| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1238 Registered: 5-2007 |
What was the purpose of Christ's 40 days in the wilderness. If it was impossible to fail, or fall or be tempted then what was the actual purpose? | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 140 Registered: 1-2011 |
From my understanding--this was preparation for His ministry, spending time without the crowds that would soon be following Him, just time spent with the Father. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2047 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jesus never stopped being God, but He came here to be Man, keep the law as Man and die as Man. He came as the second Adam to do what the first didn't - to live a perfect life in our behalf. He didn't give up the power of choice. He could have turned the stones into bread. It wouldn't have been a temptation if He couldn't have. Remember the Holy Spirit coming down upon Him right before His wilderness temptation? He lived by the power of the Holy Spirit, though He didn't give up any of His power of being God. He just chose not to use it. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3770 Registered: 10-2004  |
Jim, The purpose of the temptation in the wilderness was to show and prove that Jesus Christ is without sin, that He is perfectly sinless and could not sin. He was the Lamb of God, without spot or blemish. He was tempted/tested and shown to be without sin. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3771 Registered: 10-2004 |
Asurprise, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the one and the same God. The power of the Holy Spirit cannot be contrasted with the power of Jesus, saying that one was "used" and the other was not. There are not three "divine powers" as Ellen White taught. Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7470 Registered: 9-2006  |
The Bible says in Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 2:18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted. He was 100% God and also 100% man, I take it it was for our sakes he was subjected to temptation, not his. Jesus was never on trial. River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2049 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jeremy; how can we do greater things than Jesus could do? (John 14:12) Because we too have the Holy Spirit and there are a lot more of us. Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit, so obviously He and the Holy Spirit are not the same, though it takes all three members of the trinity to be "God." John 16:7 says: "Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you." Satan was tempting Jesus to use His God power to turn stones into bread, etc... Jesus knew He was supposed to live His life on Earth as a man, so He didn't give in, though He had free choice and could have. Jesus did not use His God power to defeat the enemy. He used scripture. That's what we're supposed to do when we're tempted is to use scripture. The Bible says that Jesus was tempted like we are. He was able to be the second Adam because He was born without a sin nature. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2050 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thank-you River  Come to think of it, God cannot die; but Jesus could because He became a man. He could have sinned too, but He chose not too. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3774 Registered: 10-2004 |
That argument only means something if "die" means "cease to exist" in both instances. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3775 Registered: 10-2004 |
Do you realize that we were taught a different "Trinity" in Adventism than the Christian doctrine of the Trinity? (See my website at http://www.cultorchristian.com/ for more information.) God is one Being, not a group of three separate beings. Jesus did not just live His life on earth as a man. He lived His life on earth as the God-man--fully God and fully man. In fact, His eternal/immutable/unchangeable divine nature did not change at all in the Incarnation. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on August 21, 2011) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2051 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jeremy; I agree that Jesus "lived His life on earth as the God-man--fully God and fully man." He just didn't use His God power. That's what the temptation was all about - to use His God power. When people die, they don't cease to exist. They go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus, Who is fully God, didn't cease to exist either. He became a man Who could die. We have three parts to our own selves. (1st Thessalonians 5:23) God has three parts too, but somehow He can separate them. Otherwise Jesus wouldn't have said that He would send the Comforter when He left. Elohim is a plural one. God said; "let us make man..." | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3776 Registered: 10-2004 |
Asurpise,
He was not "fully God" if He was not the one and only God. He was not "fully God" if He was not "all of God." He was not "fully God" if He did not have the divine attribute of omnipotence (almighty, infinite power). He was not "fully God" if He did not have the divine attribute of immutability. He was not "fully God" if He did not use His "God power." That's what (who) God is--He is all-powerful and exercises His sovereign power over all things at all times (and is Himself in His divine nature outside of time).
Exactly my point. Therefore, God can die by becoming a human with a human body and dying a bodily physical human death. But God cannot sin no matter what--it is against His very nature. In fact, God cannot even be tempted by evil (James 1:13).
I hope you realize that what you are espousing is not the historic, orthodox creedal doctrine of the Trinity that the Christian Church has always taught. This can be demonstrated very easily by turning to the historic ecumenical Creeds of the Church. Your view can also be demonstrated to be unBiblical, but that is a different matter altogether. (For the Biblical basis of the historic orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, see the following excellent study by Christian apologist and counter-cult researcher Robert Bowman: http://www.irr.org/trinity-outline.html) God is not made up of three parts, and certainly not three separated parts. In the Gospel of John, Jesus not only said that He would send the Holy Spirit, but that He Himself (and the Father!) would come live in us (our spirits). The New Testament over and over again makes it clear that Jesus Himself indwells us. Since God is one simple (not complex, or aggregate/made up of parts) Being, orthodox Christianity has always confirmed the following Biblical truth: Wherever the Father is, there is the Son and the Holy Spirit. Wherever the Son is, there is the Father and the Holy Spirit. Wherever the Holy Spirit is, there is the Father and the Son. One question: is your understanding of the Trinity the same as it was when you were an Adventist? Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7471 Registered: 9-2006 |
Asurprise, maybe it would help for you to read John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. That is correct. River | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 87 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Jeremy~ Thank-you so much for your excellent explanation regarding the Trinity & also the link for Robert Bowman~ One of the most difficult beliefs I had to work my way through when coming out of adventism was the Truth about WHO hung on the cross for my sins~past, present & future~I had the adventist belief of~ well it was poor (able to sin at any moment~Jesus) When I finally really believed it was 'GOD' on that cross for me I wept &literally prostrated my self on my bedroom floor in prayers of Thankfulness~Now He lives in me~because I have accepted His sacrifice for me!When I see the cross I see His LOVE~ ~mj~ | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3778 Registered: 10-2004 |
Asurprise, I agree with River--John 20:28 is a very powerful verse. And the Greeks is even more emphatic: "The Lord of me and *the God* of me!" [*ho theos--with the definite article, literally "THE God"] Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on August 22, 2011) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3779 Registered: 10-2004 |
mj, Wow. Thanks for sharing your testimony. Yes, it is incredible to see who Jesus really truly IS, isn't it?! Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12876 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thank you for sharing that story, Mj. It is truly amazing. Truly. Colleen | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Colleen & Jeremy~ I wrote the above through tears~ ~mj~ | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 815 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thank-you Jeremy for the link. When I get time I am hoping I will be able to print it off. Gail | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2054 Registered: 7-2007 |
I agree that Jesus is fully God. I also believe that Jesus became fully man. I believe that... "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." Hebrews 2:18 It's obvious that he was tempted. He couldn't have been tempted if He couldn't have done what He was He was tempted to do. I also believe that He felt our temptations, because: "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1242 Registered: 5-2007 |
I appreciate the insights. Jim |
