| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12534 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've been getting letters to the editor as Proclamation! has been landing in mailboxes. I thought I'd share one and get your responses. I find myself just stunned when I read things like we're "reactive", or "Why don't you talk about Jesus?"or "Why don't you just preach the gospel?" What?? I keep thinking we are preaching the gospel...sigh... So here's one I just received this past week. Reactions? Comments?
So there you have it. We're not on track for "an afterlife"... Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 952 Registered: 7-2004  |
I think that one of the aspects that writers like this miss, or at least mis-understand, is that we have to spell it out directly for many SDAs because they don't understand how their own teachings disagree with general Biblical doctrine. Because SDAs learn new and improved meanings to common terms, they often fail to see when the presentation of a teaching conflicts with their doctrine. If we don't point it out, we leave them in blissful ignorance. If we point it out, we are being negative. I wish they would evaluate what we wrote and said based on whether it was Scripturally accurate, instead of on their emotional response to us. | ||
| Bosslady Registered user Username: Bosslady Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2009 |
I think Proclamation plays a very significant role in supporting those that have recently made the decision to leave Adventism. At the same time educating anyone that has an interest to read. One could say that the Advevtist Review & Herald needs to " move on" and print articles about Jesus. That's not their agenda. Their significant role is to support the teachings of Ellen White. "he who casts the first stone......." And I think the last 2 editions of Proclamation are awesome! I never throw the magazines away. They are excellent reference material! | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1360 Registered: 12-2007 |
Proclamation is doing what it is meant to do. Not only point out the errors of Adventism, but point people to Jesus Christ at the same time. Proclamation is the only publication I am aware of that is put out by people who KNOW first hand what Adventism teaches and so are qualified to point out the errors. I could see how they could criticize IF it were a publication making harsh statements by people who had not lived their lives previously IN that denomination. But that is not the case. | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2005 |
When a family is disfunctional [or a group] a great deal of work must be done to clear away the painful bits that inhibit healing and that very much includes talking about the herd of elephants in the room. This is rarely welcomed by everyone and those who do not want to take part in the change are offended or outright hostile. Those most supportive are those who have processed their own painful baggage. With respect, those who want no part of change, healing or deeper understanding should keep moving on rather than impede others' pathway. Luke 11:46-52 (ESV) Came to mind from my devotional reading last week and it seems to talk about an attitude that would rather cluck tongues that understand and assist someone who is in need of "good Samaritain" caring.... 46And he said, "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers.... 52Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering." This bruised and saved sinner benefits greatly form Proclamation. Thank-you  Paul Cross | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 842 Registered: 5-2009 |
Wow! I see Jesus all through Proclamation! The whole point of the magazine & your ministry is to point out, in very specific ways, how adventism teaches another gospel than the Biblical gospel. How it's whole viewpoint is upside down from the Bible because it's foundation is the Great Controversy and other writings of EGW. How in the world are adventists going to hear the real gospel if no one tells them? Does a magazine for questioning Mormons point out the error of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon? Why? Because it will lead people to The Truth. Proclamation is filling a much-needed niche. If it offends these people, they can always quit reading it! For me, it's constantly pointing to Jesus, and encouraging me to go back to the Bible to study. For instance, how in the world can you write an article about Jesus to an audience that was taught He is an archangel if you don't point out that He is not?!? | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 447 Registered: 5-2009  |
Colleen and Richard, When I came to this portion of the Talbot article, I immediately thought of y'all. "This gives me an opportunity to pay tribute to the tireless labors of this thoroughly informed and faithful servant of God who serves the Christian church well in his unenviable specialized ministry of exposing the falsity and the soul-endangering character of this sect." You are in an important, unenviable ministry. I'm sure it's often a thankless job filled with haters and fiery arrows from the devil himself. Thank you for all that you do in spite of it all. I pray that in the coming months and years you continue to be blessed by your front row seat watching captives set free. (feel free to print that in the letters section.) | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 766 Registered: 5-2002  |
My Bible doesn't have Paul "moving on" from the Judaizers once he believed in Jesus and left Judaism. I also have to wonder how much criticism your letter writer has for the author of Hebrews who wrote so much comparing Christian doctrine to the Jewish belief system... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12535 Registered: 12-2003 |
Delina, thank you. I WILL use that in the letters... And Freeatlast, yes. "Moving on" is another way of saying "rationalize" or "ignore the truth". I can't move on from who I am nor from what God has put in front of me to do. You know, none of us can "move on" from being people rescued from a dangerous false gospel. That is WHO we were, and that fact has shaped who we are today. We know things many people don't know, and we are responsible for being truthful about what God has made clear to us in His word as He dismantled our "great controversy worldview". People who have been Adventist are really the only ones who can speak clearly and with detail about what is real in that group. I praise God for calling us, rescuing us, and making us alive! Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1361 Registered: 12-2007 |
AMEN !!! | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 767 Registered: 5-2002 |
Exactly! If you want to know what it is like to be a slave, who is a more reliable witness, a former slave or a current slaveowner? | ||
| Karethamiller Registered user Username: Karethamiller Post Number: 196 Registered: 8-2010  |
Freeatlast...this is a good analogy. I feel like that former slave so many times! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1874 Registered: 7-2007 |
It's like this with any cult. People who've been freed from Mormonism or Catholicism and are trying to show their former brethren the freedom and salvation that can be had in Christ, are called Mormon and Catholic bashers. Keep up the good work Colleen! Some will read the magazines and get saved! | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 588 Registered: 7-2005 |
@Rick, agree 100%. @Colleen I have a suggestion that I suppose Rick will enjoy better than others, since he's Lutheran. If not, he may be the first to throw a stone. My suggestion is based on Luther's simul justus et peccator, simultaneously righteous and sinner. It's a way of acknowledging the fact that we are in God's eyes perfect only in justification, while in ourselves, in sanctification, we are far from perfect, we are sinners. Another way to put it is that we are sinners (present tense) saved by grace (saints). Paul spoke about himself as a sinner in the present tense long time after he had the Damascus road meeting with the risen Christ: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1 Timothy 1;15) One important difference: the dominion of sin had been broken, we are no longer spiritually dead sinners. Still, in a sense, what we were still affects us even in the present. John Newton, the author of Amazing Grace captured the essence of the believer's identity: "I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am" The definition I propose here is to be something that will go alongside, not replace, our identity as former adventists. Here it is: WE ARE ADVENTISTS SAVED BY GRACE. Ok, here is my take on this: we can speak in a sense of us no longer being adventists as we are no longer sinners, but also we can speak of us as being still adventists in a similar way we can see ourselves as still sinners. My definition acknowledge that we need to be constantly be delivered from sins that are specifically related with our background: our idolatrous (liberal, tritheistic) views of God, our moralistic (instead of moral) take on God's commands, our reluctance to embrace God's free grace (seen as cheap grace in our past). Let's face it: our past will always be with us here, and we will have always to fight with the sin in our members that was shaped in the form of the adventist false religious worldview. In this sense, we can speak of us not only as former adventists, in the sense of having a new identity, but also of us as current adventists saved by grace, justified by God, delivered even today and constantly from our worldly adventist mindset and behavior. I wonder what reaction adventists will have when we will define ourselves as "Sinners saved by grace, adventists saved by grace". Any feedback? Gabriel | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1365 Registered: 12-2007 |
Gabriel, you got me battling with myself.. (sigh) don't know if that is good or bad... I think I see your points, and while part of me agrees with your statement: "In this sense, we can speak of us not only as former adventists, in the sense of having a new identity, but also of us as current adventists saved by grace, justified by God, delivered even today and constantly from our worldly adventist mindset and behavior. I wonder what reaction adventists will have when we will define ourselves as "Sinners saved by grace, adventists saved by grace". I think I understand your meaning,, and a part of me wants to agree, and yet... the part of me that feels a great sense of relief to be free from even the very name "Adventist" says.. "noooo, I dont think so". Conclusion...... I don't have one.. I am doing an emotional battle with myself over this one. Francie | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1751 Registered: 3-2009 |
Sometimes the call to go back to the snake pit is so strong that it depresses me. I want to go back. My heart wants to go back. That's where all my friends are. That's where my culture is. That's where I don't have to ask anyone how to do any thing because I know the protocols by heart. I cry sometimes because I want the fellowship. But my spirit (or the Holy Spirit living in me) says, forget it. You're not going back there. You are mine now. The one thing that recharges my batteries, or that helps the Holy Spirit to do that job is this ministry. I check this forum several time a day, and when Proclamation comes in, I can't put it down. Then I remember that the song I'm listening is the snake's, and I don't want to go back there. It's a real struggle. But thanks first to God, and then this ministry specially Colleen and Richard behind the scenes it gives me the strength to turn around and get away as far a possible from the snake pit. Keep up a good job Colleen. Don't let them get you down. You are doing more good than you will ever know this side of heaven. THANK YOU, Hec | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2009  |
For me it is simply this. God called me out of Adventism to Freedom. He called me to start a Christian Blog. He called me to start a blog for Adventists/Christians about the differences between Biblical Christianity and Adventism. He called me to do these things. Am I going to liste to my God and King...or say my family or friends in Adventism? My God and King. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1366 Registered: 12-2007 |
When I said I was having an internal battle I did NOT mean about the possibility of EVER going back to the Adventist church. And maybe I misunderstood what Gabriel was saying,, but reading his post I did not take it as him saying we should go back into Adventism referring to the denomination, but thinking of ourselves as "Adventist" for what the word means... "Latin adventus is the translation of the Greek word parousia, commonly used in reference to the Second Coming of Christ. For Christians, the season of Advent serves a reminder both of the original waiting that was done by the Hebrews for the birth of their Messiah as well as the waiting of Christians for Christ's return." Maybe I misunderstood what Gabriel meant..? Gabriel, can you please explain to us which way you meant your statement ? I want to think of myself as an "Adventist" ONLY in the sense of looking forward to the Advent/return of Christ. As for going back into the "snake pit" as a member of the denomination I have to say... NO ! NEVER, NEVER EVER. However having said that. I do have a MIL who is SDA and if I happened to be visiting in her home on a Sabbath, I would not refuse to attend church with her just as I would hope (doubt, but hope) that she would be willing to attend with me at the church of my choice if she were here visiting with me on a Sunday. Francie | ||
| Grace1958_f Registered user Username: Grace1958_f Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2011 |
As former SDA’s my husband and his mom had wrestled with fear that they could never really be perfect enough to get into heaven, that is, until God revealed truth to each of them that they did not have to strive to be perfect to be saved but that salvation is a gift of grace through Jesus Christ, and not by works. My MIL then wrestled with fears of leaving the SDA church she was deeply involved in. She was church treasurer & clerk, pianist for worship, and primary teacher. It took courage for my husband, his mom & dad and his sister to leave the SDA religion but they have never regretted it. It has been an interesting journey for all of them as God has escorted each of them into deeper relationship with him, free from deceptive bondages. My SDA DIL recently told me she is hesitant to read anything that is contrary to the EGW/SDA teachings because she is afraid there might be something out there that is better. She is a generational SDA. Her grandfather was an SDA pastor, her brother is an SDA pastor, her parents are SDA elders, leaders of worship and of SDA youth groups, etc. My step-son & DIL lead worship at their church, she also teaches children. ALL her family and friends are SDA. That is the comfortable box she lives in and at this point in time, she has no reason to leave it, even if truth is beckoning her. For those of you who wrestle with issues of departure from SDAism. . . I would like to share some scripture that came to my mind: In a conversation Peter had with Jesus in Matthew 19:27, 29, . . . Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, . . . And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or field for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 768 Registered: 5-2002 |
We have a broader concept of the word "Adventist" than most. We understand its dual application both to the church denomination and its use as a theological term. But to the uninitiated, the term refers to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. "The Adventists"... Compare "Adventist" to "Jehovah's Witness". Although I consider myself a witness for Jehovah, I would bristle if someone called me that just because of the connotation to those who don't understand the subtle but important cultic distinction. |
