| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1280 Registered: 5-2007 |
There is no question I need to find a church and get back into a fellwship with other Christians. It has not been easy and there are reasons why I have not been able to make the transition. For one, processing out of SDA also means detecting and sorting through the errors of theology I spent most of my life learning. Issues of mistrust in anything I read or hear. Now I have to prove out everything and trying to do that with entrenched filters at play makes it even harder to see truths. Takes time. The other is , I have spent a lot of time trying to learn the outlines of beliefs of each church. I understand there is no perfect church. A church is home to sinners needing grace. I get that. So I try to sort out what are the main things that will promote Spiritual growth and Peace with God through Grace. I have come up with the basics so far. They must preach the true Gospel of Christ. Grace in Christ plus nothing else for salvation. Now here are the hangups. Virtually ever church I have researched and visited continue to teach grace plus mandatory , expected , guilt trip, works. Examples. Modeling the 10 commandments with various edits or respin of the fourth. Paying Tithes. These confuse me , since they represent a return to the law system. In one study they may teach grace, but in another study they teach law. In one they put away the OT dispensation entirely, yet they borrow the tithe system as never having been canceled. they attempt to keep the parts of the law system that serve their purposes of control while at the same time trying to teach the Gospel and grace. This in turn tells me that they have the same type of screwed up theology as the SDA are accused of. Mixing the law with grace. Spiritual adultery ! So, where is this elusive church to be found? A church that does not teach tithing as a requirement, a church that does not try to post the ten commandments in it's catechism (sp) or on the court house walls? I am looking for a church that teaches grace alone. It is not about offerings, or license to sin here that I speak of. It is about which way am I to go. Back to law standards or to living by grace. If it is law, I think then that the SDA have that covered pretty well. At least I won't have to learn it all over again. I understand the fruits concepts. But it is the basis and motivators that concerne me the most. Law based or Grace based theology. Jim | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1281 Registered: 5-2007 |
Another Church issue; Abortion. I just don't get it. How can any church take the cop out position of saying it is up the mother to take the life of her unborn child. Sure , they all say , they are against it in principal, but in the vein of concilatory acceptance they allow for the discretion of the mother. Now , I understand that once it is done, the mother will certainly need forgiveness and healing. My issue is with taking a back seat to it as a personal matter. We are talking a child's life here. A church should be cleary set against it and supportive in every possible way to assist and aid in the prevention of such a tragedy. When I found out that the SDA hospitals were performing abortions it floored me. I am not trying to attack or accuse any one who has gone through this. I have tried to comfort and pray with an inlaw who went through the aftermath of it. If a church is wishy washy about abortion, it is not worth it's salt. Now that may mean I am being judgemental in some way, accusatory. It's not that at all. It's the life of the child screaming for love to live. How can a Christian not hear that cry? Maybe , I am disillusioned. Things just don't make sense. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2079 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jim; I feel the same way about abortion. To me, it's all the same whether someone kills a baby before he/she is born as afterward. I mean, isn't a two-year old child just as dependent on the mother as an unborn child? I'm astonished when I read a news article about someone being charged with murder for killing a two-year old while at the same time, abortion is encouraged! I would suggest trying a non-denominational Christian church. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1284 Registered: 5-2007 |
Asurprise, Society has already proved it makes no sense when it comes to it's values. The idea of abortion is so abhorent to love , it stuns me that any Christian church could be passive about it. I have been thinking about a non denom. My area has none near me. Though I may possibly be able to find one further from home. I pray that God will direct me to where He would have me go. I can deal with the mixed up theology because I understand why it happens. But a church that does not stand firmly for the life of a child is not a church I would join. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12917 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, a couple of observations: Mainline churches have, to a great degree, drifted away from respecting the authenticity and reliability of Scripture, and they will likely preach things OTHER than the gospel. They'll be preaching a social gospel, or an emergent viewpoint, or they will be ignoring Scripture and allowing things the Bible declares to be sin. Abortion is one of those. Look for a church that teaches straight from Scripture and that always makes Jesus and the cross central. Check out their websites, but remember that in these days, mainline churches are often not the ones where you will find Scripture actively taught and the cross central to everything. I agree with Asurprise above: I suggest trying a non-denominational Bible church, or you might check out a Calvary Chapel or an Evangelical Free Church. In some places people have found Baptist churches where they hear Scripture preached, or in some places, Presbyterian churches preach from Scripture. You can't pick a church by its label, however. You have to actually visit, because each church differs from others. Inside Christianity it's more important that a church honors the total reliability of Scripture and makes Jesus and the cross central than it is to worry overly much about tithe. Yes, tithing is a problem...but you can hear some awfully good Bible preaching from some pastors who still teach tithing. Yes, I believe that teaching tithing represents a misunderstanding of the new covenant, but they may still be able to teach good Bible lessons. Colleen | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2011 |
I do agree that it's wrong for a church to be so passive about abortion. SDA is so passive about it. These days people are so caught up in "not offending" that they will just let anything go by and not say anything or do anything. I do think a non-denominational or inter-denominational church would be the best idea. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1286 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank you Colleen. I will search out those suggestions. Jim | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 242 Registered: 10-2009  |
An (Old) article copy and pasted from my blog: Finding the Right Church Even if you’ve been convicted by The Holy Spirit to accept Christ as your savior, and have in fact done so, you’re still likened to a baby. It’s true because you have to relearn and restructure your belief system, after all as I’ve noted in earlier posts once you accept Christ God accepts you. And once God accepts you and grants you eternal life by your faith and His unending love and grace, you have a huge amount of discovering to do. One of the things that should be at the top of your list is finding a church family to help nurture you in your Christian walk. Now I know that to some this conjures up daydreams of boredom inducing sermons, a lot of rules and regulations and wearing ties and suits (and nice dresses for the ladies). And I can honestly say there are plenty of churches that are very much like that in fact I experienced first hand the to be frank, boredom of being Holy and nicely dressed one day of the week. And being like normal folks the remaining six, but since those days I’ve learned quite a lot about the difference between “Religion” and the Relationship that Jesus longs to share through a loving and alive church family. So where do you begin? There are a great multitude of religions out there, and they all claim to be the right one and that in and of itself can be quite frustrating to the new believer. It is in my humble opinion that for the most part Satan loves that there’s this multitude of religions because it plays right into his strategy. His strategy is simple, get people so freaked out by the number of religions, (all once again claiming to be “the one”), that they just give up and say not for me. This is where one has to remember that the only thing that matters is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Believing that His death on the cross covered each and every one of your sins, forever. And that God’s amazing grace granted you eternal life through the death of His son. Those are the ONLY entrance requirements into the kingdom of God, if you have done that and confessed to the Lord, you are a child of God. Those last two paragraphs are key; if you’re committed to Christ then God is committed to you. However God does want us to enjoy the fellowship of believers of like mind, because it helps in our Christian growth. Here I’m going to list a number of ways to find a group of believers that fits your needs as a new believer. 1: Ask other Christians you know. You’ll certainly find out those who are Christian around you, they’ll notice a difference in you and you’ll notice a sense in which you just seem to know. Once you talk to your Christian friends about their beliefs it’s probable that you’ll find someone with a set of beliefs that fits yours. While you chat about such matters you only need to ask where they attend church, once you find out you can also do the next step. 2: Check out that Church (and others) on the Internet. If I only had the Internet when I was younger I could have found my way to a clear view of Biblical truth so much faster. Anyhow, most churches have websites. In some cases they can cover a denomination, in other cases they can cover a local church that’s part of a denomination. There are some churches that are non-denominational that belong to a countrywide family of churches. For instance I grew up in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, and still have many friends who are SDA, since 2003 I’ve been attending Calvary Chapel which a short and very nice stint in a small Assembly of God congregation. I now attend The Packinghouse, which is the name of the Calvary Chapel branch if you will in Redlands CA (www.thepackinghouse.org.) Websites though are founts of information, here are a few of the things you can check out quickly and simply using whatever device you use to surf the net. A: Statement of Faith (Beliefs) These are the key doctrines that the church you’re looking at agrees to, they can cover a good number of subjects however they key thing you want to make sure is that you find a church family that agrees with what the Holy Spirit has led YOU to believe. B: Audio Archives/Blogcasts Nothing beats scanning through lists of messages in other words Teachings, Sermons and Bible Studies. Most sites will have them listed Topically, By Book, By Year, Guest Speakers and Series. Some will also have video files to watch, the majority will be downloadable, some sites even have sermon notes. This enables you to practically visit the church without driving there and using precious gas. You get a feel for the kind of teaching style the pastor has, you also get you follow along in your Bible and see if you agree with Him or Her. Once again the key is to find a pastor that teaches in agreeance with what the Holy Spirit has led YOU to believe. C: Child Care, Classes, Directions and Service Times. All of these things are of differing levels of importance based on each individual person/families needs and all will be found on a churches website usually within moments. I’ve found that most church websites are designed really well to ease a visitor and help them find what they need quickly. Eventually you are going to want to try out a church and all the above hints will help you out but I think the most important factor is the leading of the Holy Spirit. Remember the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. In other words take it up with GOD himself He will lead you to the correct church to help in your spiritual growth. In Christ, Ross | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1290 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank you Ross Jim | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 575 Registered: 5-2009  |
Ross, I would disagree that Christian churches are each claiming to be the right one. I have not found that to be the case at all. I believe it's one of those SDA myths that subtly encourages people to stay within their comfort zone rather than to *risk* picking the wrong *true* church. Overwhelmingly, I've found this to be the case: Christians (regardless of denomination) see themselves as part of the Body of Christ. They are all believers (believers come in different flavors). They're not in competition with each other and baptism by one church and membership in one church is transferable across denominations. To me, that speaks volumes. (If it's really about Jesus, as SDAs claim, then why do you have to take SDA baptismal vows and get rebaptized to join them?) Anyway, I just wanted to dispel that myth and even the notion that it's Satan's plan to have so many religious groups in order to confuse and frustrate us. Just because you carry a different label, doesn't mean you are divided. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12925 Registered: 12-2003 |
Cloudwatcher, I love your last sentence: "Just because you carry a different label, doesn't mean you are divided." This "label" situation is one of those confusing things because we all thought we belonged to a "different denomination" when in reality, we belonged to a "cult". Think about the word "denomination" as it relates to money: the bills represent different amounts of money, and those different bills are called "denominations". But those denominations are all subdivisions of one consistent monetary system within a country. Adventism does not belong to the Christian "tree" which sprang from the apostolic root. It sprang, late, from a group of Arian founders who firmly taught anti-trinitarianism and who taught an incomplete atonement. That "root" is not part of Christianity. Yes! Colleen | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2009 |
Cloudwatcher right you are, I think I was confusing two points. Whatever the case thanks for pointing that out, Perhaps leter this week I'll go back and edit that post to make things clearer. Thanks again. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1321 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colleen, I searched for the churches you suggested. There are none available within reasonable range. The Churches available are: Church of Christ. Several Baptists Churches Two Methodists Church of God (Pentecostal) 2 Catholic Lutheran Non denom (associated with Methodists church) 2 SDA Even though I have visted both Methodists churches. The abortion issue is a conflict for me. I had wanted to find a church close to home so I could go more often. I live in a small town and the medium size churches are a distance away. The Catholic church is probably a non starter. Ditto on the SDA Church of God, nice folks, I just was not engaging. That leaves Baptists and Lutheran. The Baptist churches as you have suggested are wide range and that takes a lot of research , trial and error. The Lutheran is more subdued and they are clearly pro life. Kind of leaning that way. But I have not ruled out the Baptist. My choices are limited. I remind myself, in the old days, you got one church in most towns. At this point, I am trying to just get motivated and go. Get past the confusions and doubts. A part of me wants God to help me choose. In fact, that has been the desire all along. To "know" where I belong. Being outside so long has left me doubting in some ways, guessing in others. Has to be a reason why? I really wanted to be able to join a church with earnest, rather than pensive attendance. "What church are you from" , Oh , I don't have a church, I am Christian and would like to find a church to belong too" Anything but "former SDA", 'Here's your sign'. I kind of think I have to Run Silent for a long long time wherever I go. I cannot afford embarassment with questions that make people think I am an idiot. Certainly, I cannot presume to teach or inject my thoughts. Been backhanded so many times I do not feel validated in even what I think. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1248 Registered: 7-2004  |
I was blessed for months attending a Methodist church during our transition out of SDAism. In hindsight there were some ways in which it made an excellent transitionary church. I know several families that have had the same experience. We tried a number of Baptist churches that didn't pan out. But I know that many formers have found solid, long-term homes in Baptist churches. Like many formers, one of our first attractions was to non-denominational churches. I know from hearing peoples' stories that there are many excellent ones. Our local choices were less positive. But I wouldn't rule that option out if I moved somewhere new. I, and several other members here, have found good homes (makes us sound like stray cats...) in Lutheran churches. If you go that route and have any questions, please ask. The teaching and the church service are very different from SDAism (why sometimes the Methodist or Baptist worship traditions are more comfortable and familiar to former SDAs). Personally, I think even a mediocre Baptist or Lutheran church would be a better choice than nothing. Don't be afraid to say that you don't currently have a church, haven't been attendng anywhere but are starting to look around for a church home. Any questions you get are likely to be polite ones trying to get to know you better. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1323 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank You Rick. I have been to the Lutheran Church twice. It is a distance, but may likely be my best option. Jim | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2138 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jim; I like the non-denominational Christian churches - perhaps you could try a Calvary Chapel  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12985 Registered: 12-2003 |
Rick's observations are good. Even though the liturgical service of the Lutheran churches may be off-putting, the conservative synods, like the Missouri Synod, hold a high view of Scripture, understand the gospel, and are very clear about the roles of law and grace...including Sabbath being in Christ. One of our observations is that some of the significant apologists we know, most notably James Valentine but others as well, are Lutherans. I'm not sure if there's a simple conclusion we can draw from this or not, but for sure those we know who are Lutheran have a very clear understanding of the gospel and can "smell" false teaching before they "see" it—so to speak! Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1325 Registered: 5-2007 |
This is the church I am praying about. http://www.mount-calvary.net/ It is Missouri Synod. Jim | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1637 Registered: 12-2007  |
Jim, I read the "What we believe" and "Bible study" links on that site and I have to say......If I lived anywhere near, I would like to attend there myself ! I hope you will go and find fellowship and great blessings |
