| Author | Message | ||
| Lynn W |
Doctortazz (if you're still with us), correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear you saying at least 5 things: 1) You seem to be opposed to people leaving the church for relational reasons, yet your reasons for joining & staying seem to be primarily relational - "I found a wonderful group of people, an active youth group, and a presentation of Christ and the Bible that I never knew existed...for the most part, the people I have encountered have been wonderful." 2) we should not judge a religion by our experiences in the church. 3) we should not judge a religion by the fruit (lifestyle) of the people. 4) we should not judge a religion by its doctrines. 5) we should not judge a religion by the lifestyle or teachings of its prophet. So I have some questions of my own: 1) By what criteria should we judge (whether a church is right or wrong, whether to stay or leave)? 2) Since these are all the very criteria which the SDA church devotes its seminars, crusades, etc. to warning people to judge other churces by (especially Catholic), then isn't this a double standard? 3) How do you define moving on (from being a former)? Do you define it as moving away from all concern for Adventism, or as moving back into it - neither is of which is an option for ex-SDAs with SDA loved ones? 4) If you are aware of EGW's plagerism, then how can you defend her deliberate deceit? 5) If you are "a Seventh-day Adventist who is happy and at peace", then I must ask, peace at what price? You can have peace in literally any church - so long as you go along. To the people here, truth is more important than peace. 6) You say Adventists "are just another group of human beings who are learning." And when they learn the truth, what do you think they should do with it? Ignore it for the sake of peace, as most do? Or go where the truth is taught? 7) "The concept of the Adventist Church being 'the remnant church' sticks in [your] craw!" One of the chief accusations the SDA church hurls at the Catholic Church is their teaching of being the only true Church. Can you explain the difference between the SDA claim & the Catholic claim? I'm praying you will seriously consider these questions & take them to God. It's not important that you answer them for me, but for yourself. Hope to hear more from you. | ||
| Ernie |
Dr. Tazz: Great to have the opportunity to share my experience with you. I am a former SDA minister whom God called out of the SDA Church. I was a very happy SDA minister until I discovered many errors in the historiography of the Church regarding Sabbath and Sunday. The Church teaches that Sunday is the invention of the RCC and Emperor Constantine. Nothing farther from the truth. Sunday as a day worship-in honor of the Lord's resurrection-began early in the history of the Christian Church, to the extent that by the year 107 AD it was considered the "Lord's own day." When I confronted those in authority with these and other matters, the advise was to keep quite. However, God dealt with me and took me out of Adventism. I do not have anything against the Adventist Church, it is a question of truth and error. As soon as I discovered how mistaken the Church was in relationship to the Sabbath and Sunday, I began a search that led to see other grave errors such as: the Investigative Judgement, EGW as a prophet, the SDA Church as the Remnant Church, the eschatological schemes, etc. God, by His Spirit has been leading me away from Adventism. I agree with Colleen, I am a Christian. If you want me to say that I am a former Adventist, I will agree with it; I have nothing to be ashamed of. It breaks my heart to know that as a pastor I baptised many good Christians into a Church that is not fully Christian. However, I know many good Christians within the SDA Church. People who God one day will bring to the correct understanding of the New Testament message. I just want to warn you that Adventism has been founded on deception, and deception does not come from God. Dr. Tazz, just think for a moment. Why a person with a bright future in the SDA Church, would abandon everything and begin from zero? Only for the Truth. It has not been easy, but God has been faithful. May God help you to see what so many others | ||
| Plain Patti |
Hi, Lynn, I would like to respond to your post. In fact, I think I will. You wrote: I will answer the 2nd Q first. To become a member, one is required to verbally & publicly agree to the 27FD and to sign their name claiming that they agree to the 13 statement on the baptismal cert. which includes agreement to the 27FD. As to the first, so far the livestyle & beliefs of every SDA I've met are in conflict with the 27FD. Whenever I've asked them about this, without exception, everyone has given me one of 3 answers: a) I was too young to understand what I was signing. b) I didn't actually read it before I signed it. or c) I didn't believe in it when I signed it. I'd be curious to know which catagory each one here falls into. Patti: I was baptized when I was 7. Need I say more? I wanted to be baptized because my friends were getting baptized; no one seemed to have a problem with it. (Nor do I where I stand now; but since SDAs believe a person should reach the age of "accountability" before baptism, this seems a bit young.) When I was a young mother, I was blessed with a pastor that preached salvation by grace alone. That is TRULY a blessing in the SDA church. He was a friend of Des Ford's, and we actually got to read Dr. Ford's answer to Glacier View before it happened. Anyway, when I understood that baptism was not a sign of my acceptance of God, but of HIS acceptance of ME, I asked our pastor to rebaptize me. On one condition. NO 27FD. I wanted only to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because I believed God had accepted me in Jesus. My pastor agreed to do this. The funny thing is that, I am sure many people in the congregation wondered what horrible thing I had done that I needed rebaptism! There was no way they could understand, and I realized it. And so I said nothing. Patti | ||
| Cas |
Ernie, Your post is very well said, sad the SDA Church has lost so many bright lights. Regarding your comments of the Sabbath Sunday issue, I would like to do some reading on this subject. Where do you recommend I start? I would like to find info. from History accounts and the claim of SDA's belief that the Pope changed the day. Thanks and God Bless. | ||
| Allenette |
well, Patti, I am a PK who was baptized because it was time for me to be baptized. I NEVER asked to be, I was the pastor's daughter and was to be an example to others. if I signed any paperwork, I really doubt it was 'legally binding' (gggg) SDAjoke. End of story. | ||
| Lynn W |
Cas: "Where do you recommend I start?" May I recommend Romans 14, Col. 2, Galatians, and most all II Cor. 3. | ||
| Lydell |
Good recommendation Lynn. But you know, it seems to me that until we can see why we need to push aside the SDA teachings and start fresh, I don't think we are able to grasp the truths that are there! It seems we continue to read them through the SDA glasses of, "yes but...." Cas, for a solid understanding of the whole issue behind the controversy between sabbath and sunday, which is law vs. grace, go read through the stuff at this address: www.gospeloutreach.com/brin.html After all, you already know what the SDA's say. The info on that address will give you a new starting point for examination. Then go back and read all those verse that Lynn recommended again. I believe you will suddenly find the brilliant light of truth leaping out at you in a way that can't be ignored. And you will likely find that lots of other passages come to mind that suddenly fall into place without the SDA twisting to make them fit. |
