| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3401 Registered: 10-2004  |
Pat, I agree with you that the new earth is a new earth.  When I read your first post, I thought that you were expecting her to agree with you about the new earth, and thus see that "new covenant" means the same thing. That was the reason for my post. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 10, 2010) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3402 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hec,
Only if you completely ignore the chronology of Revelation 19-22. Jeremy | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1349 Registered: 3-2009 |
And what does chronology have to do with "new" or "renew"? Hec | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 196 Registered: 8-2006 |
What is the chronology of Rev. 19-22? Why have I never studied this? | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2010 |
Pat, Thank you for those great texts!! | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2010  |
Cortney and Free2dance, You are welcome. If you'd like a copy of the entire correspondence, I'd be happy to send it to you via email. It's about 5 pages. Pat | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2010 |
Sure! My email is in my profile. =) | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2007 |
I have a question.I have discarded all my Adventist beliefs except 1. Though i am not sure totally on the subject.The subject matter is on the final state of the dead.How can we be sure that the wicked are not totally anniahilated? i have never been sure that Adventists were wrong about this. Also is Hec sayin he agrees with the Adventists on the teching about the renewed Earth? Any comments on that anyone? | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2009 |
Hello Jody, Annihalationism was one of those topics that bugged me also, however a pure and unprejudiced look at Revelation 20:10 makes it clear that the Anand Fals Prophet are still alive at the end on the 1,000 years when the Devil is cast into the lake of fire. It all has to do with God being the Just Judge and I wrote a very long (12 odd page word document)that I turned into the following post at my blog: The Just Judgment I hope this helps. Ross | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11703 Registered: 12-2003  |
In addition, when Jesus talks about eternal life and eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46), the Greek word for "eternal" is the same word. Adventists will argue, "But eternal punishment may be being annihilated and kept from being with God." "Punishment", however, is an active word. It's not a word describing lack of participation or knowledge. It's not a word describing lack of existence. The problem is that Adventists don't have a grasp of spiritual reality. "Spirit" does not depend upon a body to exist. Even more than that, Revelation 20 describes the second resurrection—the resurrection of the wicked—as being a resurrection for punishment. In other words, those people are resurrected for hell...and the Bible says "death" is thrown into hell. In other words, death as we know it is the body being separated from the spirit. The final punishment is concurrent with the end of bodies being separated from spirits. Now, I don't think we can totally explain the reality of hell; its something not inside of time—but the hints we have suggest eternal punishment that includes the whole person. And as Ross said, the beast and the false prophet are still in the lake of fire when Satan is thrown in a thousand years later. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1357 Registered: 3-2009 |
Will the beast and false prophet be punished 1000 years longer than the devil itself? Hec | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1358 Registered: 3-2009 |
Colleen says: Does that mean that when a person is sentence to "capital punishment", she will be being put to death on an ongoing manner? Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6692 Registered: 9-2006  |
This ain't the same as capital punishment, people will be separated from their maker. Forever. Cast out into outer darkness. A spirit cannot die. But they can suffer eternal loss. Someone said, "Hells doors are shut from the inside." Maybe that is some what right, they will hate the one who made them. Those that love God await his appearing, those that deny him, do not wait his appearing, they actually dread his appearing. The light of life is in God, Jesus said to work while it is yet day. There will come a time when no man can work, because of the coming darkness for doomed souls. Go into some room in your house at night, turn off the light, then you will have a view of hell, total absence of light, God is light, without his presence there is no light, only torment. We connect fire with light, hell, I think, is the exact apposite. So the fires of hell will not be the same as the fires we know as light. In a dark place, even a burning house gives light, not so with the outer darkness. Matthew 8:12 River | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2010 |
He everyone, Can the concept of a spirit not being able to die be supported directly from the Bible. One thing that is an on ongoing source of confusion for me is this idea that both spiritually dead and spiritually alive people will continue in a state of existence throughout all time. If it is supported in the Bible it seems to me that it was God's sovereign choice to make the rules defining a spirit being eternal - at that point who am I to argue it. Also, from an answer I've received to another post, it seems clear to some that Adam and Eve's spirits had a start point or a beginning at creation. Why is this and can it be supported from scripture? It seems to me that there is a possibility that their spirits could have pre-existed and that creation was simply an event giving them a physical reality. As a transitioning Adventist, support from the Bible is very important and so far God's Spirit living in me has not revealed an answer to these questions. Also, you should all know that I'm not the kind of person who already has an answer and is just throwing out annoying questions to stir things up. I respect all of your opinions and hope that I can also reach some sense of certainty on this issue as well. | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2009 |
2 Corinthians 5 The Temporal and Eternal 1For we know that if the (A)earthly (B)tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house (C)not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For indeed in this house we (D)groan, longing to be (E)clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4For indeed while we are in this tent, we (F)groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be (G)clothed, so that what is (H)mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who (I)gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 6Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that (J)while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- 7for (K)we walk by faith, not by sight-- 8we are of good courage, I say, and (L)prefer rather to be absent from the body and (M)to be at home with the Lord. 9Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be (N)pleasing to Him. When we go to be at home with the Lord if our eartly body or tent is loosed and we die before the Rapture...our Spirit will go right then and there to be with our Lord. When God created us in His image the image of God is in 3 parts. God- Father God- Son God- Holy Spirit Humans also have 3 parts: Body- Our Tent (what holds our Spirit) Soul- What we become when God's Breath fills us Spirit- His Spirit within us. (Which died at the Fall) For more check this out: Three Parts of a Human | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6694 Registered: 9-2006 |
Here's a thought for you, God made the Angels, some turned bad, they are still in existence, What god makes is by his word, he commands it and it is so. if he made the Angels, some turned bad, and he did not make them to cease to exist, what makes you think he is going back on his word to make you cease to exist? Teaching Annihalationism in any form is a very serious offense, because of the consequences of someone believing you, and you being wrong. I think it is the most dangerous teaching to men that anyone could ever teach. When they end up in hell for you teaching it, and you end up in hell for teaching it, they may decide to turn their pain on you for the next upteen billion years. Consider Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6695 Registered: 9-2006 |
Adventist, in their struggle to be perfect, is going to find out just how imperfect they were when they stand before an all powerful, absolutely perfect God, and that without a mediator. Man oh man, is it any wonder why I keep harping on the snake pit? Gee whiz folks, if your out of there stay out of there, and quit looking back on Adventism like it's some favorite likable uncle who has too much to drink every once in a while, and you're smilingly putting the innocent but mischievous soul to bed. River | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2008 |
River, when I read your post it comes to heart the verse that says, "As you believe so shall it be done unto you." What if Adventists get just what they want, standing before God with out a mediator, being held accountable for their sins. If this is true, then we have to put egw, and sda leadership, in the ranks with Hitler, Goebels, Stalin, Moa, and, Hiroheto, leaders who ordered own their people being put to death. I sometimes conjure up in my frustrated mind a bumper sticker that says " sda, a questionable way to live, a terrible way to die" I enjoy believing the Gospel of Christ Jesus providing the atonement, it holds so much promise, it brings so much peace, he did what I am not able to do. I choose to believe in him who is able to keep me from falling, and present me acceptable to God. I can't help it, I would not want it any other way. Chris | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2010 |
I guess that answered my next question of whether this issue of Eternal Conscious Torment vs. Annihilationism is a disputable matter. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6698 Registered: 9-2006 |
Men have sinned and come short of the glory of God, through the word of the simple gospel, those men can be saved, on the other hand, hell opens its mouth wide to receive those who ignore the gospel, and the only way to avoid a hell that was meant for the devil and his angels is through the only provision God has provided, his son Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Men are on the precipice of hell, barely holding on. the only thing that separates them is one breath and if they take that last breath, they will fall, fall, fall for eternity into outer and everlasting darkness, and all they have to do is believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ, yet people lose their tiny hold on life every single day, and start that forever downward spiral into that dark place. And for what? Money? Fame? stubbornness? self righteousness? A false church? Is any of it worth it? Its not difficult to be saved, Just call on Jesus, but its pretty darned easy to be lost, just do nothing about Jesus, that'll do it for ya. Is it a disputable matter? Does a bear crap in the woods? River |
