| Author | Message | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2010 |
My wife and I are keeping busy this summer with the Hebrews Bible Study offered through FAF's website. I highly recommend it and if your interested, here's the link: FAF Hebrews Study One thing that stood out to me this morning is found in Hebrews 7:25.
Based on the simple words of scripture, what this seems to be saying is that, as long as Jesus lives (which is eternally), he will always offer intercession for me and I never, ever, have to wonder or question where I stand with God. After reading this, I knew there was something wonky about what I had learned growing up Adventist. So I did a search on the EGW website and found what I was looking for. For the sake of any lurkers that may be reading this, here are a few statements from Ellen that directly contradict what God's Word has to say:
And another
Now, which Jesus is better? The one revealed in the Bible or from the pen of the Adventist prophet? I vote the Bible! | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2011 |
The Bible says that Jesus went to Heaven, sat down at the right hand of God. So yeah, nothing about an Investigative Judgment. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9275 Registered: 3-2004  |
I did that study 2 years ago. Loved every minute of it. And there is no IJ in it!! Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12727 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hebrews is an amazing book. I really disliked it as an Adventist; I didn't understand it, and it always had "icky" overtones about the "sanctuary doctrine". Who knew? It's all about Jesus and His gift of the New Covenant! Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1146 Registered: 10-2008 |
Thanks, no white hats. This is such a clear example of the difference between a false prophet and scripture. You can't refute Ellen's own words or what scripture actually teaches. | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2011 |
Hey Colleen, that's true. I didn't like the book of Hebrews when I was an sda either. I thought it was the most boring, complicated book ever. Now the most exciting parts were finding out that Jesus' atonement was done, and enough to cover my sins, and that he went to the Most Holy already, he didn't have to wait until 1844. When I read it now, I get excited  | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 194 Registered: 10-2009  |
Hebrews is an awesome book indeed! At Packinghouse the Tuesday night men's Bible study is going through Hebrews a few verses at a time. Being a co-leader of one of the small groups we split into I have to prepare a new set of study notes each week! Every day is a fantastic new discovery. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1229 Registered: 7-2005  |
Considering that Jesus was never a priest after the order of Aaron, but rather a priest after the order of Melchisedek, and considering that Jesus is the Eternal God, I don't believe Jesus ever LEFT the heavenly sanctuary, and hence, never had to go into the Most Holy. In whatever location Jesus is, THAT is the Most Holy Place. Always has been. Always will be. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7348 Registered: 9-2006  |
Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1233 Registered: 7-2005 |
Ok, River. You win. I was wrong. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7359 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hey, I wasn't trying to 'win', I merely pointed to some scripture so that you could decide for yourself. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1234 Registered: 7-2005 |
Ok. FIGURATIVELY speaking, Jesus left the heavenly sanctuary and then went back in. But LITERALLY, the omnipresent God, never was absent from the heavenly sanctuary. That's what I decided for myself. Thanks for helping me clarify that, River. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3737 Registered: 10-2004  |
Well, the verses don't say that He left--they just say that He entered. He entered "into heaven itself" (Hebrews 9:24), physically, as a man, at His ascension. But, He has always been, as you said, the omnipresent holy God. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12744 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praise God for that! I'm amazed how significant Jesus' eternal reality is...I continue to be amazed by who He really is. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7366 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well..we probably need to keep in mind that God furnished his own sacrifice, the sacrifice that we could not furnish ourselves. A shadow of that might be when Abraham was commanded to sacrifice his son, but God stayed his hand and furnished Abraham the sacrifice. Jesus was that living sacrifice, perfect and without spot or blemish. If we keep in mind that we were never able to furnish that sacrifice for ourselves, it helps to realize the trinity. Leastways it does help me. Or another shadow might be when Adam and Eve found themselves naked, it was the Lord who furnished skins to cover their nakedness. After the sacrifice for our sins was completed, then Jesus again entered into that Holy place that you seem to be saying he never left. Lets look at some scripture in Hebrews. Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Yes Colleen, what God has done just blows my mind and continues to amaze me no end. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7367 Registered: 9-2006 |
Nowhitehats says: Based on the simple words of scripture, what this seems to be saying is that, as long as Jesus lives (which is eternally), he will always offer intercession for me and I never, ever, have to wonder or question where I stand with God. No, we never have to wonder or question our stand with God, because his Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we have truly become the children of God and that not of ourselves. The book of Hebrews is truly a wonderful book with plenty to study from, and lets not forget the faith chapter when things seem to go against us. River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1235 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hebrews 9:9 above refers to the tabernacle as a "figure" of a spiritual reality. In the same way these earthly bodies are very different than our heavenly bodies will be, the heavenly sanctuary doesn't have to be an exact replica of the tabernacle. In fact, it could be so different it is not even made with material particles. Maybe it's so ethereal it's more like being in light, without walls or floors or ceilings, but just floating in light. As I said previously, wherever Jesus is located IS the most holy place. Because we are surrounded by the universe, which Jesus created and in which he is omnipresent, we too are in the most holy place right now, because we are in Him. It's all a figure to help us visualize a spiritual reality. We can stand in the same exact spot in the universe, without moving our physical bodies, and move from death to life in an instant, when Jesus gives us new birth. We moved from darkness into marvellous light by simply being still and "knowing" that He is God. There was no traveling from one end of the universe to the other, at least not by us. God is everywhere and he is everywhere powerful and effective. Time and space are not limiters to God. When he died on the Cross, his existence continued without a blip. If it did not, then he is not the eternal God. The act He performed while limiting his manifestation to a human form hanging on the cross was for us humans to have a visual and auditory experience that relayed to us his nature and his love for us. He performed the manifestation of his entire earthly life as a reaching out to us in love, inviting us into a relationship with him. There are no walls, no time, no space, no boundaries in that relationship. We are seated right now in heavenly places with Christ Jesus enjoying the astonishing mercy and vast forgiveness of God himself. We are in the most holy place with Jesus. |
