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River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7773
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 3:55 am: |     |
This is an excerpt of Falsani’s interview with Obama in 2004.
In listing part of the interview I wish to remark that things could have changed with Obama.
The source is taken from the Baptist Press.
Among Obama's most intriguing answers, he says he believes there are many paths to God. His answers on heaven and sin, though, have drawn the most discussion:
FALSANI: "Do you believe in heaven?"
OBAMA: "Do I believe in the harps and clouds and wings?"
FALSANI: "A place spiritually you go to after you die?"
OBAMA: "What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can, that I will be rewarded. I don't presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die. But I feel very strongly that whether the reward is in the here and now or in the hereafter, the aligning myself to my faith and my values is a good thing. When I tuck in my daughters at night and I feel like I've been a good father to them, and I see in them that I am transferring values that I got from my mother and that they're kind people and that they're honest people, and they're curious people, that's a little piece of heaven."
FALSANI: "Do you believe in sin?"
OBAMA: "Yes."
FALSANI: "What is sin?"
OBAMA: "Being out of alignment with my values."
FALSANI: "What happens if you have sin in your life?"
OBAMA: "I think it's the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I'm true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward; when I'm not true to it, it's its own punishment."
Obama said he is a Christian but that he also draws beliefs from other religions.
"I am a Christian. So, I have a deep faith," he said. "So, I draw from the Christian faith. On the other hand, I was born in Hawaii where obviously there are a lot of Eastern influences. I lived in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, between the ages of six and 10. My father was from Kenya, and although he was probably most accurately labeled an agnostic, his father was Muslim. And I'd say, probably, intellectually I've drawn as much from Judaism as any other faith."
He added, "So, I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people."
Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said after reading the transcript, he views Obama as being a "typical 21st century National Council of Churches, mainline Protestant."
"He would be quite at home at Vanderbilt Divinity School, Perkins School of Theology, Yale Divinity School, Union Theological Seminary," Land said of a series of schools that embrace liberal theology. " ... He certainly is someone who views the Bible as a resource, not as ultimate authority. And so he is a cafeteria Protestant. He certainly is not putting himself under the authority of Scripture."
Obama's answer on sin, Land said, is well off target.
"An orthodox Christian answer would be 'being out of alignment with God's values,'" Land said. "The contrast is stark."
But Land won't say that Obama is not a Christian. (End of quotes)
The point I want to make is Land’s refusal to say whether Obama is a Christian or not.
I mean really… the president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission cannot distinguish a Christian from a non-Christian from these answers?
Has the Southern Baptist gotten so far away from the shouting Baptist’s I knew as a child?
I mean, the minute we are saved, are we then expected to get a bad case of stupid?
Ok, how does this pertain to this website?
My answer: How are we too know when to defend the Gospel if we cannot distinguish a Christian from the rest of the world?
Does Christ death and resurrection mean so little?
Does ‘turn the other cheek’ mean dumbing down?
Does ‘be kind’ mean to get stupid?
What would Jesus tell him? Let’s look at an example.
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 8:13 The Pharisees then said to him, "You are bearing witness to yourself; your testimony is not true."
John 8:14 Jesus answered, "Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true, for I know whence I have come and whither I am going, but you do not know whence I come or whither I am going.
John 8:15 You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one.
John 8:16 Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and he who sent me.
John 8:17 In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true;
John 8:18 I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me."
John 8:19 They said to him therefore, "Where is your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also."
John 8:20 These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.
John 8:21 Again he said to them, "I go away, and you will seek me and die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
John 8:22 Then said the Jews, "Will he kill himself, since he says, 'Where I am going, you cannot come'?"
John 8:23 He said to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he." RSV
River |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2448
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 1:16 pm: | |
Wow! Obama saying that, shows very clearly whether he's saved or not! There's only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus. Any other "way" is the way to death. If people expect to be rewarded because they're living their life as well as they can, then they are lost.
For Christians, this life is the only "hell" they will have. For unbelievers, this life is the only "heaven" they will have. |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 2683
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 2:02 pm: | |
Hey Asurprise,
The only hell I've ever had was the year I spent on Adak....only it was a lot colder than I expected hell to be.
Seriously, even during difficult mements, the peace of having Jesus (the Holy Spirit really)is heaven here on earth. What comes to mind is a friend of mine who had terminal cancer and in terrible pain. Right up to the moment when the Lord claimed him into his arms in heaven, he had joy and peace. Just before he died he gave me his best black leather coat. Whenever I put it on I think of him and great peace comes over me knowing that when I die I will be just as secure as he is. To me that is experiencing heaven right now here in a very troubled world.
Phil |
Kelleigh
Registered user
Username: Kelleigh
Post Number: 414
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 5:13 pm: | |
I said a prayer before I logged into the Forum today. I asked, 'show me through this forum a reason to remain a Christian'. When I read President Obama's interview I thought, wow this is where I'm at too. I resonate with what the President is saying here. My question is, 'Do Obama's stated beliefs qualify him as a Christian'? and 'How is a Christian defined'? |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7778
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 6:35 pm: | |
There is only one door to eternal life and that is through Jesus Christ. Trough his atonement is the only way we can be justified before God.
I just typed the scripture off to you.
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."
He came to die for our sins. At the time of the interview with Obama he did not qualify to call himself a Christian, therefore he was an imposter.
Obama said there are many ways to heaven, yet there is only one.
We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. You would only have to sin once to be condemned even if you were sorry about it later, if you sin just one time, then sin has entered at the door.
God is pure and sin cannot inhabit his dwelling place. God had to furnish us the sacrifice for sin and he did it by sending Jesus, and Jesus took our sin upon himself and bore it in his in his own body by his death on the cross.
He died that we might live.
Obama believed Jesus was a good man, but he did not believe Jesus was the sin bearer, therefore, if he does not change his mind, he will die in his sins.
We don't move in and out of Christianity, to become a Christian you must be born again.
Once you have been born again you become a new creature, the old has passed away and all things have become new.
Kelleigh, I urge you to listen to the people on this forum who believe in Jesus as the only way to salvation. Their belief has freed them from the bondage of Adventism and that freedom is real.
River |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 89
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 9:03 pm: | |
Kelleigh,
Ultimately, if you are looking to people for reasons to remain a Christian, you will be disappointed. Hopefully, you will recognize true Christians by their love; but sadly, none of us does a great job of showing the love of God.
If you are serious about finding reasons to keep believing, I suggest reading the gospel of John, especially chapter 17 and on through Jesus' death and resurrection. Ask to be filled and led by the Holy Spirit as you read.
You will probably never have "proof" to back up your faith (in this life), but I guess that's why it's called faith. And, in the end, it's just between you and God. |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 90
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 9:15 pm: | |
River,
I'm afraid the president just says what he thinks he needs to say...like most politicians.
Meanwhile, the religious "leaders" do the same thing, trying to appease both sides. If you expected someone in that position to say that the prez is not a Christian.... well, don't hold your breath - unless your computer knows CPR.
(Message edited by truman on March 03, 2012) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13465
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 9:36 pm: | |
Kelleigh, I'd like to piggy-back on Truman's post above and suggest that you sit and read the gospel of John. maybe take one chapter a day...and what I really urge you to do is to literally copy it into a journal. (It's OK if you do less than a chapter a day...)
If you copy the words, you'll be able to focus on the smallest details, and it amazes me how much I see that I never see when I read through a chapter. Ask God to teach you what He knows you need to know, and just spend some weeks with the gospel of John, word-for-word, contemplating the verb tenses and prepositions and adjectives. Even the transitional words carry a weight of meaning. This gospel really tells the "answers".
God is faithful.
Colleen |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7779
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 8:37 am: | |
I suppose those who adhere strongly to Adventism and its Sabbath keeping and the teachings of the Adventist church feel that they have formed a strong legal framework of some kind to present to God in the day of judgment.
Christianity is not forming a legal framework, it is accepting the free gift of Gods only son and he has become our salvation.
I have heard people remark that at the time of judgment they will tell God such and such.
I think the truth is, we will not have an argument, nor will we be able to submit an opinion, whether saved or sinner.
The Bible says in Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
River |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2450
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 1:12 pm: | |
Kelleigh; River is right. To get to heaven, one must be as good as God. No one can do that. Isaiah was as good a man as any who've lived, yet he compared his GOOD WORKS to filthy rags - Isaiah 64:6. The Bible makes clear that without the shedding of blood there's no forgiveness, so the ONLY way to be saved is through an Atonement. The old testament pointed forward to a redeemer to come. Isaiah 53 goes into detail about Jesus dying for the sins of the world. The Passover pointed forward to a perfect Lamb. Daniel 9:26 even said WHEN Jesus would die! (Be "cut off.") |
Caseyk
Registered user
Username: Caseyk
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2012
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 5:25 pm: | |
It does not surprise me to hear the Southern Baptist could not call Obama a non-Christian. There is much debate within the Southern Baptist Association as to their doctrinal beliefs in society today. Some lean more to "hardshell" and others toward a more liberal view. Certainly Franklin Graham would say Obama is not a Christian and he would repeat what River has said.
That is why the U.S.Military does not want Graham to be a participant with them on "The National Day of Prayer". There is only one way to get to Heaven and it is only through Jesus Christ and His shed blood. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 9672
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 5:50 pm: | |
Caseyk, welcome to FAF!
Diana |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 8:29 pm: | |
~Caseyk~
~WELCOME to the Form~
Yes~only through the Precious Blood of the Lamb~Jesus!
~mj~ |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13467
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 9:32 pm: | |
CaseyK--welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you here! Make yourself at home; we look forward to getting to know you.
Colleen |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2456
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 6:31 pm: | |
Welcome to the forum, Caseyk!  |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 879
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 7:37 am: | |
Welcome CaseyK. |
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