| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 967 Registered: 8-2008 |
Like me, I suspect most "formers" here were taught at some point that Easter Eggs derived from pagan fertility rituals that Catholics adopted at some point in the past. The truth couldn't be more wrong. As this post on one political forum explains: I found this very interesting and informative. I had heard something like this before. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2060 Registered: 6-2006  |
Thanks Brent ~ that was interesting. I enjoy sharing stuff like that with my kids during the holidays. St. Nicholas (model for Santa Claus) was a real person, as well as St. Patrick (St. Patrick's Day), who both spread the gospel in the face of adversity. Why not turn these holidays back to Jesus instead of griping about it like I've seen people do. Preaching that these holidays are pagan only perpetuates (unnecessary) guilt as well as ultimately discouraging people from celebrating our Savior. By no means is celebrating these holidays mandatory, but I've always been puzzled by Christians who take it upon themselves to discourage other believers from doing it.  Leigh Anne p.s. Even if there were pagan roots to some of our traditions, it still doesn't mean we can't turn them around to give God glory. Pagan does not equal evil. The national anthem was originally a drinking song. Does that mean every time we sing it we're celebrating alchohol? | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 969 Registered: 8-2008 |
As were probably half our hymnal books. Luther was notorious for this, which I consider a point in his favor. Of course, as a German who loved his beer, he no doubt knew several good drinking songs. (Message edited by bskillet on April 05, 2012) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2062 Registered: 6-2006 |
Yeah, well. What's that old saying? When in Germany, do as the Germans do... As much as I hate the flavor, I don't believe beer is evil either. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7859 Registered: 9-2006  |
We love giving Easter baskets to our grandkids, gottem in the trunk right now...er..I think grandma just likes to give to the grandkids period! We got a year old great grandkid and he'll be sure to get a egg hunt in the back yard Saturday, also we celebrate my oldest sons Birthday Saturday, but no booze. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1870 Registered: 12-2007  |
Sounds like a great day River nothing better than sharing a day of fun with children + grandchildren <3 | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2532 Registered: 7-2007 |
Bskillet; curious how Christians came up with that tradition of fasting all week long before Resurrection Sonday. It must have been a Gentile thing that was brought in. The reason being that Jesus told His disciples at the Passover Seder that He was conducting when He drank the third cup; "This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me" (1st Corinthians 11:25), so obviously the Jewish Christians were going to continue celebrating the Passover Seder. (That cup was the third cup which was called the "cup of redemption." There were four cups total in the Passover Seder. Jesus didn't drink the last one which is the "cup of praise." Jesus will drink that cup with us in Heaven! BTW, the first cup was the "cup of sanctification," the second is the "cup of deliverance," the third, as I already mentioned, is the "cup of redemption" and the fourth, the "cup of praise." Now, I'm not telling people that they SHOULD do anything in order to get/stay saved. No, no, no! Salvation is a Free Gift! I'm just saying how Godly the God given traditions are! I envy the Jewish Christians with their Godly feasts and traditions. Those of us who are Gentiles only have those created symbols of fertility!  (Message edited by Asurprise on April 05, 2012) | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 438 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Asurprise~ Would you be willing to share with us the place where you read this information regarding the 'cups'? ~mj~ | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 184 Registered: 5-2011  |
I love cadbury cream eggs. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2063 Registered: 6-2006 |
Oh those poor gentiles, Dianne. The good news is, like at Christmas time, no one will force you to celebrate, or admonish you about it either way. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1727 Registered: 7-2004  |
What Asurprise is promoting is not from information found in Scripture. If one believes that Scripture is complete in containing everything we need to know and follow, then it creates great questions about following Jewish traditions. Acts 20 and I Cor 11 both clearly indicate that early Christians celebrated the Lord's Supper, not a Seder with more understanding. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2534 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ric; what is the Lord's supper? Jesus answered this question Himself when He said: "Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?" Luke 22:11 and "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." Luke 22:15 So it was the Passover that the disciples were eating with Jesus and when Jesus told them to remember Him as often as they did this, what was He referring to? The Passover. Mj; I first learned about the four cups at a Messianic Passover that I was invited to, but here's a link to an article from Fox news where a Jewish rabbi explains the Passover, including the four cups. Look under number 6. (This is a non-Christian rabbi.) http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/06/8-things-need-to-know-about-passover-2012/ (The sad thing about non-Christian Passovers is that the things in the Seder - which simply means order - so plainly point to Jesus, but are completely missed.) Here's some articles about Passover by Jews for Jesus: http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/3_2/passover http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/3_2/jbpassover Ric; I'm not promoting anything, I'm just pointing out what the Bible says. I haven't read where God said we're supposed to fast that week (of course, in that case, it would be a sin to eat the Passover), but if it's there, point it out to me. I don't believe that we have to keep Passover or any of the feasts to be saved. I'm not promoting that or anything. Furthermore if the pagan goddess "Easter" is in the Bible and if God commands us to color eggs in her honor, I'll be GLAD to do it. I challenge anyone to show me the verse(s) in the Bible where God commands it, because if it truly had a Christian origin, Jesus would have originated it - and if He does command it, I'll be glad to save up my eggs and color them in her honor! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 441 Registered: 2-2011 |
Asurprise~ Thank-you for the information I requested~ ~mj~ | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 284 Registered: 4-2007 |
The four cups of Passover , from Jewish sources represent different things: deliverance from the four evil decrees of pharoahs, from the four exiles of the Jewish people, etc. These interpretations are historical. The spiritual interpretation of them comes from Jewish mystic teaching, the Kabbala. According to the kabbalA there are four Forces of spiritual impurity and the cups represent redemption and cleansing frm them. The Kabbala is Jewish, but is often very dark. It developed after the diaspora. Many modern Jewish traditions that we are familiar with come not from the time of Christ but from the Talmud, it's many thousands of pages of commentary and from the Kabbala, writings that also include spells and charms invoking demons and dark angels. The modern Seder revolves around fours. Four foods, four cups, four questions, and so on. Numerology is a large part of Kabbala and four is a significant number. Did the pre Kabbala Passover contain the emphasis on fours? That's something intriguing I'm going to go read up on because I'm curious. Taking from this tradition and assigning Christian meanings is not necessarialy a bad thing, but to assume that modern jewish traditions are just like those of Jesus time is a big leap. I should probably get my flack jacket out, but I prefer my Christian traditions over murky modern Jewish ones. Lynne | ||
| Marysroses Registered user Username: Marysroses Post Number: 285 Registered: 4-2007 |
By the way I do understand that Jesus IS our Passover and that the biblical symbolism of Passover points to Jesus. I was making the point that modern Judaism is a long way from first century Palestine. In my opinion Kabbala is as dangerous as any other form of divination . | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2535 Registered: 7-2007 |
Marysroses; you're right that Jesus IS our Passover Lamb. The Bible isn't clear how many cups there were. The gospels don't detail the Passover that closely, but two of the cups are mentioned... And He took a cup, and when He had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves." Luke 22:17 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. Luke 22:20 | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1728 Registered: 7-2004 |
If you follow the account in John there is good evidence that thebLasat Supper could not be the Passover meal. John 9:14 clearly identifies the day as the preparation day for the Passover, not the Passover day itself. Furthermore, if Jesus is the Passover Lamb, slain on Passover, He and His disciples could not have been eating a Passover meal a full day before the Passover lamb was slain. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1729 Registered: 7-2004 |
Assuming that the traditions of Jews have any more God-given validity that the traditons of pagans is a big mistake, IMO. Asurprise is absolutely correct in noting that there are no Biblical commands to fast for the week leading into Easter. It is a tradition, not an instruction from the Bible. Participating in the Passover requires being circumcised according to Ex 12:48. The Passover could never have been intended for, or commanded to, Gentile believers. To instruct this would require that they be circumcised, in direct contradiction to the decision rendered on this very subject in Acts 15. Some strong indicators that the Last Supper, and therefore the institution of Communion, is not a once per year Passover meal. The Passover lamb was slain on the preparation day, prior to the Passover. Ex 12:6. Was Jesus slain on the preparation day or on the Passover Day? No work could be done on the Passover Day Lev 23:7. Yet there was a carrying of arms, a session of the Sanhedrin, the purchase of linens, and the burial of the body. Luke uses the word for leavened bread when describing the meal of the Last Supper, even though he has used the word for unleavened bread in another context within the same chapter. Luke 22 verses 1 and 19 John 13:29 indicates that the disciples viewed the Passover feast as upcoming, not the Last Supper they were eating at that time. John 18:28 shows that the Jewish leaders had not yet eaten the passover. John 19:14 (not 9:14, darn fingers) clearly states that Jesus was crucified on the Preparation day for the Passover. The other Gospel accounts make statements that sound like it may have been the Passover meal, but that leaves a contradiction in Scripture. John is very specific. The other accounts are less specific. Usually, when we have apparent conflicts we use the clear and specific statements to clarify the passages that are more vague. If the remaining Gospel accounts are read where preparing the Passover is preparing the place for the passover by removing all of the leaven, as was necessary before Passover began and was historically performed on the evening that began the preparation day, the evening that the disciples went to prepare a place for the Passover. The evening that Jesus ate the Last Supper with them. This understanding allows all of the passages to be true exactly as they read, even Luke's wording of leavened bread being served at the Last Supper (they were consuming what would have to be thrown away later). The disciples started preparing for a Passover meal that they would never share with Jesus. When Jesus established baptism and communion as the NT ordinance these were a complete break from the OT ordinances. He did not re-purpose one of the Sabbath feasts to be a NT ordinance. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1730 Registered: 7-2004 |
Concerning the question of whether the Lord's Supper was a once-per-year Passover meal, let's look at how it was celebrated in the church: I Cor 11:17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not. 23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes....33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come. Now the church in Corinth wasn't doing everything proper in regards to the Lord's Supper. But let's look at what they were doing and what they were instructed to change. They were eating the Lord' Supper when the came together. Certainly they met more than once each year. They were rebuked for making this a meal to satisfy (and even exceed) their physical appetites, so they were instructed to fulfill their hunger at home before they arrived. But they weren't being told to do this less often. In Acts 20 we read- These went on ahead and were waiting for us at Troas, 6 but we sailed away from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days we came to them at Troas, where we stayed for seven days. 7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. Many people conclude that verse 7 is indicating the celebration of communion. If it is, ths is 2 weeks after Passover is complete, roughly three weeks after the Passover meal. So they certainly were not celebrating Passover. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2537 Registered: 7-2007 |
Actually Luke 22:8-15 is plain enough. Notice: So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.” They said to him, “Where will you have us prepare it?” He said to them, “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters and tell the master of the house, ‘The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ And he will show you a large upper room furnished; prepare it there.” And they went and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover. And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." Mark 14:16-18 says: And the disciples set out and went to the city and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover. And when it was evening, he came with the twelve. And as they were reclining at table and eating, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” Matthew 26:18-21 says: e said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’” And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover. When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve. And as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” The one in John is a bit vague. No one could join God's people in old testament times without being physically circumcised. Now, God's people are those who are circumcised in heart. The apostle Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and the Corinthians were Greeks. The passage doesn't say how often Paul was referring to, when he said: "when you come together." He might not have been talking about their simply coming together. He might have been talking about their coming together for a specific purpose in this passage. |
