| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 529 Registered: 2-2010 |
3 Minutes in he call's Seventh-day Adventism a cult. http://www.gty.org/MediaPlayer/sermons/90-379 | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 361 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Free2dance~ Thank-you for posting this teaching~ I will be sharing it with other people! ~mj~ | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1798 Registered: 12-2007  |
Yes, I have heard it.... I wish he would have left that part out... because it is a very good sermon and IF it were not for that one remark I would like to copy and send it to several SDA family members,,,, but I KNOW that as soon as they would hear that one comment,,,, that would be the end of listening.  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13379 Registered: 12-2003  |
I understand, Francie, but I have to tell you that in the big picture, this is really good news. Adventists are not likely to be convinced about Sabbath by a "regular Christian" unless they already have dissonance. On the other hand, one of our hardest hurdles to overcome has been the fact that Christians didn't understand that Adventism is not Christian under the hood. Just a few years ago we had people insulting us for saying it's a cult because, they would say, no "top drawer apologist" or respected theologian would say it's a cult. But that is changing. Rose Publishing has published a pamphlet on 10 Questions & Answers on Seventh-day Adventism that reveals its core cultic teachings with documentation. Louis Talbot's 1957 treatise on why Adventism is NOT evangelical has been re-found and published. And here's John MacArthur, one of the most well-known and respected Bible teachers of our day, openly calling it a cult. And he's right. So in the big picture, the value of his saying this is huge. Christians will hear him, and the truth of Adventism will be that much more clear to the Christian community. This clarity means more people will be protected from being seduced by SDA evangelism, and more Christians will think twice before accepting SDAs as regular brothers in Christ. In reality, Adventists need to be evangelized. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7685 Registered: 9-2006  |
Colleen, funny I was thinking on this very same thing pretty heavy the other night when something or other pulled my attention off it. What I was trying to form in my mind was this. A foreign missionary has to pick a foreign field of endeavor, say Africa, India or some other places we some of us don’t even know exists. If I were a foreign missionary, it would make no sense to pick England for example. I would pick a country that most needs evangelizing. Bottom line is, there is a need for evangelism in Adventism, but the need for evangelism there cannot be determined until it is decided what it is or if it even exists. I became acquainted with missionaries to one of the very small ‘stans’ which I did not even know existed, it is full of mountain ranges, most of the back areas don’t yet have electricity or running water. The thing is, if it doesn’t become known that Adventism is a cult, evangelization can’t take place. I am amazed at the amount of people that do not know that the Seventh Day Adventist church is a cult. I met a missionary to the cowboys that makes a circuit through Eastern Oregon, and I believe it was Montana and Wyoming. He is invited by these outlying ranch owners to come to the ranch and hold church meeting which many times take place in barns. He helps the ranchers at round up time and has his own horse trailer and horses. That is all the church these cowboys get in an entire year. By the same token there are mission fields right under our noses. Adventism is one of them. Like you said, bottom line, Adventist need to be evangelized just as much as India, or Pakistan. Adventists are sending missionaries to such places as parts of Africa right along side evangelical organizations, but the missionaries are so alone over there they welcome Adventist missionaries the same as another evangelical missionary. They just do not realize the dangers of the one they are rubbing shoulders with. When I ask one AOG missionary to Africa what he did with Adventist missionaries he said they were so isolated over there that they could not afford to disagree with other missionaries. Of course I don’t know the full portent of that, but seems to me that we cannot afford to work in agreement with them. River | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1801 Registered: 12-2007 |
You are right Colleen, It will be good for other Christians to hear him refer to SDA's as a cult. I was only thinking from the perspective of having SDA's listen to it. One step at a time..... Give me patience Lord  | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1604 Registered: 7-2004  |
I actually think there is a big difference between when Formers call SDAism a cult and when a respected Evangelical calls SDAism a cult. I think it has much greater credibility coming from outside. | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 357 Registered: 7-2011  |
I believe that the word "cult" is one of the most confusing and potentially harmful religious terms. I no longer use it in reference to the sda denomination. Today the word has several meanings however "cult" is commonly recognised as a derogatory term. If our intent is to help people the term may do more harm than good. I think this issue is worth considering. We have all observed how feelings of anger tend to blind people from hearing another’s point of view. Anger shuts people down. The word “cult” is for the most part, an emotionally charged word that generally carries a lot of negativity. Perhaps some people can use it and still maintain an attitude of love when warning people, however the word often stirs up anger in others. When people are angry they shut their ears and our words and efforts become impotent. Just an opinion. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1802 Registered: 12-2007 |
I used to always think of "cults" as the real nut jobs like the Moonies, the guys from Waco,etc. I had just thought of SDA, JW. mormons, catholics, etc as Misguided,believing faulty doctrines, but hadn't really considered them "cults" until recently. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7689 Registered: 9-2006 |
Cult in this sense means an unorthodox religious organization or it adherents. Correct me if I'm wrong? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7690 Registered: 9-2006 |
I just don't see how Adventism can be considered anything other than a cult, since it's teachings are far from orthodox. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1205 Registered: 7-2004  |
Someone had on their Facebook wall (not a direct quote) that Christians try to convert pagans, while cults try to convert Christians. So true! I've listened to the first half of the sermon so far and am so excited to hear a respected theologian with no SDA background get it right and do such an exceptional job of teaching on the topic. An interesting thing I noticed is that he used some of the same points I heard in SDAism with entirely different conclusions. For example, bringing up that the 7-day week cycle exists because of a 6 day creation and then the Sabbath, and that Revelation calls us to worship God as Creator - and linking that with Sabbath. But he absolutely does not conclude that Sabbath was meant for all people from Creation on, or that Sabbath is intended to be kept today. Instead he repeatedly said Sabbath was only for the Israelites and was abolished with the entire Jewish system. I think the point of even bringing up the 7-day week cycle and Revelation saying to worship God as Creator was just to say that the Sabbath was only God's rest in the begining but a memorial (not for worshiping and keeping) that first pointed to God's perfect creation and original perfect rest. And I love how he said the Sabbath later (when instituted for the Israelites) then had a second symbol attached to it: pointing to rest in Jesus (that's probably not how he worded it--can't remember.) (Message edited by Raven on February 04, 2012) | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2012 |
I agree with Kelleigh on this one. Just because a term is "accurate" doesn't mean using it is the most effective way to accomplish our objective; especially if we know that hearing the term causes people to mentally shut us out. Put another way, telling someone he's an "idiot", even if it's accurate in today's terms, probably isn't the most effective way to change his behavior. (P.S. No, I am not suggesting we shouldn't "defend the gospel.") | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1805 Registered: 12-2007 |
I agree Truman, it is okay to use the term "cult" among ourselves who have left and realize that it actually is... but I would not tell a practicing SDA they are in a "cult" as they would shut down and not listen thinking we must deceived. It takes a while in the journey out to be able to look back far enough to really understand the truth about what we really left. | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 696 Registered: 2-2003  |
Just listened to this, It's a very good message | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1814 Registered: 12-2007 |
Listened to it again tonight while traveling to and from church I need to make a few CD copies to give away,, have to check first though and see if it is ok. |
