| Author |
Message |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2300
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 5:34 pm: |     |
Ric_b; Instead of picking apart what I post, would you be willing to ask God to
show you whether or not it's honoring to God to celebrate that day or not?
Rather than "wrestle me to the ground" on what I say, encourage people to look
into it for themselves. If it's of God, then people should celebrate it.
If however, it comes from evil, why celebrate it?
Here's a link to Passion for Truth Ministries.
http://www.passionfortruth.com/
Another thing that's curious is how ALL the "sun gods" in all
the various civilizations were born on December 25.
I think this is a link to the whole video (instead of watching all 9.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuIz63zBjM&feature=share |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2301
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 6:15 pm: | |
You might ask; "what harm is it in just changing the meaning of the tree,
yule log, etc. and worshiping God with those things. After all, we don't
worship the "sun god," we worship Jesus. We can change the original meaning of those things to worshiping Christ instead!
For example, worship Christ as the One born on Dec. 25!
Change the meanings of the symbols."
God addressed that when the Israelites were about to enter the promised land.
He said in Deuteronomy 12:3-4;
"And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things." |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13245
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 6:35 pm: | |
Paul tells us that all things are lawful...but not all things are helpful (1 Cor. 6:12 and 10:23). In the context, he is referring to not upsetting the faith of weaker brothers.
I hear you, Asurprise, saying that saved people don't lose salvation by having trees...and if someone feels a certain practice does not come from faith, it is wrong for him or her.
Nevertheless, I find Christmas decorations to be one of the most satisfying and rewarding parts of the external trappings of Christmas. The tree and decorations are part of what makes our Christmas gatherings with our FAF family warm and memorable. And believe me, the point is not the decorations, although we do have a lot of them!
Christmas Eve we had a big crowd of FAF at our house, and after eating supper together, we all sat in the living room lit by the tree and the lights in the garlands and shared something for which we were thankful to Jesus, and then we sang carols. It was a memorable time: the singing was worship, and several people commented on how warm and present the Lord Jesus was as we sang to Him.
The Christmas decorations are, for me, part of the lavishness of the joy and celebration that defines the fact that eternal, almighty God wrapped Himself in mortal flesh and undid the curse of death and returned Life to humanity. It's absolutely AMAZING!!!
Colleen |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 6:58 pm: | |
~I just did a little search using Google on
Jim Staley~ Interesting information~
He is a big part of HRM(Hebrew Roots Movement)~
This may sound like a good thing~however,I also
researched and read an opinion on a Christian
apologist site~ it was defending our freedom
Christ~
Since~Asurprise~ you suggest we read & hear what
Jim Staley has to say~ I would really like everyone to go to the web site I mentioned above
for information on the movement of which he is apart.
http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/
~mj~ |
Indy4now
Registered user
Username: Indy4now
Post Number: 1082
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 6:37 am: | |
MJ,
JGIG (Joyfully Growing in Grace) is a great resource on the HRM. I've enjoyed reading her blogs in the past.
Asurprise,
If we are not to learn the ways of the Gentiles... where does it stop? We live by a pagan calendar. Do you live by God's calendar or a pagan one?
I don't think anyone here worships the tree or the day of Christmas either. Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth... that's all. God asked the children of Israel to set up altars of 12 stones at the river Jordan. It wasn't for them to worship but to remind them of how God delivered them. Christmas is a time to remember that our Savior was born as a human to save us. Decorations are a way of reminding us what we are celebrating... that's all. No worship of the decorations. Can all this go way too far and become an idol? Absolutely. What is too much? I think that is according to each person.
vivian |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 1:36 pm: | |
Asurprise,
I am not picking apart what you posted, I am trying to show you and everyone else reading here that the quality of the information you are posting is highly questionable. By showing one error after another I am hoping that you will realize that error filled reasoning leads to error filled conclusions.
I also pointed out just a few of the false teachings from the Hebrews roots movement. If anyone is recommending listening to the teaching of someone, I think everyone should be aware of whether this teacher is grounded in solid Biblical teachings, or if they are involved in deep-rooted and even dangerous heresy.
Furthermore I resent your accusations that I have not prayerful considered whether I am honoring God. You know absolutely nothing about my heart nor my personal, Spiritual life. Yet when I disagree with you, and present the reasons for that disagreement you have repeatedly turned to making personal accusations about my Spirituality.
Plenty of my friends here disagree with me, some frequently, some less often. And in our disagreements neither of us suggest that the other person is being unwilling to seek the answer from God. This is because we accept that we both view the other person as equals in Christ, equally committed to Christ, equally following Christ, equally studying and praying to understand Him to the extent of our ability. When we start with that assumption about others, we may disagree with them, we may believe that they haven't adequately examined all of the relevant Scripture on a subject, but we never assume that they are not as Spiritually connected or dedicated as we are. |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1878
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 4:22 pm: | |
This kind of confuses me:
quote:God addressed that when the Israelites were about to enter the promised land.
He said in Deuteronomy 12:3-4;
"And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things."
Isn't this one of those 613 commandments of the Old Covenant that was abolished? Do we keep the commandments of the OC or NC or which ones? And if we are bound to keep the OC, aren't we bound to keep the whole thing?
Hec |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13250
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 4:44 pm: | |
Good point, Hec. Paul is quite detailed in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8-9 that all things are lawful, but not all things are helpful.
Idolatry is always a sin...but we are not asked to separate from society the way Israel was. For example, we may choose to boycott Hallowe'en, and I would have no problem with someone boycotting it. Or we might choose to bring light into the darkness and stage, as our church does, a community event on Halloween where the gospel is presented in an optional show, where there are rows and rows of game booths, a petting zoo, and so forth. The point of this event is to "light the darkness", and interestingly, this event draws the largest numbers of new visitors to Trinity Church on Sundays.
I believe we have no business representing ourselves as honoring "pagan systems", but this doesn't mean that we should not use the commonly accepted decorations if they're meaningful to us.
Whatever is not of faith is sin, Paul said in Romans 14:23.
Colleen |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 2023
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 4:08 pm: | |
Dianne, I'm just wondering what your motivation was for this thread. Was it to cast judgement against Christians who celebrate Christmas? Was it to point out the evils and paganism (in your opinion) of Christmas? Was it to direct the readers to the Hebrew Roots Movement? Maybe you were just looking for an outlet to vent while many Christians celebrate Christmas?
What gives? You do this pretty much every year. It's confusing because no one here has insisted that you celebrate Christmas.
Just curious.
Leigh Anne |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 412
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 8:46 pm: | |
Just MHO, but I think Ric makes valid points concerning credible, accurate sources. Facts vs. opinions. History and theology can become terribly confused, if not outright wrong, especially, on the Internet.
There are thousands of sites claiming to be "Watchmen" for Truth, but many of their opinions are claimed to be facts when they are not.
Leigh Anne makes a very valid point (one of many) that we all operate under a pagan (sort of ) calendar. Sunday could be a pagan worshipping of the sun. Do we stop going to church on Sunday, the day of the week Christ arose?
NO! Christ transcended every single pagan concept. He has made all his own and redeemable, more and more, perfected when he comes again.
Dianne, I was once like you, but after a couple of decades of finding truth, I realized that the Adventist paradigm of trying to convince everyone about my truth made me still hooked to Adventism pressure to "be a witness" and convert others.
There is a time to admonish and a time to live,let live, and let God.
Dianne, I almost got caught up in this pagan Christmas issue because of an ex-SDA friend of mine. Then, by God's grace, I researched more and found balance and freedom in Christ instead of extremism.
I didn't have to speak and rail against so many things anymore. It was a relief to stop seeing darkness and conspirasies everywhere. It was a relief to stop feeling it was my responsibility to save all I knew--basically, in my own image of thinking and understanding not Scripture's concerning Christ.
It was pure freedom to realize that I am no one's personal Holy Spirit.
Like I said before, I am not comfortable in this mode, but sometimes, what you post is very offensive to those of us in Liturgical and Sacremental denominations. Some posted things have almost made me leave the forum for good (Marysroses did and I miss her).
Sacramental issues are precious and vital to those of us who experience these Means of Grace and sacred acts of God.
Honestly, I hate the blasphemy (to some of us) that occurs on this forum at times.
I don't know if any of this is coherent and I am sorry, if I offended you. I truly do not desire to hurt you nor disrespect you. I know how much you desire all to be "saved". I just had to speak because I went through all this too.
BTW, the early Church Fathers recognized "Nominal Truth"; meaning that some truths (like the Virgin birth of a god's son) was real truth corrupted by Evil throughout time; twisted into a human likeness, not God's. But the foundations of God's truth were the beginnings which became pagan in time and the Devil's work to deceive.
God bless your New Year, Dianne.
In Christ, sister,
Cathy
cathoosier@gmail.com |
Marysroses
Registered user
Username: Marysroses
Post Number: 269
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 9:59 am: | |
Hi Cathy,
I'm here. I read but its true I don't post much, but I do once in a while. Its also true I took a long break, but life happens and sometimes its just hard to get back into the habit.
I agree that some posts make those of us who belong to a liturgical/sacramental tradition feel unwelcome. On the other hand, the Tinkers are very open and generous in allowing all of us to share this board, and its focus on Evangelical Christianity (sorry if I'm not using that definition correctly) is clear and plain from the beginning. I think the solution is simple Charity in our interactions. No one here agrees completely on a great many things. Disagreeing on doctrine is different than attacking someone's personal relationship with Christ and their personal spirituality. Just my two cents.
As far as the tree, my family keeps Christmas very well, from the beginning of Advent, St. Nicholas Day (when the kids get their treats) to all 12 days of Christmas and we leave the candles and Greens up until Candlemas Day Feb 2! Makes the winter warm and faith filled.
Merry 6th day of the feast of Christmas!
Marysroses |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 10:22 am: | |
~Maryroses~
I know that your post#269 was written to Cathy~
However, I wanted to tell you that it has
blessed me~Thank-you~
~All Blessings~ in the~ New Year~2012~
~*~mj~*~ |
Cortney
Registered user
Username: Cortney
Post Number: 296
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2012 - 10:00 pm: | |
Yes, not to name anybody, there are certain persons on the forum with a "know-it-all" and "call you out" attitude and the arrogance shines through. Luckily, you can take a break if need be, and just understand the best thing is to pray for these persons and not reciprocate the behavior. Colleen and Richard seem to be very tolerant of formers in other denominations  |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7541
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 4:04 am: | |
Happy New Year everybody...well its 3:00 AM on January 2nd, 2012.
Marysroses, so glad to see you here. I just love that name.
All the decorations are about down. My wife decorates for Christmas in a big, and I mean a BIG way. Every nook and corner is decorated with the Christmas theme and it is a beautiful house I live in because she makes it that way.
I'm sort of lazy about going to all that work so she gets the kids to help her, but this year I surprised her with a contribution. I had a train in my shop that is of the 80's vintage in perfect condition. I decided to pull it down and dust off the box and it fit perfect on the dining table.
Here is the link I think will work.
http://s928.photobucket.com/albums/ad127/river_12/?action=view¤t=train-2.jpg
I really do appreciate my wife for all the work she does at Christmas, she works for weeks to raise money at the office to see that every child in the park gets a gift, so many of them have single parent homes where money is very tight and some live with their elderly grand mothers who have to make it on a little social security.
I kind of feel a little sadness at the passing of Christmas,as we gathered for Christmas, so much laughter and fun and great grand babies first Christmas.
I am just bored anymore with the discussions every year about the validity of Christmas, guess I'm getting long in the tooth.
I'm going to give my wife a long hug this morning and tell her how much I appreciate her work to make our house a home.
Hope everyone on the forum had a Merry Christmas and a house filled with love and joy.
Best wishes from our house to your house.
River |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13270
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 10:42 pm: | |
Awesome train, River! And happy new year to you, too! We had a wonderful Christmas and new year's Eve, and now the house is cleaned up and the decorations put away. (Yes--it took most of the day to de-decorate!)
And yes, it's good to hear from you again, Marysroses! Enjoy your extended Christmas celebration!
Colleen |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 434
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2012 - 11:11 pm: | |
Merry Christmas late, River and Marysroses.
Colleen, thank you for being you.
Love in Christ,
Cathy |
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