| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1076 Registered: 7-2004  |
I have heard it said a few different times that this forum simply discusses the same few things over and over again. It is usually brought up in a critical manner, but I believe that it is a true statement. The question that I came away with recently was wondering whether it was a good thing or a bad thing that these same issues are continually being rehashed. So I would like to discuss, what do we repeatedly post about and is that a good thing or not. First off I will choose the broad statement of Sola Scriptura. Discussions in this topic can take the form of a challenge about making beliefs truly Sola Scriptura. They can be questions about what that really means and how other authors fit into that viewpoint. There are questions about whether it is a necessary or even beneficial approach. There are discussions about the ways in which we have had Scripture ammended through SDA books and teachings. All of these topics, and more, can be summed into the single question of does Sola Scriptura matter. I think this is one of the most worthwhile discussions every time it comes up. It examines the foundation of our doctrines, our practices, and the basis for our faith. I think that it needs to come up as often as it does because of the ways in which SDAism manipulated and abused Scripture. We have all been deeply impacted in our views of Scripture, often in ways that we are still discovering years later. It requires plenty of re-examination of the same and similar elements of this point in order to start really grasping how to apply this consistently. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1077 Registered: 7-2004 |
What about the Calvinism v Arminianism debates that rehash every few months? I would have to conclude that these are not one of the most valuable topic rehashes. And i can say that as a central participant in several. I think that there is some benefit in Former and Transititioning SDAs understanding that there are these different viewpoints, in learning a little about what each one teaches and why. SDAism didn't always explore its relationship to the theological movements of the past and the doctrinal positions of the present. It is good to be able to place some perspective on this, but the time spent on the discussions is disproportionate to the benefit gained, IMO. I chose these two vastly different topic areas to establish examples of what I am hoping we can address within this thread. I am sure there will be some different takes on some of the repeated topics. My goal isn't to resolve the debate on any topic, but rather to look at the pros and cons of that topic as an area of routine discussion on this forum. Looking forward to your additions to this list. | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2011 |
This is my perpective as a new person on this forum. I have so many questions right now and I know that they are questions that I am sure have already been discussed many times in the forum....but they are questions "I" would like to ask without being restricted because they are things that have already been discussed here. Right now I am going over and over again thru the old covenant and new covenant teachings. Comparing the truth with what I was taught all my life as a SDA. I know that I am way behind all you guys...but if I have questions that are redundant to you I want to be free in asking them anyways. I think repeating topics is very good especially for us new ones who happen to jump on late in the game. lynn | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1456 Registered: 12-2007 |
Lynn, I agree  There are always "newbies" coming on here and they should ALWAYS feel free to ask any questions that they have no matter how many times that same question may have been asked in the past. Just as reading the same Bible verses over and over again should not get "old" because every time we read it we (hopefully) gain some new insight.So I feel it is (or should be) with the same questions being asked over and over. I have been on here long enough now that I am sure I have read many repeats, but each time someone brings something different into the discussion making it interesting. Francie | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1078 Registered: 7-2004 |
Great point Lynn! We were all newbies witmh more questions than answers at one point in our time here. I don't think any person here doesn't want newbies to ask questions and hear answers. That certainly isn't my intent in starting this thread. Thanks for your comments. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1933 Registered: 7-2007 |
I agree with Lynn and Francie. It doesn't hurt to discuss things over and over again. And what about the lies that someone in a cult hears about over and over and over again while they are in that cult?! The lie has been so ingrained, that in order to understand the truth fully, the truth has to be repeated over and over and over again in order for people to get it! So yes, people need to hear the gospel over and over again, especially when they've been in a cult! | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1184 Registered: 5-2007 |
I think that there needs to be an organzied resource on line to help answer the most common questions that formers run into. Generally , one must wade through so much information mingled with subjective interpretations that is almost impossible to come away with a clear conclusion. The common ones that I keep repeating are: What happened to the concept that God blessed the Sabbath, and made it holy. When did He literally countermand the order? We need a book. Why is that the Apostle Paul was the only Apostle to teach the New Covenant? We need a book. The God Head, 3 in one. One God. Tri-theism. No matter what scenario I have tried to express the three expressions of God, I am told that is wrong, and yet , no one has explained what is right, Just a fuzzy sort of nothing for an answer. Jesus was being baptized, God the Father and The Spirt of God were manifested at the same time. All three , at the same time in three forms. Jesus prayed to God The Father, Jesus sent The Holy Spirit, saying He had to depart but would send The Comforter. Jesus did not know the day and the hour of the Second coming, only the Father. All these indicate 3. I think They are One God in some way I do not grasp. I accept that God is One. But there is clearly 3 manifestations of God. Sanctifaction and Justifaction. Grace and Law. God is love, but Hell is eternal...... All of it becomes impossible to navigate because it is a huge amount of theology to work through. We need books, study guides, and so on. And even with that, because I have some of the books already. Somethings cannot be settled. One of the weakest links in the former adventist movement is it serves to get you out of the SDA and leaves you with not much more than, 'Go now, find a religion that works for you'. You end up worse off that if you had never left. Some of us get lost in the process. In my case, I have had to quit asking questions. More questions, more confusion and a tendancy to lose confidence in my own ability to reason. If you are always wrong about everything, when are you ever right. You end up with no starting point you can rely on. And one more question. Has it occurred to anyone that by the fact that they were SDA for decades in most cases, how is it now they are so sure they now know and understand the truth? Jim02 | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1794 Registered: 3-2009 |
Another issue is repeating topics is that some people just coming out or thinking of coming out of SDA, when they read the post they merely understand what the are reading because their brain is so full of the old stuff that the can hardly get the point. As time goes by and they study more and more the real thing, they start understanding more of the whole package and when they get to a repeated post, they say, "hey this makes more sense know that it did before, I can understand it better." And the cycle continues. Besides the fact that as new people post even though it's the same topic, it most of the time brings a different perspective, illustration, Bible verse that complements the other posts. Hec | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1936 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jim; a friend of mine who came out of a different cult (Roman Catholic), asked that question of some Christians, saying something like; if I come out of the Catholic church, how will I know that what you're telling me is the truth? She thought the answer that came back was the stupidest thing she'd ever heard; you'll know, that you know that you know. That made absolutely no sense to her until the Lord saved her out of that cult. Then she knew that she was saved and she knew the truth! By truth, I'm not saying that she was suddenly an expert on everything the Bible teaches. I'm saying that she knew the basic truth that any born again Christian understands (whether they are 6 years old or 60)- that salvation is FREE and that she was saved! Obviously any religion that teaches otherwise - such as some works being up to the person to accomplish in order to be saved - is false! Jim; God blessed the Sabbath - not all the anniversaries of it. He didn't command Adam and Eve to keep it (which would have been their first day.) Check it out for yourself. Moses repeated the covenant - the Ten Commandments - (see Deuteronomy 4:13 which shows that the 10 C is that covenant) to Israel in Deuteronomy 5. He starts out in that chapter by telling them that God didn't make that covenant with their fathers, but with them - see Deuteronomy 5:2,3. The apostle Paul wasn't the only Bible writer to teach the New Covenant. See Jeremiah 31:31-33. Jesus said; This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you. Luke 22:20. Hebrews wasn't written by Paul because Paul always identifies himself in the first verse(s) of the letters he wrote. Hebrews 9:15-17 says; And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Besides even if Paul had been the only one to mention the new covenant (which he wasn't), I would believe what he wrote. It's in the Bible and Luke vouched for him the book of Acts. See Acts 9 where it tells about Paul's (also called Saul) dramatic conversion and God's call on his life! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1937 Registered: 7-2007 |
I agree Hec! I was in the SDA church for over 50 years. I need to hear the truth over and over and over - STILL! I still have tendencies and baggage and need to go over and over it! (Another thing, is that people can easily go from one false system to another. They need to be rooted in the Bible!) | ||
| Galatiansgirl Registered user Username: Galatiansgirl Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2011 |
Hello All, I am a new forum member. I know that I need to hear the simple gospel over and over and over again. Actually, whenever doctrine gets complicated (SDA or others) my head starts to spin and I need to back away. I chose "GalatiansGirl" because I first truly understood the gospel after studying Galatians with a group of fellow Adventists (about 10 years ago). I think I was the only one in the group to "get" that Sabbath keeping and other works were not conditions of my salvation. Adventists claim that Paul is hard to understand -- how sad, because Paul clearly puts the good news out there. Simple, uncomplicated, plain. PRAISE GOD FOR PAUL!!! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1938 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome Galatiansgirl!!! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12679 Registered: 12-2003  |
Welcome, GalatiansGirl! So glad you're here! It's been interesting to me in our Friday night FAF Bible studies (which, we realized with a measure of shock, we've been having for about 12 years now!!), how often we discuss the same points over the months. There's often a new context, but it's the same point, and every time we do that, someone in the group gets an "A-Ha!" The depth of Truth is limitless, and the reality of who God is and what He has done on behalf of mankind—and, indeed, of all creation which He bound over to decay when Adam sinned (Galatians 3, Romans 8)—is breath-taking. Last night, for example, we talked about a question that came up after Sunday lunch last week in a conversation: what is the difference between "imputed" and "imparted"? The difference is HUGE...and Adventists were not taught the truth about "imputation"—the fact that God imputed Adam's sin to all mankind and to creation as well, that God then imputed all human sin to Jesus who became sin for us and became a curse for us, and then, when we repent and receive the forgiveness in His blood, He imputes the perfect righteousness and obedience of the Lord Jesus to us—while we still live in decaying flesh! It's overwhelming. Jim, there are, actually, "the books"—and Ratzlaff's Sabbath in Christ and Greg Taylor's Discovering the New Covenant are two of the best. They actually go right through Scripture and show how Jesus fulfilled all the law and IS the Holy One we honor instead of the representative "holy times" that were mere shadows of Him. The one common bottom line, as Asurprise was alluding above, is being born again. When one knows Jesus by repenting and giving up ALL one's effort to "please God" and thus secure our eternal security, when we acknowledge our utter helplessness and hopelessness to avoid sin of any kind through the means of prayer, discipline, and obsessing about it, when we place ourselves at His mercy and receive His forgiveness and allow Him to be complete Lord over us—then the Holy Spirit gives us new life—His life—and the Bible and the truth of Jesus begin to make sense. God always answers the prayer to teach us truth and reality; we must be willing to risk giving up and intellectually analyzing the truth He teaches us through His word and begin to open ourselves to "know the love that surpasses knowledge" (Eph 3:19), a "knowing" that comes from the Lord Jesus through His Spirit making Him real to us through His own word. But we have to step out of the way and receive His word and receive Him without resistance. Eve's bottom line sin was in discussing what God said instead of holding onto it and acting on it when the serpent accosted her. Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1185 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Colleen , I have read Sabbath in Christ a couple times and scan it for notes. I have not read Greg Taylor's book. Thank You for the suggested titles. Having a collection of Essays , or an organized listing of Proclamation articles would be helpful. Do they exist? Jim | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1943 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jim; you need to quit lying to yourself that it's almost impossible to come away with a clear conclusion. The Bible really is clear about how to be saved and it's clear that God keeps us saved! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1796 Registered: 3-2009 |
Welcome, Ms. Galatians. Hec | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2009  |
Welcome Galatiansgirl! Ross | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1186 Registered: 5-2007 |
Asurprise, Confusion is not a lie. The truth is quite possibly somewhere between the two views. I need to stick to my previous postion. Stop asking questions. I am not asking. I said it needs to be organized, where one can reduce the clutter and noise. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1079 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jim, I really do feel empathy for your position and statements. I see glimpses of what my posts might have looked like if this board were around in the early 90's. And I know, or at least believe that I do, that some of what Asurprise says to you must sting from time to time. But don't dismiss her comments too quickly, many of her insights are bulls-eyes. It seems to me, at least sometimes, that you are fighting hard against the obvious, that you search out reasons for doubt and gloss past reasons for belief. Since I can still recall how painful it was struggling to find rest, I pray that it finds you. | ||
| Galatiansgirl Registered user Username: Galatiansgirl Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2011 |
Thanks all for the welcome. Colleen, I really appreciate your statement "God always answers the prayer to teach us truth and reality;" If we are in Christ, I can't imagine a loving God would ignore a sincere request to know truth. |
