| Author | Message | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 176 Registered: 9-2006 |
Many of us grew up hearing that saying, often to remind us to distrust our feelings, or to distrust the feelings of others. However, looking at Paul's description of the Christian life in Romans 12, we see how the human heart is involved. Notice all the words just loaded with the most intense feelings: "Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection...Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer." Rom. 12:9-12 Then look at an example of how Ellen White believed feelings are involved in love: "Supreme love for God and unselfish love for one another--this is the best gift that our heavenly Father can bestow. This love is not an impulse, but a divine principle, a permanent power. The unconsecrated heart cannot originate or produce it. Only in the heart where Jesus reigns is it found." {RC 234.5} Not an "impulse" but "a divine principle, a permanent power"? In other words, God brings His love through our will power to choose and act rightly, not to feel rightly. So abhoring evil, brotherly affection, zeal, fervent spirits, and rejoicing, are all only principled decisions, not feelings. Were you taught that phrase, "Love is a principle, not a feeling"? If so, how has it affected your relationships with people, and with Jesus? Martin C | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11817 Registered: 12-2003  |
Martin, very good question. I was COMPLETELY taught "love is a principle". I was assiduously taught that my feelings didn't "count"—and that went both directions: bad feelings and good feelings. Looking back, I believe that teaching was partly to excuse/cover up some pretty damaging and repetitive behaviors at home that affected me deeply and caused me to make some pretty unhealthy decisions. I also comforted myself with "love is a principle" when I had no idea what it meant to feel love for Jesus. I knew it was expected, and I knew the song said that Jesus loved me, but it made no sense to me. I concluded loving Jesus was metaphorical talk that meant I willfully decided that I loved Him and then stuck to my my convictions because I was "loyal". Internally frustrated, the craziness of believing I loved Jesus/God and knowing I had no corresponding feelings produced extreme anxiety. That teaching really made me believe my life was about biting the bullet and doing what seemed "right". I believed my feelings lied to me, and they were not to be trusted. In fact, I was overtly taught that was the case. Talk about crazy-making... Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 603 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yes, Martin, your experience mirrors mine. Specifically, I was taught "love is a decision". I think there are cases where love is reduced to just being a decision (in difficult relationships), but even when it's a decision, it's a decision based on "surrender". It's been remarkable to me, that in just the past 8 weeks, I've really felt a deep conviction that I need to reach out in love more. I've always hated the Christian cliche of "we need to love each other", because it seemed so trite in the big scheme of things. But really, I'm coming to find, it really is all about love! I have found myself able to love (and truly love!) very difficult people in my life. And from that love stems all sorts of things: joy, peace, contentment, etc. It's amazing. I'm not sure whether to label love as a principle or as a feeling... But for certain, it IS a fruit of the Spirit. I don't think you can actually truly experience love as a non-believer. It's an outpouring of the Spirit. I wouldn't have believed myself 5 years ago, but on this side of things, I can certainly say that I've never loved or felt love like this before in my life. It's more than a feeling. It's more than a principle. It's God's Spirit in me pouring out Himself. Grace | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 604 Registered: 11-2005 |
I just missed your post, Colleen... Yeah, the whole "love Jesus" thing... For sure, I never understood what that really meant. To "love" Jesus meant to obey Jesus. After all, we all grew up hearing, "If you love me, keep my commandments..." It's pretty limiting when you narrow that to The Ten. Grace | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2005 |
Martinc Quote; Were you taught that phrase, "Love is a principle, not a feeling"? If so, how has it affected your relationships with people, and with Jesus? From my personal expereince;
God has lead me increasingly down the path of personal healing that addresses this area and it has freed me to pursue God and chase real and whole life in Jesus. Paul Cross | ||
| Gorancroatia Registered user Username: Gorancroatia Post Number: 108 Registered: 6-2010 |
That phrase is a one of core strenght of bondage in Adventism. I was taught even not to trust mine eyes and ears in last days deception, when Satan will give evidence that he is Jesus, but we should stick to the 10C even if we see Jesus himself say oposite. Because, if we see Jesus that would be Satan in His shape. We cant say what a colosal detrucitive efect that has in lifes of believers!! I myself am much hurt, but even see worse. Peoples are making decisions which are totaly oposite to themselfs, and later when cant endure no longer, they done the most destructive things to them and family. This leads to a denial of reality to the pathological extent. | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2009 |
I'd never even thought about this before but can soooooo relate to Paul's post. Thanks for these thoughts. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8653 Registered: 3-2004  |
As a child I was told you should not feel that way. My feelings were discounted all the time. I have since learned feelings are not facts. They are just how I feel. I now pay attention to them but do not always act on them. As for love, I did not know what that was until I became a Christian. That is sad. Glad I have learned how to love God. Diana L | ||
| Karethamiller Registered user Username: Karethamiller Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2010  |
Hmmm...good food for thought...I will have to think this through more deeply. I can relate to the thoughts on being taught that "love is a decision" and "love is a principle" but I'm not sure of the deeper implications in how I view life and Jesus. | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 177 Registered: 9-2006 |
Very insightful comments, everyone. This is a difficult subject that I'm just beginning to understand, and it's been helpful for me to read your reactions, several times over. Colleen said, "Internally frustrated, the craziness of believing I loved Jesus/God and knowing I had no corresponding feelings produced extreme anxiety." In my case, I was so cut off from real feelings that I tried not to think about it much. Yet I knew the commandment said to love God with all of my being. If I withheld any part of my being, I had broken the commandments. I was obeying Him with my lips, occasionally, but I knew my heart was far from Him. That made the philosophy of selfishness very logical. Grace said, "I've always hated the Christian cliche of 'we need to love each other', because it seemed so trite in the big scheme of things." Exactly. In fact, I hated all that ooey-gooey sentimental talk about loving everybody when it was obvious that some people should just get what they deserve! I had a lot of internal conflict about people, needing them and simultaneously wanting to punish them. My good deeds were often like those legendary Halloween apples: razor blades hidden inside! Paulcross said, "...appearances were more important...This produced the culture of hypocracy - feel one thing but say and do another." This results in "emotional flattening and joylessness." Right, acting loving without feeling it felt so false, so I decided to be more "authentic," resulting in a rather lonely life. I can relate to what you said, Gorancroatia, about people living divided, self-destructive lives. When we can't trust our own selves, or anyone else, life is very painful indeed. We need a miracle. Martin C | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 595 Registered: 5-2009 |
Wow, a wonderful discussion. I am 'feeling'  happy hearing others describe exactly how I grew up! Paulcross, the 'appearance' thing was a BIG thing that bothered me, even as a child. Slap a smile on your face, be a good witness to the neighbors (so that they would notice and join the remnant church), but there was no smile on the inside. Focusing on appearances promoted behaving in a certain way to avoid the judgements of others, which I think in my mind was even more important than what God thought of me. Being born again puts a smile on your inside! Goran, I used to worry so much about Satan appearing as Jesus (at the 2nd coming per GC) and what if he would fool me?! It was frightening! Good question, Martinc! This needs a lot of digesting. | ||
| Harpazo Registered user Username: Harpazo Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2010 |
There is a significant amount of healing needed for me in this area. I am able to learn and believe the Gospel, but the heart connection seems to come with more difficulty. The great commandment - Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. What does that look like? In my developing years it was deeply ingrained in me that love and acceptance from God and those in authority are a response to my performance. They made a decision to love me. God loves us constantly and His Spirit in us enables us to love Him and others. This has been one of the most amazing and life changing aspects of being born of the Spirit. I am seeing the results in how I feel about and respond to my wife, children and the brethren. Praise God! | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2005 |
THE PROBLEM FOR ME can be illustrated this way, As a child I loved my brother very much but we did have some genuine "scraps", My parents would intervene and sit us down and give the "speech", now boys, you must not act this way you are to love each other and forgive each other. Now Stop crying and say you’re sorry [or forgive your brother]. At which point we would "say the right words" but the feelings of anger or hurt remained. We were not to talk about how we felt, we were told what to do. We weren't allowed to say anything more because we should say certain things, the feelings of injury were discounted as unimportant and "un_Christ-like". To talk about those feelings was seen as a denial of our duty to act as Christ would. To express doubt or anger or sadness was seen as evidence of spiritual failure or weakness. This gave rise to two separate and unrelated worlds;
This approach is just going to result in the death of your heart and emotions. Something will die living this way; Appearances, pretense and show will matter but your heart and how you feel become irrelevant and are viewed as a problem. The result was that the feelings and emotions were unaddressed and unresolved, valuable indicators of relationship and experience were "labelled" as unimportant or even dangerous. I believe that our emotional component is a God devised window into our hearts. When we shut this down and devalue it we set up an environment in which depression and illness thrive. This is where I am in my journey. Praying for God to work some healing and make me "free indeed". Paul Cross | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8660 Registered: 3-2004 |
After years of being told "You should not fell that way", I went to see a therapist who suggested a 12 step program. She told me, after a few sessions, that I could identify my feelings better then anyone she had seen. That you God they were not completely squelched. Diana L | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 150 Registered: 2-2010 |
Wow...what honest words. I love this forum. Thank you everyone for sharing your heart. Paul, I REALLY appreciate your last post. I plan on changing how I deal with my little ones when they are upset with each other. This was profound for me. Thank you so much! I have definately thought about this dynamic in relation to my feelings about God. I remember how new it was when I realized, "I actually love Jesus!" Praise God! I knew as an SDA that I didn't feel love for Him (and felt such guilt over that!). I did appreciate Him and experience moments of knowing His love for me during spiritual highs. I was deeply moved in those moments and so desired to respond in a life changing way, but I just didn't know how to maintain that level of emotional denial. You see, I was full of anger and hurt and fear of abandonment that in order to be "good" and act in "God's will" I had to pretend that storm of heart ache wasn't there- and that was slowly killing me inside. I attributed this failure to perform as simply being apart of the Christian walk and thought of this dynamic every time I sang the words, "Prone to wander, Lord I feel it, Prone to leave the God I Love". I figured this was normal. I did want to love Him, i just didn't know how. I also thought that in loving Him I would risk the chance of loosing my family because He said who ever loves his family more than Him is not worthy of Him. I was terrified He would make me walk away from everything I ever wanted to prove my love for Him. I had hoped that loving Jesus was a decision and a faith statement not a feeling- or I knew I was in big trouble. It truely breeds a lonely, flat emotional existance when we do not trust our own emotions or those expressed by the people around us. I too decided that in order to be authentic I needed to seriously limit how many people I allowed in my life. It resulted in a lot of lonliness and I am only now begining to know how to pursue more authentic relationships. One of the most amazing experiences the week after I was born again was going to the local plaza with my kids to run errands and feeling love for every single person I saw. It was so strange! I was floating all afternoon. God has put love in my heart for mankind. I can't say it has been as strong for strangers as I experienced it the week after being born again. But I can say that it is definately still apart of my experience being a Christian! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 154 Registered: 2-2010 |
PAUL! =) I just had the opportunity to practice letting my kids share their feelings with me and each other while trying to resolve a situation between them. The results I got were amazing! This is life changing for my kids and I. Thank you for sharing what you did! This will foster an authentic relationship between the two of them and give them relational skills I was not taught as a child and am struggeling to learn now as an adult. God bless you for sharing your heart! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1089 Registered: 7-2004 |
This is an amazing discussion. Like many of you have shared, I wanted to love Jesus as a younger person, but having to fulfill the basic 10 in order to have a relationship with Him was daunting. I felt false all of the time. I dropped out of the church. After I married I attended my husband's church and learned a little about love that didn't have law mixed into it, but still didn't understand it very well because I was holding onto my SDAness without realizing it. After I had my kids I insisted on returning to the "remnant." Then I experienced a "Holy Spirit" moment that could not be denied and for the first time in my life I questioned the authority of the Adventist Church. Those of you who remember me know my story, so I won't belabor the point any further. All I know is that I understood Joy In The Lord better after my brief experience in my husband's church, and when I expressed that understanding around the members of the SDA church I attended after my children were born I remember the vacant stares I received. These people truly couldn't process what I was saying. They were operating from within the law, and even though I didn't understand it at the time I had begun to operate under grace. I'm here to say that it is okay to question "authority." It is okay to trust in grace. It is definitely okay to live by faith. Oh, and please do trust your feelings. God gave them to you for a reason. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11827 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, Belva. Yes--realizing our feelings tell us things we need to know was life-changing. Years ago a counselor told our son (who has a pronounced "engineering-type" of personality) that feelings are data; even people who lead with their heads instead of their hearts have feelings—even those who don't understand their feelings. Instead of being confused by and afraid of feelings, use them to analyze what might be going on around you. What a concept—that seemed really useful to me, even! After years of trying to deny them, actually recognizing them was paradigm-shifting. Colleen | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2005 |
Free2dance Thank-you for your kindness. You point is a good one. So often I am blessed by the honest stories of pain and healing that all our friends here share! I would like to go on record by saying, "This part of the body of Christ has nourished me and fostered healing. Thank you all." I'm in awe of Jesus! \o/ Paul Cross | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11830 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amen, Paul! I praise Him for being here among us. Colleen |
