Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - 12:28 pm:

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And the official Adult Sabbath School Bible Study Guide (2nd Quarter 2009) actually used the word "re-create" with the word "resurrection" even placed in quotation marks!!!:

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"Of course, there are many aspects of the physical resurrection that we do not understand. But of one thing we can be sure: Our 'resurrection' does not depend on the safekeeping of the present material substances of our bodies. It depends on the power of our Creator to safeguard our identity and to re-create us at a given moment with a new (perfect) body that will never need any cosmetic surgery or antiaging pills.

"We have no idea how God is going to perform this miracle. But the God who could create life here to begin with certainly has the power to re-create the earth and fill it with the people whose identities have been safeguarded in the divine memory. Our hope is not based on anything we can verify with our intellect or our senses. The resurrection involves a realm of existence far beyond anywhere science can take us. But it is based on the fact that Christ has conquered death. As a result, the death of the believer is but a temporary 'sleep' from which he or she will be raised and given eternal life."

http://absg.adventist.org/2009/2Q/SE/PDFs/EAQ209_03.pdf

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Jeremy

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Honestwitness,

If there is no actual continuous existence, then when we are "re-created," it would not be us. It would be clones of us who have the same personalities as us and are made to believe they are us--but it wouldn't be us. It would be entirely new creatures (clones). If I have ceased to exist, I have ceased to exist. A re-creation would not be me. There is no such thing as a "temporary annihilation" as Adventism tries to teach. It is thus a denial of resurrection.

As far as whether the doctrine diminishes Christ, could you clarify what you meant by that?

Jeremy

P.S. Yes, there are verses that say we have eternal life now (1 John 5:13 being one example).

(Message edited by Jeremy on January 02, 2011)

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Honestwitness,

Well, the SDA teaching of no spirits/souls does impact the divinity and humanity of Christ in many ways.

But just sticking with the specific teaching of cessation/re-creation, Adventism teaches that Jesus Christ ceased to exist on the Cross, and that He was "re-created" three days later by the Father. Not only does this destroy the incarnation and the eternal unity of His divinity and humanity, but it means that the Jesus who died on the Cross is not the "Jesus" who ascended to heaven that they worship today. He is an entirely new man, one who did not even exist before Resurrection Sunday (or more accurately, "Re-creation Sunday"!).

But not only does it affect His humanity, but also, because of their state of the dead arguments and fear of consciousness in death, Adventism teaches that Christ's divinity was unconscious during death (and they even teach He had no divine consciousness in life!), thus destroying the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Christ. This makes Christ into a created being, who has only existed for nineteen-hundred and some years. Since He ceased to exist on the Cross, the "re-created" Christ is an entirely new being, a god created by the Father on that Sunday morning.

Also, if Jesus did not exist for three days, that means that some other god was running the universe for those three days, thus introducing polytheism--one god ("the Father") who was running the universe and another god ("Christ") who ceased to exist on the Cross and was dead in the tomb, who would be "re-created" by "the Father" after three days.

According to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, if the Son were to cease to exist, then God would cease to exist because the Son is the one true God. You can't have a Father and Holy Spirit without the Son. But that is exactly what Adventism has happening for three days!

Thus, when we look at how the doctrine affects their teachings about Jesus who came and died as a man, we see that that is where it turns into Christ-diminishing heresy.

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on January 02, 2011)

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By the way, regarding the issue of Jesus Christ ceasing to exist when He died, here are some quotes which show that this is the official SDA teaching:

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"Sinners will never comprehend what Jesus' death meant to the Godhead. From eternity He had been with His Father and the Spirit. They had lived as coeternal, coexistent in utter self-giving and love for one another.

[...]

"Christ became man to die for the race. He valued selflessness more than self-existence." (Seventh-day Adventists Believe: An exposition of the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church (Second Edition, copyright 2005), chapter 2, "The Godhead.")

"e. Christ's promise to the thief. Christ promised the thief at the cross "'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise'" (Luke 23:43). Paradise obviously is synonymous with heaven (2 Cor. 12:4; Rev. 2:7). As the translated text reads, Christ would go to heaven that Friday to be in the very presence of God, and so would the thief. Yet on Resurrection morning Christ Himself said to Mary as she fell at His feet to worship Him, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17, KJV). That Christ remained in the grave over the weekend is indicated by the words of the angel: "'Come, see the place where the Lord lay'" (Matt. 28:6)." (Seventh-day Adventists Believe ... A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines (First Edition, Copyright 1988), Chapter 25, "Death and Resurrection," Footnote 7 e.)

"<SB 17 (John 10:18). All of Christ Remained in Tomb. <EB--Jesus said to Mary, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father." When He closed His eyes in death upon the cross, the soul of Christ did not go at once to heaven, as many believe, or how could His words be true--"I am not yet ascended to my Father"? The spirit of Jesus slept in the tomb with His body, and did not wing its way to heaven, there to maintain a separate existence, and to look down upon the mourning disciples embalming the body from which it had taken flight. All that comprised the life and intelligence of Jesus remained with His body in the sepulcher; and when He came forth it was as a whole being; He did not have to summon His spirit from heaven. He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again (3SP 203, 204)." (Ellen G. White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5, page 1150, paragraph 6.)

"I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with Me in Paradise. Christ did not promise that the thief should be with Him in Paradise that day. He Himself did not go that day to Paradise. He slept in the tomb, and on the morning of the resurrection He said, "I am not yet ascended to My Father." John 20:17. But on the day of the crucifixion, the day of apparent defeat and darkness, the promise was given. "Today" while dying upon the cross as a malefactor, Christ assures the poor sinner, Thou shalt be with Me in Paradise." (The Desire of Ages, page 751, paragraph 3.)

"Only the Father Could Release Christ.—He who died for the sins of the world was to remain in the tomb the allotted time. He was in that stony prison house as a prisoner of divine justice. He was responsible to the Judge of the universe. He was bearing the sins of the world, and His Father only could release Him. A strong guard of mighty angels kept watch over the tomb, and had a hand been raised to remove the body, the flashing forth of their glory would have laid him who ventured powerless on the earth.

"There was only one entrance to the tomb, and neither human force nor fraud could tamper with the stone that guarded the entrance. Here Jesus rested during the Sabbath. But prophecy had pointed out that on the third day Christ would rise from the dead. Christ Himself had assured His disciples of this. 'Destroy this temple,' He said, 'and in three days I will raise it up.' Christ never committed sin, neither was guile found in His mouth. His body was to come forth from the tomb untarnished by corruption (MS 94, 1897)." (Ellen G. White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5, 1114.1-2.)

"The women who had been Christ's humble followers while He lived, would not leave Him until they saw Him laid in the tomb and a stone of great weight placed before the door, lest His enemies should seek to obtain His body. But they need not have feared; for I saw that the angelic host watched with untold interest in the resting place of Jesus, earnestly waiting for the command to act their part in liberating the King of glory from His prison house." (Early Writings, 180.2.)

"To the honor and glory of God, His beloved Son—the Surety, the Substitute—was delivered up and descended into the prisonhouse of the grave. The new tomb enclosed Him in its rocky chambers. If one single sin had tainted His character the stone would never have been rolled away from the door of His rocky chamber, and the world with its burden of guilt would have perished. But it was only for a little while the divine Vanquisher seemed the vanquished. The serpent had bruised the heel, but Christ could not be holden by death. The stone was rolled away. The Lord Jesus walked forth from His prison house a triumphant, majestic conqueror, and proclaimed over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, 'I am the resurrection and the life' (John 11:25).—Ms. 81, 1893, p. 11. (Diary entry for Sunday, July 2, 1893, Wellington, New Zealand.) White Estate Washington, D. C. April 27, 1981" (Manuscript Releases, Volume 10, 385.1.)

"Now, priests and rulers, where is the power of your guard? Brave soldiers that have never been afraid of human power are now as captives taken without sword or spear. The face they look upon is not the face of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth. The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee. They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, 'I am the resurrection, and the life.' As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise." (The Desire of Ages, 779.3)

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And SDA scholar Edward Heppenstall puts it all together in his (deceptively-titled) book The Man Who Is God, and gives us a clear exposition of the SDA teaching on this:

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"In the council of peace it was the Father's plan that Christ should die and rise again for the redemption of sinners. At the same time Jesus Himself chose this, with no constraint but that of love. The Father reawakened Him to life and to divine consciousness at the resurrection. Had not the Father raised Him, Christ would have forever remained quiescent in the tomb.

Ellen White makes two significant statements on this:

When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible.—The SDA Bible Commentary, Ellen G. White Comments, on Mark 16:6, p. 1113.

This does not mean that Christ's deity was conscious while in the tomb and ultimately brought about His own resurrection of the body. Such a thing would have made Christ's death unreal, and the whole sacrifice of the Son of God a deception by having a human body that died while His deity remained consciously alive.

All that comprised the life and intelligence of Jesus remained with His body in the sepulcher.—ELLEN G. WHITE, The Spirit o f Prophecy, vol. 3, p. 204.

He who died for the sins of the world was to remain in the tomb the allotted time. He was in that stony prison house as a prisoner of divine justice. He was responsible to the judge of the universe. He was bearing the sins of the world, and His Father only could release Him.—The SDA Bible Commentary, Ellen G. White Comments, on Mark 16:6, p. 1114. (Italics supplied.)

How, then, do we harmonize the many texts affirming that God the Father resurrected His Son from the dead, and the two texts that give Christ a part in His own resurrection? The Father by His power reawakened the Son to life. That life that was in Christ and belonged to Him was restored to consciousness by the act of the Father. All members of the Godhead were involved in His resurrection. Christ then came forth from the tomb by the life that was in Himself." (Edward Heppenstall, The Man Who Is God, Chapter 5, "The Center of Christ's Consciousness.") http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/mangod/manch5.htm

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And what exactly was this "life" that was still in Christ if there was no consciousness? In other words, it was a dead "life"? What an oxymoron! But they must come up with these crazy-making ideas in order to hold onto their heresy of Jesus ceasing to exist when He died.

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on January 03, 2011)

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Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - 2:30 pm:

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"The Jews then said to Him, 'What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?'
19Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'
20The Jews then said, 'It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?'
21But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
22So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken." (John 2:18-22 NASB.)

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