| Author |
Message |
Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 12:18 pm: |     |
BMorgan,
I cannot seem to find your email address (still!).
Would please you write me?
Thanks,
Patti |
Bmorgan
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 5:00 pm: | |
Hi Patti,
Sorry for ignoring your message. I appreciate your trying to make contact with me.
I know we are neighbors here in Texas.I have been thinking it would be a good idea to start a fellowship like the one in CA. Recently, I met two families who became christians since leaving Adventism.
I will try writing you and give more details about some ideas I have in mind. However, in case I take too long to reach you, here is my address: goslyn@juno.com.
By the way, thank you for your studies and presentation of the gospel. Your thoughts align closely with my interpretation of scripture. I appreciate your clear sounding tone.
I know it is not your intent to win an argument (hope I am right) or engage in a Bible "ping pong" match, so maybe it is time to say "enough already." None of us wants our good to be spoken off as evil.
We all grow at different rate. As recent as two months ago I would not be able to hear, understand or appreciate your presentation. It is like magic. A light bulb went on in my head when I began studying Romans. Resting completely in Jesus the author and finisher of my faith is a reality. Christ is our All in All.
I am suggesting you exercise silence on the matter, since it is serving no good purpose but endless debate and battle of minds. Blessed are the Meek-ones with strength under control. Just my humble opinion.
May the grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
BMorgan
In Christ Alone, |
Dan_2
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 6:33 pm: | |
Just wondering, as I'm new to this site; anyone else other than me who is a former SDA? If so, how are you doing with your move away from that denomination? --Dan |
Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 7:16 pm: | |
Most of us are, Dan.
I left over 20 years ago because I was convinced that most of the doctrine of SDAism were contradictory to the Gospel.
I worship freely in the mainstream churches. I have trouble giving my allegiance to another denomination anymore because of having been subject to the SDA church for most of my life, but that does not stop me from worshipping with those of all denominations who find their perfect salvation in Jesus Christ alone.
Grace and peace,
Patti |
Dale
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 7:19 pm: | |
Hi Dan,
Count me in as a former SDA. I left the church last February. I was a 4th generation SDA on one side of the family and 3rd generation on the other. I left because of the joy I found in the true gospel of salvation in Christ alone and the assurance of eternal life. It was then that I realized the incompatability with EGW and the fundamental doctrines of the church. My "story" is on this site, so I will not bore everyone with the details.
It is such a joy to truly be free in Christ. Although many of my SDA friends don't understand and/or shun me now, I have wonderful support from others and from Grace Place where I worship. Former SDA pastor Clay Peck is our senior pastor and has been a wonderful teacher and mentor.
Welcome to the site!
In Christ Alone,
Dale |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 7:54 pm: | |
Greetings Dan_2!
3rd generation SDA. Grade school, high
school, college and university to M.Div. at AU
all SDA. Post-university education non-SDA.
Employed as SDA church professional (editor)
18 years. Baptized member 35 years. Left
because rejected EGW as prophet, 1844 and
entire "distinctive" sanctuary teaching,
"remnant" heresy, "mark of beast = Sunday
worship" heresy, Sabbath-keeping
requirement, and hierarchical corruption.
Currently member of Presbyterian church, but
attend Trinity Evangelical Free church. Doing
fine.
Wecome to FAF! |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 8:40 pm: | |
Well Dan,
I don't know if I count as a former as I was not allowed to be baptized into the sda Church. But I will say that I was indoctrinated very quickly by books written by egw and listening to 3abn daily, taking notes. I currently have 4 people who are sdas and 1 of them I will say is a friend. The other 3 believe I'm a heretic and tell me so. There is 1 that I study with weekly (that was today) and she is pretty upset at me for being so stubborn but I'm assured by her that "the scales will fall off of my eyes." Today has been quite a day, my brain is full of sda doctrine vs truth. Although I read the Bible and know it is the Truth, I can say that ridding the doctrines taught to me by sdas is not easy. Today was one of those days where I could have used a friend near me to hold me up while staggering under the weight of Scriptures given me that 'seemed to make sense in the sda doctrine'. If this doesn't make sense, it's no wonder as I am in a state of confusion and desperately need to read this forum over and over and over to get the doctrines of the sda put in perspective so I can relate what happened today in our study.
Oh brother, I know the difficulty.
Trust in God.
Peace to you Dan and keep ahold of the Truth.
God Bless you,
Denise (the Berean) |
Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 8:49 pm: | |
You are not alone, Denise.
drpatti@msn.com |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 10:55 pm: | |
Hi, Dan 2. Yes, I'm thrilled to say I discovered that Jesus has already secured my salvation, and I can't begin to express how wonderful it is to walk in the light instead of the darkness of deception! Richard's and my story is posted under "Stories" on this site, so you can read about our journey there.
Welcome to FAF!
Colleen |
Lorinc
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 4:46 am: | |
Hi, Dan_2, and welcome!
I'm an "almost-former" Adventist. I figure I'll post my full "story" when I've become a *true* Former Adventist -- which shouldn't be too long. For now, my name is still on the books.
In brief: I became a Christian in 1988, and an SDA in 1989. I never fully bought into Ellen White or the whole 1844 thing, but kind of slid my doubts to the back of my mind, figuring that, as my Pastor said, the "knowledge that comes with time" would answer my questions. Well, it didn't. The questions got worse. I cringed every time EGW would be quoted from the pulpit with the same authority as scripture. I cringed in Sabbath School when members would use EGW quotes to overrule and squelch discussion of a Bible passage. I cringed when a churchmember rebuked the Pastor during prayer meeting, for daring to ask us to stand and pray (for after all, as EGW fans know, kneeling is the "only proper posture for prayer"). I cringed when I thought, "Why is my religious experience involving so much cringing?!" Trouble is, I thought I was the only one!
Then, a couple of years ago, I discovered some various web-based resources, like www.ellenwhite.org and www.sdaoutreach.org, and I found out, like Elijah long ago, Hey, God has thousands of others who believe this, too -- I'm not alone! What I read really solidified and confirmed my understanding.
During the same couple of years, the "official" SDA church has also moved toward an even more conservative position; witness the recent GC resolution to institute annual Ellen White "feast days" and to emphasize her *even more* to the church members, especially the youth. That resolution was my cue for the "I'm OUTTA here!" process.
Right now, I'm rejoicing as I rediscover the simplicity of the Gospel that I originally heard and accepted! However, my joy is tempered by the stress and difficulties that arise when you make a huge theological transition, but your spouse doesn't. It's really scary how Adventism seems to incline a member's self-identity to revolve around being "in the church" rather than "in Christ." Beyond that, I don't want to say at this point. Any and all prayers are gratefully appreciated...
Bottom Line: The "journey out" is bumpy, but the goal is well worth it! :-)
Rejoicing in God's Grace,
Lorin |
Cindy
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 6:48 am: | |
Good Morning All,
I, too, know of the sinking, "cringing" feeling when certain doctrines are presented...especially to those who are studying for baptism! It was very hard to explain the necessity of believing, and acting on, these beliefs if you wanted to be in the "True Church...".
So MANY doctrines to hurdle!
EGW's continuing authority, 1844 investigative judgement, tithing, unclean meats, smoking, jewelry, Sabbath work issues, etc. etc. etc.! ...
MANY in the church are there because they believe in the Sabbath as being the "final test" issue, and so, even though they beleive in Jesus, they feel they have found the church with "the TRUTH".
The "spiritual culture" and friendships they have seem to satisfy most; so that many do not question or study these variant doctrines. They are content in their social church scene. And yes, one's identity can be more of being "in the church" rather than "in Christ."
I am so grateful to realize the SIMPLICITY and the SANITY of the Gospel! Christ crucified FOR ME! is enough...
The message of the Cross, so all-sufficient and free! is ENOUGH to bring unbelievers to a saving knowledge of "the Truth".
It just gets so convoluted when all those other doctrines must be added! (We even had an evangelist 3 years ago who had a sermon specifically against wearing wedding rings and saying "gosh" and "darn". I guess he was hitting both jewelry and swearing in one sermon!)
Perhaps someday I can post more of my personal, kind of complicated, story; but for now...I have come to realize and rejoice in the certainty!! that knowing and being in "the TRUTH" is acepting and knowing a Person!.. JESUS!!!
Grace always,
Cindy |
Shereen
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 6:55 am: | |
Hi Dan,
I am a formeradventist although I do believe my name is still on the books. I was baptised in 77 but have had a rough rollercoaster ride with the adventists. I haven't been to church in a while but find that I am so indoctrinated that I am having a real hard time leaving the belief system behind. I am studying all different areas but my biggest problem is this: It feels toooooo good to have the adventism off my shoulders. It feels to freeing to leave all that legalism behind me. It is a huge sigh of relief to not worry about the sabbath or being lost. All this relief makes me feel that maybe I stepped to the wrong side. Maybe, as my adventist friends say, satan has stopped bothering me because I am doing what he wants me to do. The idea of ever going back to adventism is repugnant but I am afraid that will change. I have to really belief all that I am reading. I am asking God to lead me in my discoveries and to strengthen my belief. It really is a struggle. It would help alot if I could just fellowship in real life. I want to find a good group of ppl to fellowship with but so many have religion at heart and not christianity. Oh well, I guess I am not the only one to struggle and will not be the last. I am really afraid though that Jesus will come and my family and myself will lose out. I sure hope this is the right path :) |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 9:37 am: | |
Hi Dan,
I left the SDA church in 1979 at the age of 23. I was born into a SDA home, went to SDA schools, etc. I heard the true Gospel of God's saving grace as a senior in Academy and spent the next 6 years studying my way out of SDAism.
For the last two years of my journey out of SDAism I attended the SDA church on Saturday and a wonderful Baptist (not that all Baptist churches are wonderful) church on Sunday. The Gospel was so clearly preached on Sunday and the contrast with the strange, cultic messages I was hearing on Saturday became more and more clear.
I joined the Baptist church finally and then asked my name be romoved from the SDA church. Several years later I learned the SDAs had not removed my name. I learned this when they sent me a letter requesting I start mailing in my tithe and ingathering goal. I had not set foot in a SDA church for years, was actively involved in another church but they still wanted my money :)
I went through some ups and downs over the years but have never regretted following the Lord out of that denomination.
Fellowship with Christians outside SDAism has been a vital part of my growth since leaving SDAism. I could relate many examples but will not at this time.
A great opprtunity for fellowship with other Christians in an open, loving, non-sectarian setting is the many interdenominational Bible studies. I was part of BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) for about 7 years. It was an all men's group of about 300 men meeting every Monday night following an academic calender (same breaks as schools, summer off, spring break, Christmas break, etc.). There were usally 16-18 different denominations represented there and commentaries, quoting denominatioanl distinctives, pastors, etc. is not allowed during the study, the Bible only is the source material.
"BSF" is an international Bible study group with groups meeting all over the US and many other countries. BSF has men and women's groups but they usually meet separately. "Precepts" is a similar group.
The great thing about these groups for a former or transitioning SDA is the fact that they meet during the week (in case going to church on Sunday still makes you feel weird), ie, my men's group on Monday night and my wife's women's group on Tuesday morning. The fact that many denominations are represented and they really do not like you to mention your denomination at all, again this is a nice place for one with a SDA background who may be experiencing a bit of an identy crisis. It makes you focus on simply being a Christian and helps you gain a strong, positive identity based on your connection to Christ and the fellowship of other true believers, rather than denominational identity. You come there to learn and fellowship, not prove anything or agree to a creed, etc. The Bible study is intense, however, and I learned alot there.
Even a former SDA pastor could find a great source of Christian fellowship in such a setting. You'd have the opportunity to "network" with believers who might help you get plugged into a new ministry opportunity, also.
By the way "denominational" employment is not the only way to have a fulltime ministry. We belonged to a nondenominational Bible church which started as a Monday night Bible study in the home of a Dallas Theological Seminary grad. He started with 6 families (we were not part of that beginning) meeting on Monday night for Bible study while attending another church on Sunday. That is now a church of about 1500 members with it's own buildings, etc. They still have no denominational connections or support but are a thriving, growing church.
A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone,
Bill Thompson |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:06 am: | |
Dan,
One additional thought for former or transitioning SDA ministers. I know you said you have made the transition and may have many suggestions better than mine, but his thought just came to mind.
After 7 years in a nondenominational "Bible church", we joined an independant Baptist church about 2 1/2 years ago. Our pastor always has at least one "intern" following him around, being mentored by him and eventually we see these men ordained and start churches of their own or take an open position at a church needing a pastor. These are usually young men but recently he has had a 50 something year old, former Nazareen evangelists as an intern. He is a wonderful man and we all love him, our pastor included, I am not sure what the future holds for him, but this seems to me to be a good way to transition.
There are some very successful former SDA pastors such as Mark Martin and others who might love to take a transitioning SDA misister in as an intern in their large church and help you get plugged into another minstry opportunity long term. I'd guess that men like Mark Martin, Richard Fredricks, Caly Peck, might really be blessed by the opportuntiy to minister to transitioning SDA pastors in this way. Other part time employment might be needed during the "internship" but it is a way to continue to follow God's call to preach the Gospel, if you feel He has truly called you to this purpose.
I imagine there are Pastors of nondenominational fellowships or independant fellowships with no former SDA ties who would also be happy to help in this way. They have connections which could help a former SDA pastor get plugged into a new ministry opportunity. Even though they are not part of a denominational structure they usually have close fellowship with many other ministers and churches and are aware of many minisrty openings and have the trust of these groups required for a needed recommendation. If you had served under them as an intern and even been ordained by such a man this could really open doors.
A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone,
Bill Thompson |
Jay
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 8:32 pm: | |
Hi, Dan.
Glad to have you on this forum. As you see from
these posts you are not alone. I, too, am a
former Adventist. Many of my family are still
devout SDAs, and I am grateful that some of them
really do express the Living Christ in their
lives. Adventism is almost like an ethnicity, and
so it can be painful to leave that identity. I am
fortunate in that I have not been ostracized by my
family. If anything, they are more loving and
solicitous, and I don't think their caring is
contingent on my coming back to "The Truth". But I
am seeing more and more that part of the Adventist
heritage is crushing legalism, emphasis on an
outwardly correct image, and spiritual pride
(this tends to divide Adventists from the
rest of Christ's body).
I have not been active in
an SDA church for about 15 years. Now I am a
member of a Presbyterian Church where the only
requirement for membership is to confess that
"Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour". My
still-SDA dad knows that their are problems in
Adventism and although I know that he would be
overjoyed if I became an active SDA again, he has
actually been very supportive of my attending the
Presbyterian Church. He says that he can see a
good difference in my life. The people and are
not all perfect, and I don't agree with some of
the distinctive historical doctrines of the
Presbyterianism but the light and life and joy of
Christ are felt in the Church. I wish I could say
that Adventism's hold on my is totally broken but
that would not be entirely true. I takes a long
time to divest oneself of the more objectionable
influences of Adventism. Six years ago, my
Presbyterian church held a class on "Cults". One
of the "cults" studied was Seventh-day Adventism.
At that time, I was greatly hurt and offended that
the church of my family was so maligned, being
placed in the same category as Jehova's Witnesses,
Mormons, Christian Science, Bahai's, etc. It is
with great reluctance that I have now sorrowfully
come - albeit digging in my heals - to the
conclusion that, at the very least, Seventh-day
Adventism contains highly cultic elements. The
centrally cultic element is the slavish deference
to Ellen White.
Dan, I wish you well and pray that your journey
away from Adventism is leading you toward a
fellowship of believers who elevate the Lord Jesus
and His gift of free grace.
Jay |
Cindy
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hi Jay,
Enjoyed your thoughts! I agree with your observation on Adventists... "I am grateful that some of them really do express the Living Christ in their lives."
I have found this to be true also; we recently moved from a really wonderful group of Adventist friends who were very kind and helpful when we were having some fairly serious problems...The support and love we were shown was greatly appreciated by us!
And yet, I think the doctrine of the Sabbath is so enmeshed in Adventist's psyche that it is really incomprehensible to them that you could reject this 4th commandment of God... and still think you are a a fully acceptable child of God!
And, in the final analysis, this assignment of us to "hell" is probably not the expression of the Living Christ! :-))
I know close Adventist friends and family members can have a harder time believing that we have apostacized from Christ! That's why it seems so important that we speak kindly, yet firmly, of the all-sufficiency of JESUS!
A "humble boldness" and confidence in the Gospel of Christ crucified for me!...totally final and complete!
To think that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabbath and our true REST is so hard for them to see. The veil is truly over their eyes because of living in old covenantal ways.
"But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because ONLY IN CHRIST is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil cover their hearts. But when ever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Freedom!.... (2 Corinthians 3)
"Now, we who have believed enter that REST..." (Hebrews 4)
Grace always,
Cindy |
Dan_2
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 9:38 am: | |
Wow, I was so moved to read all your responses to "how many out there are former Adventists?" I would like to print your responses that I know would help others in their journey. Is that "okay?"
What really impressed me were the honest, from the heart responses that every one of you wrote. I wish we could all meet in person, yet I know we will one day by the grace of God.
I liked Bill T. suggestions to help former SDA pastors. I visited with Mark Martin concerning this issue some time ago. He wants to get something going in this area.
Max, I was at the seminary from 84-86; close to your time?
Finally, for anyone around Adventism at that time, I was part of the "celebration" issue in Adventism, some years ago when my dad (Dave Snyder) and I were pastoring the New Life Celebration Church in Milwaukie, Oregon. We we meeting at New Hope Church in Portland, Oregon. It was a "wild time" as we were getting so much attention (not wanting it by the way) in the Adventist denomination. I look back at that time with a smile when I think of how God blessed us.
Anyway, thank you again for your responses. They touched my heart this morning in a significant way. And thank you for your warm welcome.
--Dan Snyder
PS If you know of anyone in the Portland, Oregon area that would like to get in touch with me, please give them my email address, dan@mtnparkchurch.org
PSS The video on Adventism that Mark Martin sells from his web site, has been very helpful to people I have given it to. |
Max
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 9:58 am: | |
Dan Snyder,
Blessings on you. I attended seminary at AU
65-66. Some of my profs, such as Earl Hilgert,
Ed Vick, Sakai Kubo, Ed Heppenstall, Harold
Weiss, were all forced out by "The Return of
the Legalists" in reaction to the "Questions on
Doctrine -- Martin Marty" attempt at reform.
Max Phillips |
Lydell
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:56 am: | |
Hey Dan! What a blessing to see you here on this site. The Lord used you and your dad to impact the lives of our family and two others. I only realized that fully recently! And we live way down here in the fer corner of southeast Alabama.
Back in the 80's we got totally sick of the whole SDA church and left the local congregation to meet as a home church with two friends and their kids. (That part was God's idea....the part that was ours was foolishly continuing to do so for 8 years when he had in mind it only lasting one or two. We're slow!)
A friend in the SDA church was trying to recruit us to go back to the church, I guess, and gave us some back issues of the Review one day. One of those had an article in it about the "celebration churches".
Now, I'm sure you remember the article was not at all what one would call complementary. But, you know, we read that article, then read it again more carefully. And for the life of us we couldn't understand what it was they were upset about. It sounded awesome to us!
They had mentioned the "Milwaukie" church specifically. We were desperate for good news. So I began making long distance phone calls to try to locate the church. You know...that lady in Milwaukie, Wisconsin certainly had a rather cold tone to her voice when she told me I must be looking for the church in Oregon! haha
I finally got to speak to your dad and we got sermon tapes from your services for many! months. They were like a breath of fresh air. You guys were on the same track of thinking that we were. It was so encouraging!
The Lord now has us planted as members of a local Vineyard congregation. And the Lord is constantly blessing us! I have only just recently realized that the Lord used your dad's comments in his sermons to begin teaching us about true worship. And worship is about the most awesome thing the Lord has taught us over the years since we left the SDA's.
So thanks very much for allowing the Lord to use you! |
Dan_2
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 4:41 pm: | |
Lyndall, thank you for your thoughtful email. I'm seeing my father tomorrow and will have him read your letter. So glad to hear that you are doing well now! I know how hard it is to leave Adventism. However, I also know how hard it is to "live" as an Adventist. I'm far from being bitter, nor do I spend my time trying to talk Adventist our of their church. I do know that web sites such as this and people such as the ones who contribute to this site, are making a difference! The web can be a "safe place" for Adventist who have doubts/questions.
And Max, I am know most of your former professors well (or did know well). You still have a lot to offer theologically from what I have read of your emails. God has given you a special gift of communicating the truth not only clearly, but with a spirit of Christ.
I'll check in next week to see "what's up" with everyone here. --Dan Snyder |
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