| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1452 Registered: 5-2007 |
In my search for a Church to fellowship in. I have looked into their base teachings , doctrines and such. There is a remarkable tendancy to disqualify people , to cap them , or contain them in the state they are trying to heal from. One of the most common is the divorce and remarriage teachings, how they intrepret it. Often they go on a litany of inquistions to determine who is at fault. I can only imagine they would expect you to prove your case or admit your failings. Then after they have passed judgement, they declare your life redeemable or forever cursed to be alone and single. They set up burdens that they themselves could not bear. It is teachings like these that back me away from even approaching. If our lives are redeemable, whether we are to blame, a mix of blame or completely the victim , it is not right to expect to be raked through a gauntlet to be accepted in fellowship. If a church believes in compartmentalizing it's prisoners, then it is not a healing church. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2054 Registered: 6-2006  |
"There is a remarkable tendancy to disqualify people" Maybe I am misreading, but are you talking about yourself here? Because I can see that loud and clear in your post. Not all churches are the same. Not all churches are run like the SDA system. Believe it or not, Jim, there are some great, Bible-believing churches out there with friendly, believers who just want to worship, and fellowship and serve. Passing judgement on people or congregations before you even step foot in the door only sets the bar so high that ultimately you're in for a huge disappointment. No one will ever be able to live up to your expectations. So then what? Well, you can say "See! I told you so! (Insert you original post here)". Or, the other way to see it is you miss out on joy and fellowship and potentially a church family. I guess getting out there and finding a church depends on what you really want... (Message edited by grace_alone on March 31, 2012) (Message edited by grace_alone on March 31, 2012) | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1454 Registered: 5-2007 |
and with that.......everything I expressed is invalidated. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1720 Registered: 7-2004  |
Jim, I know churches that take the Bible seriously about divorce, that practice church discipline and expect a meaningful confession of one's role in the divorce (not to the whole church, but usually in discussion with a pastor or elder) for those members who divorce. But the churches aren't on a witch hunt to create demoralizing standards. They are seeking to redeem and forgive members. The question isn't whether we fall short, we all do in some area, but whether we acknowledge and regret our role in falling short. I haven't seen churches that apply this practice to someone joining their church. I can only respond to what i read, but from what I read, it looks like you are looking for reasons to reject a church. | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2012 |
Jim, Judging by your sweet and sincere (ahem) response to Grace_Alone, you are evidently not serious about simply joining other believers to worship God. She is right, you know. At this rate, even if you find what seems like the "perfect" church for you, inevitably the humans (sinners) who pastor and attend the church will disappoint you. Church membership is not our little slice of Heaven on Earth. It's a collection of flawed people who choose to meet and worship together, and who (sometimes) join together to help others. And, to Rick's point, you are investigating churches that require a confession of every sin committed before you join them? The closest thing to that I can think of is Scientology. Surely you're not so beguiled by Tom Cruise and John Travolta that....Jim, nooooooo!  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13551 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, I'm sensing that you may have guilt about your divorce still. You know, I realized at some point in the process of digging out from my own divorce in the 80's that there was no way I could really go on with my life unless I admitted to God that I was not innocent. After a divorce we tend to want to analyze the situation and validate our having gone through the divorce. And truthfully, some divorces really are pretty much because one party was abusive, and the other couldn't stay and be safe. What I finally realized was that even though I honestly could say I had been betrayed in some very real ways, my own brokenness (that I didn't even know was there) was partly what drove me into that marriage in the first place. I wasn't really free to heal from that divorce until I repented for the underlying sin that had twisted my own heart so that I was almost unable to avoid a really unhealthy marriage in the first place. Knowing how you analyze and agonize over your decisions, Jim, I'm certain that you tried to the point of compulsion to be good and nice and kind and loving in your marriage...but even if you made all the "right" decisions, you still found yourself in a marriage where your wife had secrets and treated you with some amount if disrespect, if I remember correctly. The underlying brokenness that led to your compulsive second-guessing and analysis was part of what set you up for a marriage that was hurtful. We all have to admit that we are hopelessly broken, hopelessly sinners—and when we can finally admit that we contributed to the pain in our own lives by even unconsciously hurting others because we ourselves had been broken by someone else's transgressions against us—then we are finally able to become free from the guilt and anxiety and fear that we might have done something "wrong", that somehow the divorce was "our fault". The fact that some people focus on "fault" will become largely irrelevant when you can admit that there were issues in your own soul that led you to be in an unhealthy marriage in the first place. When God finally makes us SEE that we are in danger, that we are being persistently hurt in a serious way and delivers us from the situation, our proper response should be to thank Him for protecting us and to ask Him to help us to know and grow in the ways He already knows we need to know and grow. If we sit on the sharp edge of failure, even though God had delivered us and has given us a new life and His forgiveness, we will make ourselves neurotic and crazy. I'm just speaking from my own experience, Jim. What any given church thinks about divorce will not be a big deal to you when you can admit the truth about your own involvement and receive God's forgiveness. And your own involvement may actually be the underlying brokenness that blinded you to the fact that the person you were marrying was abusive or dishonest or...fill in the blank, and your responses to their aggression or manipulation might have been enabling instead of healthy. God knows—and He has delivered you, and His purpose for you is that you will have a life of truth and joy and abundance in Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1455 Registered: 5-2007 |
I made a promise to not bring up accusations or details against my wife. We agreed at the divorce we would not cut each other down to others. (In my mind) That includes humans in churches as well. I have admitted my own failures, mistakes and faults through the 30 years of marriage. Though I know I did everything I could to save it, it was ripped away from me. Not enough, never enough. Colleen was right, sensing impending loss of my wife, compulsion set in. I runined my health trying to change her mind. Finally acceptance. It is suggested that I am looking for reasons to reject a church. You have it exactly backwards. I am looking for a church that will not reject a broken life, a church that will not interogate and require dragging up the past. If God forgives and forgets, why can't the church? There are strongholds in my life. Finding freedom depends upon finding a safe place. I am wore out trying. I have come to to the point of considering that this is as good as it gets. Coming to terms with that. I hurt. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2689 Registered: 5-2007  |
Well Jim02, No one here knows anything about you other than what you choose to share. The overall impact of your postings gives me the impression that you are the one who is struggling with yourself that contradicts the words you use. You seem to worry about what 'others' think while at the same time have an internal warfare within yourself. What I am saying is that when your internal struggle is over you will discover that what others 'think' will no longer bother you. PS I have been down your 'road' and know the struggle. Your brother in Christ, Phil | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2011 |
Let me ask you Jim, do you have to find a church? I say that because I've quit trying to find one for the time being. I'm happy just studying and listening to good pastors through podcasts. My husband, two kids and I also talk together, pray, and study the Bible together, although not as often as we should. Do you have any Bible believing family or Christian friends that you could pray and study with? | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1456 Registered: 5-2007 |
I made a mistake in saying anything at all. I keep telling myself, when in depression, shut up. Phil, it just is. Starlabs, No, there is no one. No place, No group, nothing. That is what small town escapism gets you. I do study daily, I watch sermons, and on radio. Let's just let it go. | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 163 Registered: 7-2007  |
Sorry that you are having a rough time with depression right now. Lately I have been trying to encourage my (SDA) mother who is having a hard time reconnecting with people due to depression. She does not find much encouragement in church (no big surprise there) and I live in a different state. I have tried to encourage her to go to her local senior center, volunteer, join a support group, but she hasn't for whatever reason. Occasionally she has talked about how going to a 12 step program years ago helped her, and said she'd like to try again. I went online and gave her the closest groups for Emotions Anonymous, which had previously helped her, and also Celebrate Recovery. Last week she told me she was going to visit 3 different groups and see how she liked them. I will be praying for her and for you, too. It's possible that you may need to commute away out of your small town to find a group or church that will be a safe place to heal. But it would be worth it. There is a place where you will feel welcome. Concerning churches one I have been visiting recently which I have liked is an Evangelical Covenant Church. Their teaching on divorce and remarriage emphasize redemption and healing, not judgement or condemnation. God's Peace, Nancy | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 435 Registered: 2-2011 |
Jim02~ Since you did open the door on your feelings I am going to walk through it~ I have been down a similar road that you speak of, and it is indeed a lonely one. I get that. When I left adventism many years ago I had been on that lonely road for far too long. I just made up my mind, that whatever it took I was going to travel on another road! I found a church(actually, I believe God pointed me there) where the Word of God is taught from a Pastor who is a true Shepherd to the people in his parish. Never once, in all the time I have been there has he or anyone else asked about my background! the church is suppose to be a "hospital" for sinners! a place for healing of hearts that hurt. Please, Jim, keep looking for the church that God has in His plan for you~We humans were not created to be alone. God is Faithful~Trust Him~ He will do it~He Loves You! Praying for you, Jim~ ~mj~ | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 308 Registered: 2-2008 |
Jim, I can totally relate to what you are saying, you live in a small town, and people take sides in a divorce, or even just peg you as a certain type of individual. Social hierarchies are not limited to sda. I suggested several times to you that you go on a road trip, or attend church in another town to escape this predicament. When you fellowship with others who don't know your history, it gives you freedom to reveal or not reveal your situation. Small towns have just as much fallen nature as big towns, so there are people who will glory in the hardships of others, even on a subconscious level. I don't know how small your town is, I am fortunate to have 150,000 people to choose from, and don't need to be boxed in by anyone. I think that what Paul talks about when he says we need to die daily, is to die from ourselves,our definitions of ourselves, our external struggles, and our internal struggle with ourselves. The only place of safety from internal struggle is in Christ. Remind yourself that He redeemed you on the cross, and has risen to be with you. I agree with what Phil says, but I don't doubt a small town setting exacerbates your dilemma.It might not be the optimum place for recovery. You don't have to run away from where you live, but it might help to spend some time away, to get some perspective. God loves us where we are, but as a few bible stories tell us, sometimes he wants people some place different. Listen to God, He'll tell you something. He wins us over with his loving kindness, and he has great things planned for you. He has a desire for what he wants you to do, and he has promised to give you that desire in your heart. Delight in Him and what he has done. Chris | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1457 Registered: 5-2007 |
Chris, Mj, Nancy, I have and do commute to access more choices but hey are limited in Middle Georgia Macon areas. It is remarkably behind the curve here. Lot's of history and very old culture. Most programs are 100 miles north or 150 south. I attended a course called DivorceCare for a few months. That was 5 years ago. There are no courses(mutual support groups) that help you past the 3 month one. Of any kind, unless you can afford to pay for it. Which is not what I really need anyway. Buying company to eb around is pretty pathetic. I went to a Celebrate Recovery for awhile. But all they had was a group aimed at drug and alcohol abuse. Nothing in common, non sequitor. I also went to a 12 step group. One had so much smoke I had to leave. The other was about alcohol. I am familiar with the 12 step. But again, not really applicable under the circumstances of what is available as a theme here. In the general sense, if you do not smoke about 1/2 the people consider that an oddity. When they discover I do not drink, that takes away some more, and when they find out I do not eat pork or shellfish, well, that ain't American. So I wear the mask. I have learned to not say much about anything. It always scares people away. I have also learned to not show weakness and not admit to any pain. Socially, I am exhausted before I even start. So , I try to reset my thinking to a passive stance so as to not sabotage and overthink where I might go and just try to quitely fit in. I also learned, I cannot say where I came from (SDA) as that too is a show stopper. Is it about worrying what other people think? That is a fair question. I guess in one sense it is. The old saying , familiarity breeds contempt is true. If you give TMI , which is remarkably very little, you get labeled as not one of us. I have literally been called Yankee more than once. I was born in KY and grew up in FL. But somehow , I am a Yankee. I am not saying that it is prevalent or I face that daily. But I am saying, it is a factor. I do listen for God's guidance, my radar is always on. That is part of my confusion. Does God want me to all stop and drift, keep waiting, meander, keep looking or simply let it all go. Then I get into, I am not doing it right, not trying hard enough, not good enough, still sinning and on and on. Feeling sorry for myself is not my aim nor desire. Sometimes, I just get utterly wore out trying. My health is fading and it is possibly becoming academic anyway. I count my blessings , my hope remains. I have faith even if I do not understand. | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 104 Registered: 5-2011 |
I admire your courage and fortitude, Jim. I'm sorry I went on about my family and our prayer time together, not thinking about the pain you are in without a family. My apologies to you as I was not thinking clearly about your situation as I wrote the earlier post. I can see now you really do need someone just to talk to that won't be jugdemental. Again, I'd like to say that I admire you for the strength you seem to have despite what the world is throwing at you. Jim, I'm praying that Jesus will wrap His arms around you even a little tighter as you don't have a partner in this life right now. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1460 Registered: 5-2007 |
Starlabs, Good Morning. Thank you for your kindness. You made a valid pointasking, do I have to find a church? I am not very good at socializing. I enjoy church but have a hard time going alone. (Not an excuse) I have always preferred being with someone, sharing the worship time together. Let's face it , the norm for church settings is couples and families. I know we all belong in fellowship. (Again , not an excuse) Overthinking it is sabotage. It takes very little for me to be content. Yet it seems that no matter how low I set the bar of expectations, somehow the emptiness remains. My sister says I put too much focus on having a wife again. Maybe I do. The fact is it is all I know, it is who I am. Seek God first and all these things will be added. I keep that in mind. I was laying in bed awake, thinking, praying, the one constant in all my life has been God. I have tried to keep Him first. But have not always done so. Maybe that is why I am where I am . I still have hope. My trust is in Him. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 889 Registered: 1-2007 |
Jim, I understand that going to church alone is very scary as we have been raised that it is for families. I have also found it very scary to go alone even though I am married to a loving man who will only go for weddings and funerals. We have people in all kinds of situations who attend and I think nothing of it. We have widows, divorced and people who are married whose spouse will not attend church. When I first attended I sat in the last pew closest to the door so I could sneak out at the end but God had another plan as I was waylaid and greeted with love. The next week someone was there to greet me and asked me to sit with them. I found that if you do not want to be seen I would suggest a large church (lots of people). If you are looking for fellowship I would suggest a small church. I have been through both large and small churches and I personally prefer a small church. I have also mentioned I came out of a SDA church and had people look at me funny. I found that the reason is because they do not understand their teachings and I have had to tell them that it is a cultic church and am still learning the truth. Gail | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7852 Registered: 9-2006  |
Good words Gail. |
