| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1913 Registered: 6-2006  |
This is just one of those random questions which pops in my head. I realize for the SDA, keeping God's law is first and foremost on the agenda. My random question is this ~ do you feel you kept the Sabbath perfectly as an SDA? Was there ever a time when you felt convicted by the Bible when reading the specifications for the actual Sabbath day? I ask because of past discussions I've had with my hubby, as well as SDA apologists on CARM. They've insisted the Sabbath is "the real day", but when I asked if they keep the Sabbath of the Bible, the subject quickly gets changed. (I always get the feeling that as long as you're saying you keep the Sabbath, that's all you need). Just trying to understand the thought process. My theory is that if you're not keeping the same Sabbath as the Children of Israel, then you're not keeping the Sabbath. Again, my question is this; As an SDA, do you formers feel you kept the Sabbath perfectly? Was there ever a time when you felt convicted by the Bible when reading the specifications for the actual Sabbath day? Thanks! Leigh Anne | ||
| Cauliflower Registered user Username: Cauliflower Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2011 |
I never kept the Sabbath like the Bible says. I remember a professor at AU saying that he felt that we shouldn't even shower on the Sabbath. I found that to be totally ridiculous. I have a feeling that none of the Jews ever truly kept the Sabbath like it says in the Bible. | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 160 Registered: 8-2010  |
Grace, I think the common sentiment that is unspoken among SDAs is that OUR trying was always better than all the Sunday Worshipers not doing. As long as I "kept it" based on what I knew I was ok and by all accounts Sunday was wrong so without question I was better off then those who were definitely wrong. Never mind that Christ did it all at the Cross. Probably a good follow up question for SDA's is, "How many Sabbaths does one need to keep (perfectly) to know one is saved?" My $0.02 (Message edited by wiredog on April 20, 2011) | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 333 Registered: 2-2010 |
I knew I wasn't the poster child for Sabbath keeping. I lived with a lot of guilt because of it- especially when my son was born! I think I thought that was where the cross came in. The 10c also says not to covet, but I did everytime I went to the mall or browsed a magazine. I had God's grace to cover me and I counted on it. I felt that as long as I was a part of the people who understood the value and importance of the Sabbath, I went to church on Saturday not Sunday, and I lived according to my conscience as I was convicted on the issue (after all Sabbath was for the man, not man for the Sabbath), - OH yes, and as long as I kept my Sabbath variances to myself so I wasn't a stumbling block to someone who was convicted differently- then I was probably ok with God..."for now". When the time of trouble came though, I knew I was going to have to really buckle down and do better. wow...it's embarassing to "say it out loud". (Message edited by free2dance on April 20, 2011) | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 290 Registered: 5-2009 |
I never kept the sabbath biblically as stated in Exodus 16:29 English Standard Version (ESV) 29 See! The LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Remain each of you in his place; let no one go out of his place on the seventh day. No one remains in his place; no one does not go out of his place on the seventh day. Bur we all debated what was & was not allowed to 'do' on the sabbath. The traditions of man. Sabbath keeping was mainly about not working on the sabbath. Of course then there were the debates about 'necessary work' which was defined as lawfully doing good on the sabbath. Taking care of the sick in hospitals was allowed for example. It was all so legalistic. And self-righteous. J9 | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1171 Registered: 7-2005  |
"How many Sabbaths does one need to keep (perfectly) to know one is saved?" Awesome question! Good one, Wiredog! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1745 Registered: 3-2009 |
Exodus 16:29 English Standard Version (ESV) 29 "See! The LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Remain each of you in his place; let no one go out of his place on the seventh day." When I was SDA I did not pay much attention to this verse except for showing that "God gave them the Sabbath." After coming to this forum I've seen it over and over where it is used to show how one of the things Sabbath keeping requires is to stay home. However, it seems to me that if we look at the verse in context, it would be saying to stay home and not go out to pick up manna. Not saying to stay home completely, or forbidding to go out. There is another verse that commands them to go out to a sacred assembly/convocation. Lev. 23:1-3. HCSB 1 The LORD spoke to Moses: 2 “Speak to the Israelites and tell them: These are My appointed times, the times of the LORD that you will proclaim as sacred assemblies. 3 “Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the LORD wherever you live. Would God be telling them in one place not to go out and in another place go out? Or am I misunderstanding these verses? Hec | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9160 Registered: 3-2004  |
I NEVER read the Bible to see what it said about keeping the sabbath. I just went along with the teachers and pastors and what my parents said. I had no idea what Moses told the CoI about the sabbath. I never questioned it as an sda. Diana L | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7219 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: I just went along with the teachers and pastors and what my parents said. Dianna, I think you hit Adventism on the old nail head, everybody just goes along with what the teachers and parents said. It really does put me in mind of the Borg. When a kid comes off the bottle he is assimilated into the group think. That is so weird. That reminds me, I need to get back to work on 'The Dome' and you just gave me plenty of ammunition. Thanks Dianna. Off I go to write.  | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 537 Registered: 4-2007 |
"I just went along with the teachers and pastors and what my wife said." (modified) As a 'not born Adventist' I never felt any conviction about the Sabbath, it's what they did so I went with the flow. And yes, I did feel vaguely guilty about it. It wasn't until after I left that I realized that it never was about literally 'keeping' but merely good intentions to do so, lip service like everything else Adventist including Ellen, the IJ, perfectionism, offerings, diet, communion and on and on and.... I don't think the vast majority of Adventists are convicted of anything, they just do and 'believe' stuff because the church requires it as membership dues. The Apostate John | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2804 Registered: 8-2004  |
We tried: To have baths done and clothes prepared before sundown Friday night (no showers or clothes prep on Sabbath) To have the house clean and all 'secular materials' (especially magazines and books) put away To have food prepared so that no cooking needed to be done on Sabbath (though reheating was considered ok) To either have paper plates available or only rinse dishes off to be washed after sundown To only talk about 'Sabbath topics' and to only engage in 'Sabbath activities' between sundown Friday night and Saturday night Did we succeed? No! Though a few things did fall in to place a few times, the guilt load of not being ready by sundown and the added guilt of not keeping the day properly when it had arrived was massive, even though we had a sense that God did love us anyway and His grace somehow covered what we hadn't managed to accomplish. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 81 Registered: 2-2005 |
Actually scripture was a bit vague as to what could or couldn't be done. Ellen was more to the point as to how the flock should observe the day. Many a Sabbath afternoon was idled away just sitting and discussing what we could or couldn't do. Sometimes we would discuss things some were doing that would not pass an ellen inspection. That always made me feel better. I never in 40 years ever felt I "kept" the day Holy. Somewhere in Israelite history the tents were opened on Sabbath and the flock was allowed to snoop around a bit. The man who picked up sticks was not condemned for being out and about. Some one else had to be out to see him doing the dastardly thing. Are we told if they had a pass to milk the cows and goats? Surely they did. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 812 Registered: 8-2008 |
"How many Sabbaths does one need to keep (perfectly) to know one is saved?" ZERO! Praise God! Hec, their were no synagogues when the Law was given, and in fact the synagogue did not exist until the Babylonian captivity. IIRC, it seems then that the wording there does not connote going somewhere, but a household being together in the home. Households back then would be quite large, including the extended family. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7220 Registered: 9-2006 |
Notice in the scripture that Hec brought to us, he said, 'Complete rest'. 3 “Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the LORD wherever you live. Notice the key words 'Sabbath' and 'complete rest. Not a partial rest, but a complete rest. Another word we might use I think would be 'recline' and you can't work if you are reclining (although I do claim I am working in that position sometimes ) I suppose the Lord knew human language since he made us and gave us the ability to speak. So yes, I think he meant it, do not go out. Since our claim is that this points to Jesus, our Sabbath of rest, and I believe it does, and so it is we ‘recline’ in the Lords rest today, (Or should) I believe it is available to us, although many of us struggle until he brings us to that place. We should continually recline in his rest ‘and never go out, we are sealed unto the day of our redemption. Carrying that theme on if you will notice in the story of the Ark, the Lord sealed them in the Ark of safety and so it is, he is our complete Sabbath of rest, and we are sealed in from danger, and we must not go out. Having been saved, we are sealed in the Ark of safety Christ Jesus, our complete rest, not partial rest, but complete rest and is a solemn assembly. We are never to make light of it. As a little aside, the gal who works for me said the other day, “I can drive the tractor.” I said, “When there is work that involves walking, which one of us do you think will be driving the tractor?” If it comes down to between me and the sinner man, who do you suppose will be reclining in the Lords tractor seat? Me or him? River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7221 Registered: 9-2006 |
In rifle training in the military we would attempt to hit a target at long distance (It saves trouble if you can plink an enemy at a thousand yards, rather than let him get close enough to look you in the eyeballs) Sometimes, on a sunny day as I shot at a distant target you could actually see the bullet as it made a gentle arc toward the target as the sun glinted off the metal jacket of the bullet. If the target was out of range, you would say you 'Fell short of the mark', so we would adjust our sights for a higher arc. Since Adventism is not based on the cross of Christ, they fall short of the mark, not understanding and comprehending the bible, they fall short of attaining unto the Lords rest. Adventist need a sight adjustment for a higher Arc. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 827 Registered: 5-2009 |
Since EGW had "special revelation" for us, I believe I spent time reading about Sabbath-keeping in her stuff instead of the Bible. I thought I was doing really well in Sabbath-keeping if I went to church and did "nature walks" and didn't watch TV. I constantly broke the Sabbath on Friday night! I never seemed to get done before Sundown no matter how hard I tried, esp. after I had babies. I just thought I was a failure and not very spiritual. The choice was between still scrubbing the floor Friday night (breaking the edges of the Sabbath) or letting my Sabbath guests see my dirty floor. I especially broke the Sabbath when it was 118 degrees at the river and I waded in and finally sat down and let the water go up to my waist!! Horrors! I was in college at the time, camping at the river with a friend and her mother really let us have it for getting wet. Somehow getting in the water was a "big" sin, while hiking in nature up cliffs was not!? Also I thought it was OK to go out to eat on Sabbath...most every SDA I know currently does this, without a thought. In my experience, as long as you verbalized that Saturday was the correct day, that counted the most. There were so many different subtle rules. TV was definitely a sin, though. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12524 Registered: 12-2003  |
Nowisee, my experience was SO MUCH like yours. I could never get those Sabbath edges...especially the Friday ones...guarded adequately. I just could not get all the work done before sundown!I felt guilty...and Richard was sure I was in serious sin... Yup, the verbalizing (and belief in your heart) is what counted the most. Colleen | ||
| Johann Registered user Username: Johann Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2009 |
This whole thread proves exactly why the whole Sabbath 'truth' in Adventism is utterly false. In my experience, the more Adventists tried to explain the meaning of the Sabbath, the more pitfalls and potholes opened up. Sabbath "keeping" is an impossible mission. Even if it was a possibility, it would be an exercise in futility. Thank God we have been delivered from this! | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 446 Registered: 5-2009  |
Wow. There are no two Adventists who agree on what it means to keep the Sabbath, no 2 Adventists who keep the Sabbath in the same way...nevertheless, they maintain that they will be persecuted (by us "Sunday worshipers") for keeping the Sabbath. How will we know what criteria to use in order to know who to persecute? *sigh* I agree with y'all. It's all about belief in the Sabbath, not the actual keeping of it that saves you. It's a twisted substitute for believing in Jesus for salvation. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1746 Registered: 3-2009 |
OK, Brent, there were no synagogues. But there have to be places to assembly. Even in the side of rivers as Acts mentions Paul going to meet with some people. Maybe there were not buildings, but they had to assembly not only on the Sabbath, but on other monthly and yearly feasts. Of course they could not all assembly at the same place. There was not building, not even the temple, that could hold them all, but assembly they had to . And the weekly Sabbath is one of those days mentioned as "sacred assembly". Hec |
