| Author | Message | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2623 Registered: 5-2007  |
I am doing some catch-up reading here and hope I’m not repeating what has already been said. Obviously Satan had nothing to do with the creation of T-rex or any other of God’s creative works. As to the question of why this creature ever existed I must admit I don’t know. In fact, I would like to put forth the proposition that the mystery is even greater than anyone has pointed out so far on this thread. For this, I am referring to the poem ‘ Beowulf’. The history it portrays is Nordic. The poem is Old English so needs to have a modern translation to be understand. ‘beowulf’, for instance is Old English for ‘bee wolf’ and was the name for the bear with reference to the fact bears were known to raid and eat honey. Since honey bees didn’t originally exist in Western Europe, this dates the poem but not the history contained in it. Hollywood movies totally pervert the content of the poem. One must read an actual translation of the poem. I consider this poem to be real history which predated the existence of Christianity. Most of the events occurred in modern day Denmark, not in an Icelandic setting as portrayed in one recent movie. Now, here is the really mind blowing thing to consider: The description of Grindal, the evil advisory was most likely the last remaining T-rex left on earth. Since this poem portrays a post-flood era, T-rex must have been included to Noah’s ark. When you ask why God does what he does, I think God says to himself; “If they (us finite humans with limited understanding) only knew the whole story, their questions would be overwhelming”. I, for one, have questions I don’t even know how to ask. Phil | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 146 Registered: 2-2010 |
I have been exposed to this topic and more in our Sunday School class these past 2 months. Someone is presenting the Old Earth Creation Theory: 15 Billion year old earth, animals dieing before Adam and Eve to create top soil, 6 days of creation are 6 long ages of time, and no world wide flood. I feel like my world view has been totally rocked and shook up again. I know this is no Salvation issue, but it is really unsettling. Now I am reading about some of the same stuff here. Hugh Ross in Pasadena has written books and started an organization called Reason To Believe. They are talking about Dual Revelation: Nature and Bible being equally valid and both have to agree with each other. Science fills in the answers where the Bible is quiet or not complete. It is sweeping across Christianity. The Creation Society is on the other side of the issue believing in a literal 6 days and a world wide flood which caused a lot of destruction of the earth and loss of the dinosaurs. I get skeptical when I hear people think they have this all figured out. (Message edited by Sharon3 on December 16, 2011) | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 137 Registered: 11-1999 |
Hi,Sharon, This is a non-salvation issue and the arguments on both side have valid points. However, basing an argument on a couple of valid points, omitting (or twisting) what doesn't fit, speculating on additional unknowns and then arriving at a conclusion is strangely familiar to the form of teaching I left behind. The fact is-on many things-we will never know the answer on this side of eternity. I completely understand, when you say, you become very skeptical when someone says they have it all figured out. Right there with you!!! People get so wrapped up in a tangent they lose sight of the goal. They get wrapped up in the competitiveness of the argument. They can't be seen as backing down or being wrong. More often than not, the person who is rightly dividing the word of truth simply supplies evidence for what they believe. The person who is manipulating information for their own purpose most always becomes defensive and resorts to personal insults. This is a good "check point" for any of us as we discuss doctrines. It's quite easy to become caught up in the argument and forget, as the body of Christ, our objective in the study of the Word is to grow in the grace and knowledge of Him. In order to grow in grace and knowledge we must approach the word of God with humility for without humility we are not teachable. | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 147 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thanks Lori, The attitude and arguments of this whole discussion in SS class is so very familiar to my old teachings. It feels good that you recognized that. I can go with part of Old Earth, but to think of death before Adam really rocks a foundation of where sin started. It almost makes me question who God is if He created an imperfect world outside of Eden and before that years of death and destruction of dinasaurs, hominids, etc. I really like the use of the words "speculation" and extra Biblical. The discussion on this thread has been more of an inquiry to the topic and I am more comfortable with this. Maybe this is only the beginning of all that we don't know and don't even know we don't know. If Lucifer's fall affected the outcome of creation, maybe that could be a speculation that could solve this in my mind, but I'm aware of the fact that that is coming from my old GC background. | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 320 Registered: 7-2011  |
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32).” Any teaching that does not have the power to change lives or to free people from sin is not 'truth' in the Biblical sense. Truth is alive. Truth is full of power. Jesus proclaimed, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life". Doctrines are merely knowledge and knowledge “puffeth up" (1 Cor 8:1). Knowledge is a source of pride, which in turn is the source of division. Truth is God’s Spirit in the hearts of those who love Him. Real truth frees people from the fear of those who are different. Truth frees people from the pride of needing others to rallying around pet doctrines. Truth sets us free. It does not create bondage. Truth transcends our systems of beliefs (systems based on our "partial understanding" 1 Cor 13:12) because Truth is spiritual. | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 148 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thanks, Kelleigh, this was helpful | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13237 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sharon, I agree--speculation can't be used to establish belief. We have to be content to live with some mystery. Good to see you! Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2625 Registered: 5-2007 |
I would like to add to my first post on this topic, keeping in mind that the mystery of tyrannosaurus rex is perhaps an even greater mystery than originally suggested. However, this topic should not be of great concern or troubling for a Christian who holds to a biblical view of creation and the topic of origins. Paleontology, the study of prehistoric life, centers around fossils which are reconstructed by those who assume an evolutionary view with a foundational bias and goal of excluding God as the source and explanation of things studied in our natural world including our own human origins and purpose in life. The reconstruction of any fossil involves a great amount of subjective interpretation of the evidence. What I am saying is that if you are the scientist reconstructing a tyrannosaurus rex fossil and hold to a creationist view of life you would most probably assemble the bones and interpret their meaning in a much different way than displayed in our popular museums of natural history. As Christians we can certainly be perplexed by such things as tyrannosaurus rex but need not be troubled when anti-God evolutionists present their so-called ‘facts’ of science. While tyrannosaurus rex remains a mystery to me, I am not trouble because: And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (Gen 1:31 ESV) I to am "content to live with some mystery". Phil | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-1999 |
I can remember the excitement of Adventists when maybe a dozen people would make the transition from the revelation seminar meetings at the hotel to the final meetings in the SDA church. Of course, only a handful would actually "join". But over just two or three people our little adventist church would be excited. I remember my own feelings about...it made me feel better that what I believed might really be true because...well, these few people believed it to...and they weren't born into this church...so it must be true!! Strange, how someone else falling into a trap can make you feel better about questioning if you are in a trap. My mother used this "technique" as proof that Adventism was the truth because my dad joined the church when I ten. She told me, "The Adventist truths are true because your dad went through the Revelation Seminar and he believed it." So, there you have, all that's necessary to validate truth is to have someone you care about accept what you already believe. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2288 Registered: 7-2007 |
Curious, how the "old-earth theory" gets into the discussion part of the forum on what seems to be a regular basis. My concern is that a searching SDA might lurk here and then reads a post supporting "old-earth" and concludes that we're all deceived, without really checking to see if their religion is wrong. I mean think about it. We were all taught as SDAs that belief in the Sabbath kept us believing in a literal 6 day creation week and therefore from straying from the foundation of the Bible. And what about the "old earth" theory? It comes from scientists. My dad is a scientist too. He cannot put God in a test tube, so he won't believe in the God of the Bible. He can't quite believe in Darwinian evolution either as it offends his intelligence. He just believes in ID, (Intelligent Design) though he can't say "Who" that is. Most scientists do the same thing. They START with a preconceived ASSUMPTION that there is NO GOD, and then they develop their theories from there. So which are we to believe? The God Who was there when creation happened and Who CURSED creation when sin began? That explains the T-Rex. Or....... are we to believe the scientists who START with the theory that there is no God? We seem to take everything scientists say as fact as if they have no bias and I think that stems from when scientists proved that the earth was not the center of universe. The Roman Catholic church stubbornly clung to the theory that the earth was the center, but they didn't read the Bible. The Bible mentions the circle of the earth. | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2011  |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Tyrannosaurus_4040.JPG It was 42 ft long, 14 ft high at the hip, and weighed 15,000 pounds. Was it the Leviathan described in the book of Job? | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 335 Registered: 7-2011 |
Awesome photo Goose! T-Rex = death for cute bunny rabbits = bad monster. Just an opinion. http://www.pluspets.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Cute-Little-Bunnies7.jpg | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2011 |
We live in a world of great contradictions, Kelleigh. I did reverberate with your post of Dec 17 | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2011 |
Gen 1:24,25 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good." http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Tyrannosaurus_4040.JPG I've read a lot of dancing around the issue, but I still want to know how was this creature "good?" | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2011 |
I like the version of T-Rex in the film, "Night at the Museum". Seriously though. God created every living creature and pronounced each class of creation good and very good. Was T-Rex good? Did God create T-Rex? Did God create my English Cocker Spaniel dogs? Indirectly yes. But I doubt a pair of English Cocker Spaniels boarded the Ark. They are a result of more recent selective breeding. Was T-Rex selectively bred by humans for its ferocious characteristics? As a weapon of warfare maybe? Possibly not. But it's a thought. I understand that all creatures have the capacity to adapt to their environment? Maybe dinosaurs adapted to the world of sin by developing characteristics that would help them survive. Maybe the first dinosaurs were quite different from those uncovered from later periods? Maybe the first dinosaurs were good and later dinosaurs were bad? I think this idea has been mentioned before? But perhaps not the quirky breeding idea. It could be a Kelleigh original?? (Message edited by Kelleigh on December 19, 2011) | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 406 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think you've made some good points, Kelleigh, as well as everyone else. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9543 Registered: 3-2004  |
As a kid in sda schools I remember being told that large people skeletons were found with dinosaur bones, but it was not publicized. This was to go along with egw teaching that Adam and Eve were really tall. Diana | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2011 |
Asurprise said: "The God Who was there when creation happened and Who CURSED creation when sin began? That explains the T-Rex." Have we looked at the size of this beast? 42 ft long, 14 ft tall at the hip, and weighed 15,000 pounds. How many humans were on the earth when God cursed creation? 3? 4? With a beast of that size, it would have quite an appetite. Our progenitors would certainly not have survived. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2292 Registered: 7-2007 |
Goose; the Bible doesn't say how long it was before Adam and Eve sinned. Animals reproduce really fast, so there could have been quite a few herds of deer, goats, sheep, elephants, buffalo, and other animals! Also it could have eaten other dinosaurs! | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2011 |
Asurprise, it does not really match up, though, regarding God calling what He had made "good." A T-Rex eating goats like pop corn is definitely not good. And if I were Adam or Eve, honestly, I would not even like a God who made a world like that. Period. |
