that kind of devotion. Only with God in us can we hope to love one another as he loves us. And then the love we bear is HIS love, not ours!
I praise God that if we want to know what is True, He is faithful to reveal it to us!
Colleen |
Cindy
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 8:57 pm: | |
Dale, Yes, I concur with Colleen... Thank-you for the clarity expressed in your post.
It really is hard for those who have been indoctrinated by EGW's views of interpreting Scripture to be able to see it in a different light.
Only the Holy Spirit can lift the veil from their eyes to see how the Old Covenant Law and Prophets point to and find their fulfillment in CHRIST!
The Old Testament does not have EQUAL footing as the New in regards to church doctrine and practice...
There is a progression of revelation; the shadows and types and limited instructions finding their ultimate goal in the Royal Law of Liberty... embodied in Jesus' life, death, and resurrection FOR me!
Grace always,
Cindy |
Darrell
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2000 - 9:01 am: | |
Cindy, your thought: "The Old Testament does not have EQUAL footing as the New in regards to church doctrine and practice... ", triggered a realization in me. The lesser light to lead to the greater light must logically come before the greater light, so the Old Testament must be the true lesser light. It does not make sense to be given a lesser light (EGW) when the greater light (Jesus) is already here.
Dale, I also appreciate your thoughts on the Royal Law. |
Cindy
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2000 - 4:10 pm: | |
Darrell, Hi! So true about not needing the lesser light (EGW) when the Greater Light of the World has shown forth! I remember someone said once here, (Max?) "do we need a flashlight to find the Sun /(SON!)"?
Also, even the great John the Baptists' work was termed less in comparison to those who lived in the reality of "the kingdom of God" begun and accomplished in JESUS' ministry! (Luke 7:28)
I love Colossians' description of Christ...
"in EVERYTHING He might have the SUPREMACY";
"the WORD of GOD in its' FULLNESS";
"the MYSTERY that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is NOW DISCLOSED"...
CHRIST, in whom are hidden ALL the treasures of WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE";
"the HEAD OVER EVERY POWER AND AUTHORITY!"
Aren't those great?!
Grace always,
Cindy |
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