| Author |
Message |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 912
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 5:57 pm: |     |
God loves sinners..no assumption there...And that is the truth that the world needs to hear.
Animal...keep it simple saints. |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 880
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 9:19 pm: | |
Hec,
Exactly right, the Bible doesn't say so why should we. For me it comes down to a question about whether we trust God and His Word. If we believe that Scripture is God breathed, then we must be able to trust that Scripture tells us exactly what God wants to tell us. Like God Himself, His Word is perfect. So adding our speculations to God's Word is like adding finger paint to the Mona Lisa so it will look more like we want. |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 458
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 12:52 pm: | |
The issue is not important as to if it were a fig or apple or any fruit. The point was that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil caused death that very day they ate, it wasn't a physical death, it was spiritual. The law was given to multiply that very same trespass, that is why Paul said when the commandment came (thall shall not covet) He died. My point was not really about physical fruit. My point is that the law was given to multiply the trespass caused by Adam. The serpent lied and used the tree to cause Adam and Eve to believe that they can become like God and obtain wisdom. Many denominations that push the keeping of the 10 commandments are saying similar things. You need to keep the 10 in order to be saved, you will become Holy (sanctified) by keeping them, is this not like saying you will be like God? The law is called the ministration of death and is the power of sin, it is not sin in itself just as the tree was not, they only revealed sin. My point about the fig was not what I was trying to convey, so sorry if that is what you may have thought, that is not important. My point was that we cannot cover our sinfulness by keeping the law just as Adam and Eve could not cover their nakedness with their coverings, we are all naked before God. When I discussed the fig, it does in no way cause unbiblical teaching that is not evident in what the tree did and what the law does to us. I think if you go back and read the scriptures I posted originally you would understand what I was trying to say, it's not about apples and oranges.
Paul |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 459
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 12:56 pm: | |
There are other ample scriptures where God and Jesus call Israel a fig tree, they represent the old covenant and the Law. I don't think there is any harm in speculating that the fig is used as a type, again not important but much more scriptural than the apple lovers out there, LOL
Paul |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1725
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 4:53 pm: | |
I'm disappointed. I liked the idea of Adam and Eve covering themselves with the leaves of the same tree they ate the fruit from. It's a beautiful illustration of what we do many times. We sin and then try to cover it up with the same or similar sin: covering a lie with another lie. But that would never do. Only Jesus can cover it.
Hec |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 916
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 6:52 pm: | |
I wonder if they had root beer and popcorn in the Garden of Eden?
hmmmm...hmmmm....Just a thought.
Animal...likes to think. |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 890
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 7:03 pm: | |
Hec,
I agree that it illustrates what we do plenty of times. But it is a dangerous practices, as we should know better than most, to read our ideas back into Scripture and modify the story just a little bit based on these outside ideas. |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 460
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 3:12 pm: | |
I'm in the mood for some fig newtons now...
Hosea 9:10 HCSB
I discovered Israel
like grapes in the wilderness.
I saw your fathers
like the first fruit of the fig tree in its first season.
But they went to Baal-peor,
consecrated themselves to Shame,
and became detestable,
like the thing they loved.
John 1:47-51 HCSB
Then Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him and said about him, "Here is a true Israelite; no deceit is in him."
"How do you know me?" Nathanael asked.
"Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you," Jesus answered.
"Rabbi," Nathanael replied, "You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
Jesus responded to him, "Do you believe [only] because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than this." Then He said, "I assure you: You will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."
Luke 13:6-9 HCSB
And He told this parable: "A man had a fig tree that was planted in his vineyard. He came looking for fruit on it and found none. He told the vineyard worker, 'Listen, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it even waste the soil?'
"But he replied to him, 'Sir, leave it this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. Perhaps it will bear fruit next year, but if not, you can cut it down.'"
Mark 11:12-15 HCSB
The next day when they came out from Bethany, He was hungry. After seeing in the distance a fig tree with leaves, He went to find out if there was anything on it. When He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples heard it.
They came to Jerusalem, and He went into the temple complex and began to throw out those buying and selling in the temple. He overturned the money changers' tables and the chairs of those selling doves,
Jeremiah 24:1-9 HCSB
After Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon had deported Jeconiah son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, the officials of Judah, and the craftsmen and metalsmiths from Jerusalem and had brought them to Babylon, the Lord showed me two baskets of figs placed before the temple of the Lord. One basket [contained] very good figs, like early figs, but the other basket contained very bad figs, so bad they were inedible. The Lord said to me, "What do you see, Jeremiah?" I said, "Figs! The good figs are very good, but the bad figs are extremely bad, so bad they are inedible."
The word of the Lord came to me: "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Like these good figs, so I regard as good the exiles from Judah I sent away from this place to the land of the Chaldeans. I will keep My eyes on them for their good and will return them to this land. I will build them up and not demolish them; I will plant them and not uproot them. I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord. They will be My people, and I will be their God because they will return to Me with all their heart.
"But as for the bad figs, so bad they are inedible, this is what the Lord says: in this way I will deal with king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem-those remaining in this land and those living in the land of Egypt. I will make them an object of horror and disaster to all the kingdoms of the earth, a disgrace, an object of scorn, ridicule, and cursing, wherever I have banished them. |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 461
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 8:17 am: | |
One basket [contained] very good figs, like early figs, but the other basket contained very bad figs, so bad they were inedible. The Lord said to me, "What do you see, Jeremiah?" I said, "Figs! The good figs are very good, but the bad figs are extremely bad, so bad they are inedible."
The word of the Lord came to me: "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Like these good figs, so I regard as good the exiles from Judah I sent away from this place to the land of the Chaldeans. I will keep My eyes on them for their good and will return them to this land. I will build them up and not demolish them; I will plant them and not uproot them. I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord. They will be My people, and I will be their God because they will return to Me with all their heart.
"But as for the bad figs, so bad they are inedible, this is what the Lord says: in this way I will deal with king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem-those remaining in this land and those living in the land of Egypt. I will make them an object of horror and disaster to all the kingdoms of the earth, a disgrace, an object of scorn, ridicule, and cursing, wherever I have banished
Note in Hebrew the words used for the two figs are the same exact words for Good and Evil used for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil So what we see here is Figs that are both Good and Evil. Good = tobe H2896 Evil = rah, raw-aw H7451
I don't think I was reading anything into scripture that is not evident elsewhere in scripture. That is why it is so important for good sound study and to check what others (including myself) are saying to see if it fits. I believe the Fig tree fits just don't wear the leaves...LOL
Paul |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 462
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 9:16 am: | |
Hosea 9:10 HCSB
I discovered Israel
like grapes in the wilderness.
I saw your fathers
like the first fruit of the fig tree in its first season.
But they went to Baal-peor,
consecrated themselves to Shame,
and became detestable,
like the thing they loved.
Another interesting fact about the fig tree, it has two seasons, the first season (springtime) figs that were not as sweet and considered a less pleasing crop were considered crop for the poor, The second season crop (fall) was the best crop and was sweet. So in Hosea God found Israel as the first season, less appealing crop not sweet, poor. |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 10:17 pm: | |
The scriptures testify of Jesus and what he has done. So when reading the old testament scriptures we should take Jesus at his word, that they testify about him. Jesus was a redeemer, so to pay attention to what he has redeemed us from is not reading anything into scriptures. In the spirit I can see that these stories that Paul is sharing with us are not just about produce. Even from the beginning of Genesis the redeemer Jesus is illustrated as the TREE OF LIFE. Jesus redeems us from self control, and self justification pictured by the Tree of Knowledge of Good, and Evil. I always try and look for where is Jesus in this , or that story. Other wise its all just a bunch of crazy stories, about crazy people, in crazy situations, or stories about produce. Thanks Paul for your insights.
CHRIS |
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