| Author | Message | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 199 Registered: 8-2010  |
As I was leaving the Adventist institution in 2009 I was still moving between the shadow and light. Although the Holy Spirit was clearly ushering me out of Adventism, I could see by what and how I wrote my family's exit letter the clay was still in the process of hardening. One of the last things I did in Adventism was serve on the Pathfinders team as a "Drill instructor". With my time in the Marine Corps Close Order Drill (COD) was easy to do. Something struck me one Saturday as I was listening to the Club's Director read from the Pathfinder manual about the honors. It was the noticeable fact each HONOR included a statement from EGW as to why that specific honor was important, but nary did I hear a Scriptural comment on the honor. I found it odd that anyone should care what SDA Chairman Mao thought about COD or what she said about tying knots. Yet there always seemed to be a quote from her books that the program wanted to apply to every aspect of the club?! I'll be honest that in my mind, if EGW was around I had some choice Marine Corps words for her at the time that would have made her faint. That is when the my personal volume on the EGW issue was sealed for me. We had her quoting and commenting on every bit of the Christian life yet it was an issue on which Scripture was silent. I have since learned to read Scripture's silence on an issue as an indication that the matter itself is neither "Good nor Bad" (i.e., benign) to engage in, but it is for the believer to apply their Christian walk and faith to honestly decide for themselves if it is wrong. It is not antinomianism, rather this is what Paul writes about in Romans when he says we have a NEW MASTER and if we live it is to honor the Lord. Yet we Adventists look to EGW to think and to tell us what is Holy and un-Holy. THIS IS EXACTLY THE ADVENTIST VERSION OF the 613 MIZVOT of the JEWS. In thier desire to replace Israel as God's Chosen people Adventists don't have the Sanhedrin or the Mizvot they have EGW and the Testimonies! This was a prime example of how Adventism uses EGW as stated in #18 of their Fundamental Beliefs-- Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort,guidance, instruction, and correction. Propagandize the youth with EGW verses and sprinkle some Scripture texts for good measure. It is how we end up telling them it is not OK to swim in the lake on the Sabbath but dipping your toes will will be OK. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9280 Registered: 3-2004  |
My son wanted to teach COD to the Pathfinders when he was waiting to get into college. He learned the COD in the Civil Air Patrol. Some how he never did. Thank you awesome God for that. Diana L | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1230 Registered: 7-2005  |
About dipping your toes in the lake (or swimming pool)...I always thought that was a very strange doctrine/lifestyle practice. It was just ONE of the kooky ideas that revealed to me that Adventism reveres EGW above the Bible. Adventists really do make it up as they go along. Even EGW's writings are open to interpretation and applied differently from one Adventist to another. Some of the Adventists I knew applied EGW's writings strictly and others applied it very loosely. Just to be fair, though. I have known many non-Adventist Christians who apply the Bible to their lives in vastly differing ways, also. Even people in the same denomination and the same church. Even in the same small group. However, the difference is that Adventists have the extra-Biblical resource of EGW's writings to add to the Bible as their guide of faith and practice. Most Christians use only the Bible. Although, I have also witnessed many Christians using the latest popular Christian author as their guide of faith and practice as well. Back in the 70s in Charismatic churches, it was all the rage to get rid of all the figurines or trinkets that looked like frogs. This was directly related to a book that became popular back then that "suggested" that a good Christian will not have any object in their homes that has any connection whatsoever to the occult. The book explained that one of the reasons the frogs were one of the plagues released on the Egyptians was that one of their idols was a deification of a frog. Hence, the reasoning went, for a Christian to have a frog figurine or other object with the picture of a frog on it in their house, that was the a spiritual force that attracted demons to them. I knew several people who got rid of everything frog-like (figurines, hot pan holders, kitchen towels, note cards, etc.) in their homes because of this teaching. This teaching on frogs, however, was only a flash in the pan of Christian thought. It did not have the staying power of the Adventist idol - EGW. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7332 Registered: 9-2006  |
Back in the 70's ( I take it you are old enough to still be with me,  ) the pendulum swung pretty far out. The difference is though that when the pendulum swings wildly, it begins to settle back down immediately into its steady arc, or beat..however one might want to put that. I've noticed this over a period of 39 years honest witness. I never was one to vear into those wild pendulum swings. Not that it was a feather in my hat for avoiding them, it was God who kept my nose to the grind stone (so to speak). I remember the 70's..I'll bet we could talk over old times. Of course your much younger and better looking than I am. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7333 Registered: 9-2006 |
I might get younger though, if I could just keep my body off the pavement for awhile. I might even be better lookin'! Right now I look like an Ace bandage. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 966 Registered: 7-2008  |
no comment.... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12728 Registered: 12-2003  |
Wiredog, very good observation. In fact, just take a look at this quote. Nowisee found it in the Pacific Union Recorder; it was so revealing that I had to incorporate it into the Great Controversy article, even though I was basically done with it. Here's the quote:
His mediation ends, and there's no more sacrifice for sin. Yet Hebrews says He lives forever to make intercession for us. Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2511 Registered: 5-2007  |
No comment, what do you me no comment? Not me…..he he! River, your Facebook photos make you look like a triage patient escapee.  I feel pain just looking at the bandages. Fearless Phil | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2512 Registered: 5-2007 |
My last year in the Marine Corps I was on the color guard for the San Francisco Bay stationed at Treasure Island. They had me do Queen Aunt Drill with an M-1 rifle and a crome plated bayonet fixed on the end for the Marine Corps Birthday Ball at the Marine Club. When I threw my rifle into the air I was terrified to death I was going to kill some famous retired general and thought; "They sure wouldn't have let me do this when I was in the Pathfinders". Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7334 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: “To hold the people in darkness and impenitence till the Savior’s mediation is ended, and there is no longer a sacrifice for sin, is the object which he [Satan] seeks to accomplish" (EGW, The Great Controversy, p. 581). What he seeks to accomplish is to wear down the saints, because he knows we can kick his butt, he also knows that not all of the saints know that. Where did that woman get her information Colleen, off the box top of her Cracker Jacks? River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7335 Registered: 9-2006 |
Phil, promise me one thing, you won't ever try to show me that Marine Corps rifle maneuver. River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2513 Registered: 5-2007 |
After posting my last comments I had to ask myself; “just what was Wiredog's theme when he started this thread because I seemed to have gotten way off track here. So, I went back and reread what was on his mind. How in the world did Ellen White become so foolish as to expound on so many diverse aspect of life and just why were so many folks so silly as to believe her? Anyway, an example from my own experience comes to mind. I went through an apprenticeship and was employed at three different naval shipyards over the course of twenty-five years. Eventually I became recognized as a ‘subject matter expert’ in all matters pertaining to the performance of my trade. However, there was a well defined boundary that no one could cross. To begin with I was required to followed engineered blueprints. It was never up to me to question the naval architect unless they contained something unclear or impossible to comply with. In that case, the engineering people would evaluate my problem and produce what answers I needed. In short engineers would tell me what needed doing and often would provide detailed instructions on how to do it, but there was one certain area they never crossed over into. They never ever told me how to do what they required. Let me give a simple example of what I mean. Unless you were a metallurgist with practical understand of the characteristics of metals you would not know how to put a sharp bend in thick aluminum plate without causing it to crack. In-other-words, the engineer would know what shape the piece needed to be but not how to work the material into that shape. Years ago the engineers learned that there was a certain alloy that would resist hot combustion gas corrosion but with all their engineering expertise could not solve the riddle of how to build a ball valve out of this material. Being smarter ‘than the average bear’ they came to the mechanic who work at the bench next to me and ask him if he could do it. Two and a half years later he gave them a completed ball valve along with a detailed written procedure. Ellen White is like certain engineers who are too proud to go to the ones with coveralls on, swinging hammers and getting dirty to ask for answers for how metal really behaves in ways she could not possibly know. Instead, she produced a submarine design that cannot float. When the Lord returns for the launching ceremony all those on this boat will drown. Fearless Phil | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2011 |
Pathfinders--I finally became against it. I had studied all the classes as a kid and got all the bars on my uniform. I started work on my Master Guide (Master Comrade for the older generation) and stopped it because I went off to Andrews. I now realize that Pathdinders was drilling kids into war-like mentality. Marching and drilling is fine for real soldiers. I don't see any reason why young kids outside of Jr. ROTC need to be doing anything like that. I also wondered why the SDA church can't just have simple youth groups. Other denominations have clubs for their kids. They just get together and do stuff. Why must SDA kids earn badges, have organized classes to earn "class bars", and wear uniforms? What for? Also, since it is age 10-16 and co-ed, things can be awkward. Unless the club is big enough to split off into small groups for stuff--the 10 year old girl has to do the same stuff as the 15 year old boy. Some churches try to make a club with something like two 10 and 11 year old girls, a 13 yo boy, and two 14 yo boys. Silly. | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2011 |
Did anyone ever realize how much a Pathfinder uniform is like cars? Ford Ranger Ford Explorer Plymouth Voyager Nissan Pathfinder I had some funny comments by "non-Adventists" while in my uniform. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 496 Registered: 7-2010 |
Perhaps this would be better suited in it's own thread, but as I read Wiredog's post, it reminded me of something I've been thinking about lately. Here's the question that came to mind: "How many of the OT prophets, reiterated, interpreted, or otherwise expanded on what the previous prophets had said or had been recorded?" From what I've seen, EGW practically rewrote the Bible. Any ideas on this question? (We can discuss this in another thread if need be ). | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 200 Registered: 8-2010 |
No need to start a new thread. Personally I don't mind discussions taking off on a different course, I usually post something and am curious what evolves from it ;) However it it makes it easier for future searches lets do it! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7336 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: How in the world did Ellen White become so foolish as to expound on so many diverse aspect of life and just why were so many folks so silly as to believe her? There are two questions there that might need to be addressed individually. Good questions Phil. I believe the answer lies in several areas which could produce discussions all by themselves individually. I think the fact that people in her day may have been largely illiterate due to the fact that written information was harder to come by than in this day and time so news traveled by word of mouth. Also, it took more hours of a day to survive than it does now and in that day, work started at day break and ended with the setting of the sun. As to what caused her to go into these swoons, I think at this point in time we just don’t know. But people depending on others probably had a lot to do with why they followed her. I think the seeds had been sown by miller and when she went onto the swoons (probably caused by brain damage of some sort) they believed she was having some kind of spiritual experience instead of properly diagnosing the illness. As for White she probably didn’t know the difference, yet people around her, having believed Miller, began to place the responsibility on her for answers and this began to set her up to produce those answers. Soon a new religion was borned out of a sick mind. Satan don’t care if we are sick or well, young or old, blind or sighted, he is a destroyer, so he used all this to do just that, destroy the spiritual lives of those people. Soon the sight of the people were blinded like the Philistines blinded Sampson and put him to grinding at the mill. A mill in that time was two large cut stones with a pole bolted to the middle of the top stone and pushed by a man who went round and round to grind at the grain. Satan had people for his cruel mill and he set them to grinding, ever walking in circles and the resulting mess that pours out of that mill is putrid, inedible, and indigestible words. Many have remarked how Adventists use circular reasoning, and that is the result of grinding at Satan’s mill. When people got older they were raising their young to take their place at the pole, so when the fathers died and fell, the children were ready to take their place to grind day after day after day. One hundred and sixty years later Satan’s captives, like Sampson, grinds at that mill, have been blinded, their eyes punched out, then their hands roped to the pole to push hard, round and round. If you want to get a real good look at Adventism, then read the story of Sampson who was taken with the Philistine woman. Adventism, like Delilah may look pretty on the outside, but is deadly on the inside, and it can take even a bible believing evangelical person, punch out their eyes and the first thing they know, they will be pushing at that deadly pole, going in circles, and grinding at that mill. Young and silly women marry into that and the result is disastrous because they have entered upon the devils grinding floor, like Sampson was drawn to Delilah. The Philistines then capture her, put out her eyes and she will grind at that mill, her hands tied with the ropes of marriage, and she will weep while she grinds. We see through our natural eyes, but there are other eyes to see with, our spiritual eyes to see with. Our spiritual eyes are more important than our physical earthly eyes, for it is through our spiritual eyes we have discernment. River | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1149 Registered: 10-2008 |
Collen, Your quote, "There is no longer a sacrifice for sin" really disturbed me. There is a heresy so deep in that statement - that denies the substitutionary completed atonement of Jesus. I just cringed. What hope is there in that!!! How can an Adventist that believes in the tenets of their faith sing, "We have this hope that burns within our hearts, hope in the coming of the Lord?". If you look closely at your quote ... The hope is placed in oneself not Jesus, because Jesus is done mediating??? Any SDA reading this thread I encourage you to search for the Biblical Jesus with only your Bibles. Ask God to reveal Himself to you without any filters or barriers. You will find a grace that is so profound and a love that is indescribable. Jrt | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2007  |
"I found it odd that anyone should care what SDA Chairman Mao thought about COD or what she said about tying knots." Ha! In this context, my mind reads "COD" as "Counsels on Diet and Health"! Anyhoo, when my son was young, we encouraged him to join the pre-pathfinder group, the Adventurers (is there a corresponding SUV?) to get that scout experience. He got 2 badges that year, 1)puppets (please don't tell me there is a EGW qoute on puppets) and, 2)Early advent pioneers (read Ellen White.) My husband and I were taken aback at the EGW award, as we did not believe her to be inspired, but rather than make waves, we let him listen to the stories about getting hit by a rock and having visions, holding the big book, tithing, granola(?), etc. but reinstructed him when he got home that these stories were legends that were not true; that SDAs have a blind spot when it comes to EGW. Actually it was I who had the blind spot in regards to my own cognitive dissonance. I had cognitive dissonance in my mind for decades as an SDA, but having to explain and teach that cognitive dissonance to my son made me face it head on and that was a good thing. We started visiting other churches that had Saturday night services, once a month, then twice a month, then 3 times a month over a period of a couple years. We were surprised to find that other Christians did have the Truth, that is, Jesus. We continued to go to the SDA church at least once a month for a while so my son could see his friend, but when his friend moved we quit going altogether and never looked back. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1976 Registered: 7-2007 |
I thought that Ellen White EXPLAINED every aspect of Christianity when I was an Adventist. I thought that she was a true prophet who only seemed to contradict the Bible. I thought she somehow agreed with it and explained it more clearly! Whenever I read something in the Bible that contradicted Ellen White, I only thought that the Bible SEEMED to contradict her. I thought that the Bible really agreed with her and that I didn't understand it. I'd read contradicting passages through quickly and even skip over them, when I encountered them. A couple examples of them are: 16 "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16-17 21 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith" Philippians 1:21-25 |
