| Author | Message | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2011 |
Hi all, Just got off the phone with a couple of my family members, who are Adventists. They know of my decision to leave Adventism, for basics such as EGW not inspired, and several other things. I have not made any statements about any Sabbath convictions that I have as of yet. (My conviction is that the Sabbath is found in Jesus.) An aside, I was reading Jeremiah the other day, and found this part to be really interesting and wanted to share it: Jer 17:20 and say: 'Hear the word of the LORD, you kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, who enter by these gates. Jer 17:21 Thus says the LORD: Take care for the sake of your lives, and do not bear a burden on the Sabbath day or bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem. Jer 17:22 And do not carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath or do any work, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your fathers. Jer 17:23 Yet they did not listen or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck, that they might not hear and receive instruction. Jer 17:24 "'But if you listen to me, declares the LORD, and bring in no burden by the gates of this city on the Sabbath day, but keep the Sabbath day holy and do no work on it, Jer 17:25 then there shall enter by the gates of this city kings and princes who sit on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they and their officials, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And this city shall be inhabited forever. This part got me thinking about 'burdens'. Until reading this part of Jeremiah, I used to think that it was a Pharisaical, 'man-made' law for the people not to carry anything on Sabbath. This, I thought was exemplified when Jesus told the sick man to pick up his bed and walk. And the Pharisees made a big fuss about Jesus making the poor guy break the Sabbath. Yet, according to Jeremiah's 'thus saith the Lord' carrying a burden was actually forbidden by God. So the Pharisees were actually upholding what they believed to be God's law--and missing the point in front of their noses. So it got me thinking more about what the Sabbath could have typified. If Old testament Jews were not to carry burdens--what does that mean for me now, as a Christian? I believe that it means that I need to put my burdens down--all the time, as it is now 'Sabbath' all the time, as Jesus is eternal, and resting in Him is forever. So to further extend it: put your worries down, lay your burdens at his feet, put the BURDEN of salvation down at Jesus feet. He is in charge. The same way that God provided the manna for the Israelites on the Sabbath day--in the form of a double portion on Friday, and it not spoiling the next day--He continues to provide. He gives us the Holy Spirit and many other spiritual blessings. He is the Bread of life. He is drawing us to trust in him. On a physical level the Israelites needed to trust God that he would send the double portion on Friday, and not have to go out on Sabbath to pick it up. The lesson is extended to us--trust God, He is in charge of everything. Lay your burdens down. With regards to the conversation I had just a little while ago... this topic of Sabbath come up unexpectantly. We were discussing good eating habits, and then they mentioned to me, 'you know it's so hard to keep things when you know so many things'. It was intended sort of as a joke, but I think she felt it was true as well. From there it went into a conversation of literally, 'You are saved acting on what you know.' This idea just made me uncomfortable, because it suggests that 1) God has many standards (one for each person that 'knows' something or the other) 2) A burden is created by 'knowing' a 'truth' After much discussion, of which I mentioned these concepts, they said, "What about the people that will be saved without knowing about the Sabbath? But we know the Sabbath and have to keep what we know." I steered clear of Sabbath, and reiterated that it is by believing in Jesus, that He saves us, but to no avail. It was only after I got off the phone that I realized why it made me so uncomfortable, after having the idea settle on my mind. This is a false trick, a counterfeit, its not WHAT we know, but WHO we know. Over and over the Bible talks about knowing God, seeking after Him...: Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-- Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Psa 27:4 One thing have I asked of the LORD, that will I seek after: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to inquire in his temple. May we remember in this journey out of the falsehoods that we have learned, that it is not only truths that we are finding out, but the 'Jesus Truth' of I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. It's really all about Jesus.  | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 226 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thank you, Mkfound. I really appreciate what you shared here. I needed it tonight. <>< | ||
| Michaelmiller Registered user Username: Michaelmiller Post Number: 232 Registered: 7-2010  |
This reminds me of something I recently posted on Heidi Burks' facebook page in response to a discussion there. The context isn't identical (it is addressing a completely different discussion), but I think it fits fairly well with what you are discussing here too: -begin quote- As a SDA I heard many other SDAs ask a similar question [to the facebook discussion] about the salvation of others, except the SDA question was about those who never knew the "truth". The answer was always along the lines that "God would judge them according to what truth they had received" (and either accepted or rejected). Underlying this (sometimes expressed, sometimes not) was that it was the SDA church's duty to take the SDA "truth" to the world. I never really thought about it at the time, but this line of reasoning has some rather odd conclusions: 1) It concludes that truth is relative to what you know. 2) It concludes that by sharing the SDA "truth" you could jeopardize someone's salvation if they reject the SDA "truth". After all, they were saved, relatively speaking, before you shared the SDA "truth", but once you shared and they rejected they became lost. 3) It concludes that formers (much in agreement with what EGW says) are eternally lost... there is no room for post-modern "you believe what you believe and don't bother me with it". Given that message, it is no wonder that I never really wanted to share it [the SDA "gospel"]... but now that I've seen the real gospel I want to share it whenever I'm given the opportunity! "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." -2 Cor 3:6 - end quote - | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1002 Registered: 2-2008  |
I don't like this whole "judged by what you know" idea. This belief is what EGW preached. The vision that she wrote at the introduction of Early Writings is about this very idea. She wrote that there were people walking on this path on their way to Jesus. He was sitting at the other end. She said that the "midnight cry" lit up their path from behind. Those that rejected the "midnight cry", their paths went dark and they fell off the path. According to this vision it didn't matter that they were looking at Christ and making their way to Him because if their path wasn't lit by their knowledge of the midnight cry... they wouldn't make it. You could substitute the "midnight cry truth" with the "Sabbath truth"... it doesn't change. What this is really saying is that it is supposed "truth" that saves you, not Christ. This is Gnostism. The advenstist church has used this as a fear tactic to keep the "little flock" under their control and buying their books. Isn't that what cults do? Great points Michael... I've caused many people to lose their salvation! ha! First I tell them about the 4th commandment. Then I let them in on a secret... that if they continue worshipping on a Sunday, they're being rebellious and therefore not saved. I take 'em down with me! ;) They're so appreciative! haha! vivian | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 497 Registered: 4-2007 |
Sounds more like the newly evolved wishy-washy kinder and gentler (contrary to the Profit) 'evangelical' Adventism. Under Ellen there is the remote hope that Her followers might be saved, unthinkable for the daughters of the whore. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 862 Registered: 7-2008  |
We will be judged by WHO we know...Jesus Christ !!! | ||
| Alison1 Registered user Username: Alison1 Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2010 |
I totally agree that we are judged by who we know...Jesus Christ!!! But you will come across people who will honestly believe in their hearts to show Jesus that they truely love him by keeping the Saturday Sabbath. It's more a matter of the heart. Let's keep that in mind, too. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 863 Registered: 7-2008 |
God sees our heart.He needs no evidence of our love. He knows everything.He knows His sheep.Sabbath keeping will save nobody. Animal | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1006 Registered: 2-2008 |
I think God knows His Animal! ... especially that he likes rootbeer and popcorn! | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 864 Registered: 7-2008 |
Spoken from a wise woman indeed !!! The Lord knows me well. The Lord knows us all. The Lord bless you Indy4now. The Lord bless you all. >>>Animal | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1009 Registered: 2-2008 |
thx Animal!! vivian |
