| Author |
Message |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1914
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:31 am: |     |
Ric; I wasn't responding to your theological questions. I was responding to what Hec said about you...
You said in your post #1007:
"Asuprose, You agree with Hec's insulting remarks or you agree with Hec's viewpoint that our feelings and thinking are useful for defining how God must be? It wasn't clear from your vague response."
I said in my post #1906: "Ric; I don't think that you're like Ellen White, (I don't agree with Hec on that - not that he was accusing you of that; but you seem to feel that you're the one he was talking about), but I'm wondering if perhaps you are so used to being on CARM, that you occasionally get into attack mode. Some of your responses have been very harsh. That's all I meant."
You said in your post #1019 "Hec didn't say harsh, he said arrogant. Harsh is a description of my words, arrogant is an attack on my character.
And it is 100% clear that Hec was talking specifically about me, he already told the other two people in the conversation who disagreed with his statement that he wasn't talking about them. It doesn't take a genius or Cinderella to figure it out from there."
So yes we were talking about your harshness on the forum. (And I still believe harsh words have no place here.)
(Message edited by Asurprise on May 24, 2011) |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 267
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 1:23 pm: | |
Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Hell and death are two of my least favorite subjects. Jesus and Salvation are two of my most favorite subjects. No one ever gets scared to Christ.
Chris |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 613
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 2:12 pm: | |
@Chris
quote:Hell and death are two of my least favorite subjects. Jesus and Salvation are two of my most favorite subjects. No one ever gets scared to Christ.
Perhaps you know the bumper sticker "Jesus is the Answer". I don't know if you're familiar with the bumper sticker made by a frustrating non-Christian, "What's the question?"
I have also a question: if your favorite subject is salvation, from what do you think you're saved? Only from a purposeless, meaningless, hedonistic temporal life, or also from eternal death and hell (however you'll define it)? When you talk about salvation, your favorite subject, how do you manage to stay away from talking about your least favorite subject, what you're saved from, hell, death? Do you think that knowing what salvation is has nothing to do with what you're saved from? How are you defining salvation apart from the thing or situation from which you're supposedly saved?
Gabriel |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 2:20 pm: | |
quote:Ric,; I wasn't responding to your theological questions. I was responding to what Hec said about you....So yes we were talking about your harshness on the forum.
That is the root of the problem, you keep wanting to pursue my character as a discussion point, whereas I have continually been trying to make this a discussion about the importance of relying on the Word of God, and the danger that exists in relying on our thoughts and emotions for doctrine.
My character, good points and bad, have nothing to do with the Great Controversy and the resulting world views. But using speculation, emotion, and human logic are core elements of the Great Controversy world view. One of us keeps trying to turn this conversation back to the topic and back to the Word of God.
quote:(And I still believe harsh words have no place here.)
Perhaps there is some room for you to examine that in your own posts before investing so much energy into examining others.
Now I ask, yet again, can we please return to discussing what teachings are true and safe, and what teachings are false and dangerous.
Do you see any dangers in basing our views of God and our doctrines on our feelings, our logic, and/or our speculations?
If so, what dangers do you see and why?
Am I incorrect in concluding that a god created on our feelings instead of on the Word of God is a god we are creating in our own image?
If I am correct, is it wrong to conclude that creating a god in our own image is creating and ultimately worshipping an idol?
What instructions does Scripture give to Believers about idols, should we be OK with brothers and sisters in the church worshipping idols, or are we called to not mix idol worship and Christianity? |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1932
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 3:10 pm: | |
Rick, I wish I could "like" your last post. You're not and can't be responsible for other people's feelings. You certainly don't need my support, but I am learning a great deal from reading the posts of yours and those who are in keeping with the OP.
Which brings me to this question, does the GC worldview rely a lot on personal feelings?
Leigh Anne |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1037
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 3:35 pm: | |
Leigh Anne,
It relies a great deal on this combination of speculation, weak logic, and appeals to emotion. God has to be fair and show that He is fair to the universe-speculation and emotional appeal. God's Law is the center point of the controversy-speculation and some weird logic. The whole universe is watching to decide whether God or Satan was telling the truth, so God must prove Himself-speculation and emotion. The created beings have the power to determine/decide who wins, Satan or God.
I believe that SDAs are so entreated in this type of doctrinal study that they are impaired, often for years after leaving the system, without realizing how disabling and dangerous this approach to trying to understand God really is. |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1933
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 4:13 pm: | |
"The created beings have the power to determine/decide who wins, Satan or God."
Not to mention the idea that perfect, law abiding SDA's will give Jesus the cue to come back...
This makes sense considering a lot of what I've encountered with my SDA relatives. I thought maybe some of it was cultural, and that might still be. However, there's a strong sense of guilt (self-inflicted and otherwise), superstition, confusing personal feelings with "God's voice". Lashing out if beliefs are challenged or questioned. I learned much of this the hard way!
Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12628
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 5:59 pm: | |
Yes, Rick, and that law that is the center point of the GC scenario is actually called the "transcript of God's character". The entire problem boils down to a graven image—tables of stone carved by the finger of God have become the "transcript" of who God is supposed to be.
The minimizing of God in this scenario is horrendous. It makes God far less complex and less nuanced than humans are. It makes God all about expecting our obedience, and it makes us all about deceiving ourselves about our true nature and God's expectations so we can imagine we're keeping His law.
The GC worldview fails miserably because it gives Adventists not God, but an idol...a carved stone idol.
Colleen |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 268
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 9:00 pm: | |
Hi Gabriel
Thanks for the question!!
I think of scripture that mentions that today is the day of salvation, and elsewhere where scripture tells us that Jesus is now our Atonement. Also where another day is spoken of "Today" where we can find rest in Him.
I have always felt removed from death, not like a lot of young whipper snappers feel, who when reminded of the blessings of being young shrug it off and can't believe that they will ever grow old. I felt that way too, in times past, but what I feel now is different, and rightly so because I am no longer a young whipper snapper. It's about the assurance I have that death Has been Conquered. And how it has been conquered by Jesus. I have been spared any serious brush with death, so that is my experience. Have I been scared when sliding down a slippery slope? You Bet!! Have I felt protected afterwords? Yes
As for hell, I have experienced enough of that right here on Earth. When do I need The Atonement, The Salvation, The Rest ?
It is that moment in eternity called, NOW, TODAY, when I need Atonement, Salvation, and Rest.
If I had to answer what I am saved from, I probably wouldn't say Death, or Hell, or a purposeless, meaningless hedonistic lifestyle. I would probably say that I am saved from myself, when I don't rest in him. When you are resting in Jesus, there is nothing to be saved from, cause your already saved. Death has been defeated, Jesus has prepared a place for me, and God has plans for me, plans of good, not harm. The promises of God are amazing.
Believe you me I get scared sometimes, but I try and have only one place to go with that fear. To the one with perfect Love. It's not the fear that leads me to him, I could take my fear to all kinds of different places. Its the comfort that leads me to him.
God is Love.
Chris |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 614
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:50 am: | |
Hi Chris
Thanks for answering, this pretty clarifies your perspective. From an angle that sees God's holiness as important as his goodness, salvation from sin means a way to escape the punishment sin deserves manifested in God's holy wrath against it, hell. Of course, when God's holiness isn't taken into account, you're perfectly legitimate to speak of salvation apart from God's wrath expressed in hell.
Gabriel |
Audreyfaf2010
Registered user
Username: Audreyfaf2010
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 3:47 pm: | |
Hi Jackob,
My name is Audrey Balan, and I am apart of Colleen's FAF biblestudy in Redlands, CA.
I wanted to get your thoughts on translating some information to Romanian for some family members.. I was told to contact you. Do you have an email that I can talk further about this with you? I would really appreciate talking with you.
Audrey Balan
apena@csusb.edu |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 257
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 4:24 pm: | |
Audreyfaf2010~
~WELCOME to the Forum~
~mj~ |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13218
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 10:29 pm: | |
Audrey, I'm so glad you've joined us! You'll find a whole forum full of friends!
Colleen |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1867
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 12:11 pm: | |
Welcome to the forum, Audrey.
Hec |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2284
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 6:41 pm: | |
Audrey, welcome to the forum!  |
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