| Author | Message | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2307 Registered: 5-2007  |
While I attempt to read most of what is posted here on the forum, my limited time on the computer means I often don’t have time to make comments. And, then when I do have time I invariably forget what it is I wanted to say. So today, here goes before it evaporates from my thinking: Keeping in mind some of the things said this past week on the forum, when I came to Matthew chapter 25 in my morning reading, it comes to mind that we should have an understanding of the traditional Jewish wedding practiced in Jesus’ day when reading of the parable of the ten virgins in verses one through thirteen. When a Jewish couple became engaged and were betrothed to each other they were at that time considered married but several things had to occur before the marriage was consummated. Keep in mind the betrothal of Mary to Joseph before Jesus was born. For Joseph to have “put away” Mary would have been divorce on the grounds of adultery and was considered lawful under the Old Covenant Mosaic Law. The Holy Spirit intervened and Joseph did not do this. Now, back to Jewish tradition: When a couple are betrothed to each other, the groom goes away and prepares a place for them where they can live together. When the father of the groom is satisfied that all is in readiness, he then tells the groom it is time for the wedding supper and it is time to claim his bride. At the completion of celebration is when the marriage is consummated and where the bride is now dressed in pure white linen, her wedding gown. This is why Jesus said that only his Father knows the time for him to return and claim his bride, the Church. As members of the Body of Christ we are the Church and we are the Bride awaiting his soon return. What we are not is either the wise or the foolish virgins who are awaiting with the bride for his soon return. Since our groom will never consider divorce, we have assurance of our salvation and eternal life as the Bride of Christ because we have already been betrothed to Jesus. My one and only reason for being fearless is that I know who my Lord and Savior is. This story is all about Jesus and his promise to return and claim his bride. Fearless Phil | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 250 Registered: 2-2008 |
Thanks Phil, Chris | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8791 Registered: 3-2004  |
Thanks Phil. Diana L | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1511 Registered: 3-2009 |
Phil, that sound very good. Who do the virgins represent? Hec | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2313 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hec, While I don't have an iron-clad biblical answer, I do have several theories. However, we should consider Matt. chapters 21 through 25 within a single context before focusing on details. The fact they are vigins suggest that they are awaiting their own groom in the near future but I am not sure how this fits into the big picture. Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6917 Registered: 9-2006  |
Hey Phil, beautiful picture, I'm with Hec, who do the virgins represent? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12005 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great post, Phil. This whole parable looks very different to me since I've allowed myself to consider the possibility that the church (bride) is related to the "time of the Gentiles". I'm not sure how to explain it all, but I just realize that the virgins cannot be the bride, and furthermore, Paul was clear that the time of the Gentiles will reach an end point after which Jews will be "unhardened". Can't explain it all, but the bride is the bride, and our Bridegroom is not returning to collect "virgins" but rather a spotless church (Eph 5). I'm rejoicing with you, Phil—the bride faces no fear of being divorced. The Holy Spirit is our deposit guaranteeing our full consummation as the bride of Christ (Eph. 1:13-14). Colleen | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2009  |
I need to check out what my new Study Bible has to say about the 10 Virgins...I'll let you know tomorrow if it's interesting. | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 572 Registered: 1-2006  |
Good comment, Phil . . . "My one and only reason for being fearless is that I know who my Lord and Savior is." | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2317 Registered: 5-2007 |
I am going to attempt to answer Hec’s original question on just who are the virgins in this parable. Since this is just me talking feel free to pick my words apart. I only ask that you use scripture to support your opinion. First, look at Rev. 14:1-5. While this is in direct reference to 144,000 Jewish evangelist who are described as virgins who have not defiled themselves with mankind, I think it supplies the answer on who are the virgins. By this, I take it to mean that they are those who have not been defiled by the sinful theology of the world. In-other-words, the virgins are those who are saved and have joined the Kingdom of God. Now, turning to Rev. 19:6-10 where the actual wedding supper of the Lamb of God is described. The only ones mentioned as being at this celebration are God (the Father), Jesus (who is the spirit of prophecy), holy angels and the bride. Of course, the Holy Spirit is implied by the phrase; “spirit of prophecy” and makes sense if we remember to not separate them into three different gods. There is only one God. Returning to the parable in Matt. 25:1-13, I believe the 10 virgins represent the existing body of people who claim to be saved. The five who have plenty of oil for their lamps are those who are truly saved and are sealed into the family of God by the Holy Spirit. Their lamps will never run out of oil. The five who are short of oil are not sealed by the Holy Spirit and their lack is tragically exposed as the bridegroom’s arrival is announced. Notice that in this parable, Jesus doesn’t refer to the virgins as guests, only that they were ten virgins awaiting the soon arrival of the groom. Nor, is the bride mentioned. Only that there were ten virgins, five wise and five foolish. The five wise virgins represent the true bride of Christ. PS Isn't it interesting that Ellen can not be the spirit of prophecy now or then at the wedding supper of the Lamb! Fearless Phil (Message edited by philharris on November 25, 2010) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6925 Registered: 9-2006 |
The context of the lesson he is putting fourth starts at verse one and doesn't end until verse 46. I don't think the lesson ends with the ten virgins. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2318 Registered: 5-2007 |
River, Yes, I agree. How do you tie in the ten virgins with the rest of the chapter? In the next chapter, why do the chief priests and elders, at this time, plot to kill Jesus? Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6928 Registered: 9-2006 |
Phil, this question has been on my mind ever since you brought it up, early on in my Christian experiance this caught my attention. I think perhaps for his hearers, they had waited for the savior of the world, God, to come save them, but they weren't ready just as he said.Matthew 25:11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' When those leaders discover they were wrong,and know they have killed the Lord, what might they say I wonder? I think it goes even deeper than that though, even though he said it for their benefit, God is very deep, and I think it also refers to the rapture. This is a time of indifference and carelessness, some will be taken and some left. He compares the second coming to a joyful wedding. The talents all tie in, we should be watchful to discharge our duties, our faith should make us want to actively seek to help others. At Jesus return it is too late to receive him as Lord and savior. Tell you what Phil, if we go through the gates smelling like crispy critters, we'll know first hand won't we:  What these scriptures do for me personally, is to make me want to watch and wait and work to do the best I can while it is yet day, not because I am afraid, but because I love the Lord. Its great to research on the scriptures and even perhaps wonder what the correct theological stance is on them, but a theological correctness does not make me any closer to him. If theological correctness is all I get out of them, I am not benefited much, but if they draw me closer to the savior, therein lies the greatest benefit. So my prayer is today, "Lord I am not sure what you just said, but draw me closer to you today I pray." | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2009 |
I've come to the understanding after much study and prayer that the 10 Virgins are divided thusly: 5 are Born Again 5 are False Converts. False converts are those who were taught a false gospel and believed it for a time,and then gave it up when the promised peace, joy, love, happiness etc. did not come their way. They can also be people who thought they were saved and are in fact not. Since the 5 foolish virgins run out of oil...a picture of the Holy Spirit...it posits that they never really engaged in a one on one relationship with their savior and thuse never truly converted to Christianity. But that's just one dudes opinion. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1538 Registered: 3-2009 |
Run out of oil. Oil represents the Holy Spirit. Once the Holy Spirit is within you, aren't you sealed? Can the Holy Spirit leave you after you are sealed? Just wondering if this wouldn't go against security of salvation. Hec | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2009 |
That's why it's sticky. One could say that you can walk with the Holy Spirit and not have Him in you in such a way that you're certain that you're saved. I lived that way for quite a long time. I've always felt the story was about those who truly are filled with the Spirit and those who are convinced they are but are not. One could also say that both virgins have spirits...but only those born of the Spirit have spirits that are awake. The foolish virgins spirits are still asleep. (Message edited by RossBondReturns on December 08, 2010) |
