| Author | Message | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2009  |
A little videoblog to clear this question right up. Body Plus what equals Soul Enjoy. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1203 Registered: 12-2007 |
I REALLY like this  | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 748 Registered: 1-2007 |
I also like this and it says it all. It is too bad the sda's and other cults do not get this! | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 256 Registered: 5-2009 |
Interesting & provocative. I like it too. ~~J9 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12169 Registered: 12-2003  |
I like it, Ross! Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1209 Registered: 12-2007 |
can I put a link to this on FB ? | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1210 Registered: 12-2007 |
or can you ? someone should | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2009 |
Yes you can...I'll also do it on my FB as well. My stuff is copyright...all humanity so feel free. | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2011 |
Please explain to the religious novice here: what is the difference between breath and spirit, please? I feel dumb asking after reading the comments following the posts, but I don't see any difference. Can someone please educated me using very simply (meaning that I don't understand religious terminology)? Thanx! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3621 Registered: 10-2004  |
I would say that a spirit is an intelligent, self-conscious immaterial essence. For example, the human spirit, the Holy Spirit/God's spirit, angels, demons (evil spirits), etc. A spirit is something totally different than physical breath or air (although both concepts were depicted by the same word in the original languages of the Bible--Hebrew and Greek--with the context determining the meaning). Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12342 Registered: 12-2003 |
In John 4:24-26 Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that God is spirit, and true worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth. This use of "spirit" cannot mean merely "breath". It's a part of us that is in God's image, since He is spirit...and it can worship and know God. It is intelligent...as God who is spirit is intelligent. Colleen | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2011 |
So God and the angels have no physical body? Do I understand you correctly, Jeremy??? If so, can you tell me how to find this in the Bible? If I misunderstood you, I apologize, and that probably means that I didn't understand your post. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3622 Registered: 10-2004 |
Natofborg, That is correct. Jesus said: "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:24 NASB.) And in Luke 24:39, Jesus says that, "a spirit does not have flesh and bones..." Also, regarding the angels, Hebrews 1 tells us:
Angels, as well as God Himself, at times appeared in bodily form (such as in Genesis 18 when Abraham fed them meat) in order to interact with humans, but that is not their actual nature. And of course God incarnated Himself as a human being with a human body at the incarnation of Jesus Christ, and will forever be a man while remaining God. But God does not have a body by nature, in His eternal divine essence, which is "spirit" (John 4:24). He is an infinite, pure spirit, and the incarnation, when He took on a human body, did not change that. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on March 09, 2011) | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2011 |
Then what does it mean when the Bible says that we are made "in His image?" I was always taught that meant we were meant to resemble God physically. Since I don't understand any religious terminology, I looked up the word "spirit" on dictionary.com and was surprised to find 25 definitions for it as a noun, some of which support God having a physical body, some of which do not. So I'm still finding myself looking for a solid answer, because it seems that one's belief of God's "body" is dependant upon which definition of spirit one chooses to adopt....I HATE the fact that I am so black and white! It makes all this religious crap so hard to understand! –noun 1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul. 2. the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body. 3. the soul regarded as separating from the body at death. 4. conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter: the world of spirit. 5. a supernatural, incorporeal being, especially one inhabiting a place, object, etc., or having a particular character: evil spirits. 6. a fairy, sprite, or elf. 7. an angel or demon. 8. an attitude or principle that inspires, animates, or pervades thought, feeling, or action: the spirit of reform. 9. ( initial capital letter ) the divine influence as an agency working in the human heart. 10. a divine, inspiring, or animating being or influence. Num. 11:25; Is. 32:15. 11. ( initial capital letter ) the third person of the trinity; holy spirit. 12. the soul or heart as the seat of feelings or sentiments, or as prompting to action: a man of broken spirit. 13. spirits, feelings or mood with regard to exaltation or depression: low spirits; good spirits. 14. excellent disposition or attitude in terms of vigor, courage, firmness of intent, etc.; mettle: That's the spirit! 15. temper or disposition: meek in spirit. 16. an individual as characterized by a given attitude, disposition, character, action, etc.: A few brave spirits remained to face the danger. 17. the dominant tendency or character of anything: the spirit of the age. 18. vigorous sense of membership in a group: college spirit. 19. the general meaning or intent of a statement, document, etc. ( opposed to letter): the spirit of the law. 20. Chemistry . the essence or active principle of a substance as extracted in liquid form, especially by distillation. 21. Often, spirits. a strong distilled alcoholic liquor. 22. Chiefly British . alcohol. 23. Pharmacology . a solution in alcohol of an essential or volatile principle; essence. 24. any of certain subtle fluids formerly supposed to permeate the body. 25. the Spirit, God. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1660 Registered: 3-2009 |
Nat, which one of the 25 definitions gives you the idea that God has a body? Hec | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2010 |
Natofborg, John 4:24 says that "God is spirit" and so we too were made in the image of God, as spirit beings. Being made in His image couldn't mean we are a literal clone of God because we are male and female. Jesus says that being born from above, or born of God, is being born of the Spirit. John 3:6, "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." Look at Ezk 36:25-27, the word used for the Holy SPIRIT is the SAME word for spirit used where He says He will give us a new spirit (there are two different spirit's here, God's and ours): "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a NEW SPIRIT in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. AND I will put MY SPIRIT in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." Romans 8:16 says, "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." The Spirit is not testifying to our breath as SDAs teach. He is not testifying to our mood or disposition. He is testifying to our spirit. When Jesus and Stephen commited their spirit's to God at their death this was not about their disposition or breath. When the prophets or apostles are taken away "in the spirit" it is not their breath that is being taken away and spoken to. It is a horrible thing SDA'ism has done, perverting the true state of man. When Eve ate the fruit she knew God said ON THAT DAY she would die. Satan said she wouldn't. Who told the truth? Who told the lie? Eve's spirit died that day. She knew it too, thats why she hid. Ephesians says that we were once "dead in our sins" Scripture often refers to those who do not belong to Christ as those who are "dead". This is about spiritual death. It isn't until the Holy Spirit quickens our spirits and brings them to life that we are alive in Christ! Without understanding our need for Him, how can we ever truly give our whole selves to Him? Let scripture define it's terms. Jesus is not talking about putting new breath in us, or a new mood, or a new era, or a new disposition...etc. Otherwise, all those things are also what defines the Holy Spirit- since it is the same word used. The Word of God is the truth of God. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3625 Registered: 10-2004 |
Natofborg, I don't see any of those definitions supporting God having a physical body. If you are referring to the ones that distinguish spirit from body (such as a human spirit separating from a human body at death), that only reaffirms the point that God does not have a body. If the Bible said that God has a spirit (just like humans have a spirit) then that could mean that He has a body. But it does not say that God has a spirit, but rather that He is a spirit (John 4:24)--that's the big difference. Interestingly, even Judaism, based only on the Old Testament, teaches that God is incorporeal (immaterial, no physical body, pure spirit). The Judaism 101 site says:
The same site also says:
In other words, as Free2dance said above, it is our spirits that are created in the image of God, not our bodies. Not only has Judaism always affirmed this, but orthodox Christianity has always believed this since it's beginning also. God cannot be limited to a 6-foot tall physical body located within time and space and matter. He is infinite and eternal (outside of time and space). When it says in Genesis 1:27 that God "created" man in His image, it uses the Hebrew word bara (which is the word used for creating out of nothing). This refers to man's spirit. In Genesis 2, when it speaks of how God "formed" man out of dust (speaking of man's body), the Hebrew word yatsar is used. So it is our spirit that is created in the image of God, not our body. Genesis 2:7 says:
And since God is spirit, His "breathing" into Adam "the breath [literally, "spirit"--again same word] of life" refers to God creating a spirit in Adam and him coming to life. It is our spirit within our body that makes us physically alive--living breathing persons. As James 2:26 says, "the body without the spirit is dead." Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on March 10, 2011) | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2011 |
I think I kind of see what you all are saying. But are you guys saying that a person's soul and spirit are teh same thing? that's the impression that I'm getting, but I think I might be misunderstanding becuase Genesis says that when God breathed the "breath of life" (whatever that it) into Adam, he became a living soul. So I understand that to mean that the body + whaever this breath of life is are both needed to create a soul. Please don't tell me I've got it all wrong again...or at least be gentle if I do. Thank you to everyone who is taking the time to break this down simply for me. I really appreciate it. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2768 Registered: 8-2004  |
You're getting there! Spirit and Soul sometimes seem to be used interchangeably, and sometimes together to describe similar things: Isaiah 26:9 seems to use the terms interchangeably: "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." Job 7:11 does too: “Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul." On the other hand, 1 Thessalonians 5:23 mentions both spirit and soul as though they were separate: "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Hebrews 4:12 also seems to point to them as being separate, but just as similar as (bone)joints and (bone)marrow are, "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." As I understand it, whether soul and spirit are identical or just similar, the biggest difference is not between them but rather between our souls/spirits and our bodies. Nowhere have I seen a place where the words body and soul, or body and spirit are used interchangeably (perhaps I just missed it?) | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 887 Registered: 7-2008  |
Hey Jeremy... You stated the following in your post 3622... quote..."And of course God incarnated Himself as a human being with a human body at the incarnation of Jesus Christ, and will forever be a man while remaining God." Where does scripture teach that Christ will forever be a man? Will He always be confined to a physical body? If so, how does He maintain the divine attribute of Omnipresence? Or is Animal off target...sigh.... Animal...maybe I need to cut down on my rootbeer!! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12355 Registered: 12-2003 |
Natofborg, the Adventist definition of the Hebrew word ruah and the Greek word pneuma, (both of which are accurately translated "spirit) to be "breath" creates a host of problems. These words refer not only to man's "spirit", but they also are the words ("ruah" in the OT ad "Pneuma" in the NT) that name the Holy Spirit. If those Hebrew and Greek words mean merely "breath", or the air in our nostrils, then the Holy Spirit would simply be the Holy Breath. Yes Jesus is very clear in John 13-15 that the Holy Spirit is One just like Him whom He would send when He left. The Holy Spirit is a Person, not a force or merely breath. Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses interpret "spirit" to be merely the air in one's respiratory system. This interpretation does not fit the biblical context. Mary's post above gives several examples showing how "spirit" cannot merely mean "breath". Animal, we know Jesus has a "forever body" because He rose from the dead with a glorified human body as the firstfruits of those that sleep. He is the One who shows us what our resurrection bodies will be like. He ascended to heaven from Mt. Olives in that body, and prior to His ascension, He would appear in rooms without using the customary means of the door. He also ate in that body...and Paul tells us in 1 Cor 15 that if Christ hadn't risen from the dead, we would be the most miserable of all people—because His resurrection is our hope. The fact that Jesus has a body but is also God is the singular mystery of eternity. Col 1:19 and 2:9 tell us that all the fullness of deity dwelt in Him bodily...that means ALL the attributes of God were in the man Jesus. His deity was never limited by His humanness...and we cannot explain HOW that works. But Col 1:17 says all things hold together IN HIM, and since holding creation together is the role given to the Son, that had to be true throughout His time on earth, His time in the grave, and also His eternity as the Son of God and the Son of Man in a glorified body. Deity is not limited by physical reality. We can't explain the HOW, but we can trust Him with this mystery. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1666 Registered: 3-2009 |
If all things include the earth and this world, does that mean that sometimes he lets go of the hold? i.e. hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. Hec | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 287 Registered: 2-2010 |
Jeremy, thank you for that word study!! It was very helpful! Natofborg, the whole spirit/soul thing was a question I had too. It turns out there are a lot of opinions on it in the Christian community. I really like what Helovesme2 says about all that. | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2011 |
Thanx again for your replies. Colleen, I think you went over my head. Sorry. It sounds like you're saying that God is not physical, but the Holy Spirit and Jesus are. Now if that's the case, then I'm really confused and messed up! My conclusions so far: 1. We humans cannot have a soul without the combination of both our physical body and that which makes us alive, however you want to call it. Am I right? 2. We are made in God's image solely based on teh fact that we have a spirit. But that's kind of dumb becuase we can't be alive without that part. What idiot thought it necessary to put that in the Bible? Please correct me where I am wrong, or let me know if something is finally sinking into my thick, borg-like skull! LOL |
