| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12338
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2011 - 10:42 pm: |     |
Chris, welcome to the forum! So glad you're here! Yes, Dwight Nelson is a dyed-in-the-wool Adventist apologist, and he is the senior pastor at Pioneer Memorial Church at Andrews University.
Colleen |
Cloudwatcher
Registered user
Username: Cloudwatcher
Post Number: 408
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 5:59 pm: | |
Hec, I see multiple, consistent answers to your question here.
I think if an Adventist were to read these, they would say "we believe that! We're Christian!" Problem is, the other half of what SDAs believe, negates these basic fundamentals. They cancel them out. It's like the difference between 100% pure Florida orange juice and Sunny Delight (sunnyD). |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1889
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 10:31 pm: | |
Hec, with regards to your post in the denominations thread,
I have committed to an answer. Three times now. And I've seen other very valid answers from the other members. I'm not sure what you're looking for, since it appears that you're not taking what we've said very seriously. Colleen will say something very similar in her own words. Is it safe to say that you expect each and every one of us to say the exact same thing? If you read though again, you'll see that each of us is in accordance with the fundamental Christian beliefs.
Kind of like, if you asked "what makes up the United States of America?" One might answer '48 contiguous states and Hawaii and Alaska', one might answer 'freedom and justice', one might answer 'democracy' and one might even answer 'a melting pot'. There are all kinds of answers and they're all true about our country. It doesn't mean we disagree, it just means that each of us is contributing a definition to what our country is about.
Here again are fundamental Christian beliefs.
Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary through the Holy Spirit.
He is the son of God.
He is God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. 3 in 1 (not 3 of 3).
He died on the cross to pay for our sins. (His atonement was complete at the cross).
He rose from the dead 3 days after that.
He will come back to resurrect his believers.
Fundamentally, we as Christians take part in communion and baptism.
The gospel of Jesus' death and resurrection saves us and through him we receive everlasting life.
Now those are the basics. Here are some really important things each church should teach, but the cults would have you believe otherwise ~
The Bible is the word of God.
Jesus said he is God. (Not Gabriel, or an angel, or a lesser god or allah or buddah.)
Jesus said that in him there is no condemnation. (contrary to what the IJ says)
We, as Christians are spirits living in temporary bodies. Our spirits are real and can live outside of the body, in heaven with Jesus. (unlike SDA and JW who teach 'soul sleep'. That is definitely NOT biblical or a fundamental Christian belief)
Hopefully you're getting the picture?
When the early church was formed, there were groups, specifically the gnostics and the arians who were spreading heresy and confusion among early Christian believers. A group of the church fathers (from the different churches in the land) decided to get together and come up with a list of common biblical beliefs once and for all. They ended up with Nicene Creed and later, the Apostles Creed. It absolutely had to be established in order to clear up any confusion.
I really hope this makes some sense to you. Like in Cloudwatcher's denomination thread, many different churches (groups of believers) make up the body of Christ. There is diversity, yes, but fundamentally, thanks to the power of the Holy Spirit, we have a strong common core.
Does this answer your question? You can't say I didn't try (3 times now).
 Leigh Anne |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 782
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 12:41 pm: | |
Amen, Leigh Anne!
Hec, if you can ask some more specific questions that build on what other posters have responded, perhaps we can help provide more clarity around a point. But based on what you are asking, I'm not sure how any of us can provide any more. Multiple posters have said the same things in different ways. I know I review all of the posts and see the consistent unity in response.
I don't mean to offend in any way. But you sound like many transitioning folks do early on the journey. Many of us were looking for that "one true church" still being influenced by the SDA remnant concept. The "remnant" or the rest of the woman's children are all of the adopted brothers and sisters of Christ. This is clear when the passage is read within the context of the chapter.
The visible churches are run by humans. We arent perfect. We make mistakes. The vast majority of the NT was written to set straight mistakes of churches. There are no perfect churches, but there is the perfect, invisible, universal Church.
The distinction between the visible church and the invisible church is a concept that is completely outside of SDA thinking and takes a while to truly integrate into our understanding when we leave. |
Cloudwatcher
Registered user
Username: Cloudwatcher
Post Number: 411
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 12:59 pm: | |
Ric_b, excellent point about the invisible and the visible church and what the remnant really means. I think that deserves its own thread! Want to start it?! |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 735
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 1:11 pm: | |
One of the stages of leaving Adventism (or any cult/sect/system) is the discovery of what is NOT true.
This leads into the next phase, the process of discovering (or REdiscovering) what IS true.
They are 2 distinct phases and the space between can be very disorienting, confusing, and frightening.
This is normal. |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 783
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 1:18 pm: | |
I will start that thread. I want to put a couple of thoughts together first. Expect to see it tomorrow. |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1668
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 4:52 pm: | |
Thanks guys for your responses. They are appreciated.
Hec |
Michaelmiller
Registered user
Username: Michaelmiller
Post Number: 296
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 5:48 pm: | |
Freeatlast,
Your statement about 2 phases really resonates with me. I spent several months discovering what was not true and even made my stand by removing myself from church office, etc. during that time. Immediately after I did I "changed chapters" and God started showing me what is true. I discovered the covenants and the gospel and my life has been forever changed.
Michael |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3626
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 6:38 pm: | |
Hec,
You might find this article from CARM to be helpful, as it answers the question from what the Bible itself says are the essentials: http://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity
Jeremy |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 822
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 3:46 am: | |
Freeatlast, you are so right! That's why I think it is so helpful for people to learn about the truth and let that truth dissolve the lies we were taught.
My approach used to be to show SDAs what was wrong with their beliefs. Now I just show them Jesus and the gospel. Once someone knows the real Jesus (taught in the Bible - not SDA sermons or Sabbath school materials) and understands the gospel, all the other SDA doctines will fall apart. |
