| Author | Message | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 188 Registered: 8-2006 |
Here is the question I received from an sda relative of mine who has been keeping-up with my discussions on fb. I don't know how to best answer his questions because they just try to turn it around on me. Courtney, tell me this, which day did God make Holy? Is the Sabbath connected to all the covenants or creation, or both? | ||
| Sunnimoreno Registered user Username: Sunnimoreno Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2008 |
Moses clearly stated that God made the 7th day holy (Genesis and Exodus)... there's no question about that. It was God also so said that an ark had to be built because a great flood was coming. If one had an average IQ it would not be hard to make him understand that the command to build an ark was specifically addressed to Noah in God's COVENANT with Noah. Can we apply this same reasoning to the Sabbath? To whom was the Sabbath in particular or the 10 Commandments in general specifically addressed as a covenant? "1 Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: 6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 7 "You shall have no other gods before me..." Deut5:1-7 "19 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. 20 He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the LORD." Ps147:19,20 There is nowhere in the Bible that states that the people outside of the Israelites are bound by the 10 commandments or the Sabbath. The Christians Covenant with God - the New Covenant, is all about Jesus and his death and nothing about a set of laws or a specific day to be considered holy. Did God make the 7th day holy? YES, but the command excluded all who were not bound to the Old Covenant/Testament. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 761 Registered: 8-2008 |
Every seventh day was made holy for the Israelites, as was every single day of the entire Jubilee year (Lev. 25:11-12). Why don't Adventists observe the Jubilee and take a year off from work every fiftieth year? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3399 Registered: 10-2004  |
"Is the Sabbath connected to all the covenants or creation, or both?" Neither. It is connected to only one covenant--the Mosaic/Sinaitic/Old Covenant. Jeremy | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2010 |
Well said! I would add to this that in Hebrews where it says that there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God its not refering to the 7th day. Sabbath does not translate "seventh-day" it translates "rest". Hebrews is refering to an ever present rest in Christ! =) PRAISE GOD! I can't believe how many times I have read this as an SDA and saw it as a proof text! I never thought about the key word "Today". Back in Hebrews chapter 3 v 13 when using the word Today it is refering to every day, " 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness." Then in chapter 4 vs 7-10 (after explaining the kind of rest God is after for His people) it says, " 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."[d] 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his." This has nothing to do with the sequence of days but an ACTIVE statement made by our lifestyle of faith in Jesus Christ alone for Salvation. My grandfater recently asked my mom about us formers and said, "they all keep saying they are free, they are free...what are they FREE FROM?" It breaks my heart. If they only knew... | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8524 Registered: 3-2004  |
Don't forget that Deut 5:15 tells us that God gave the sabbath to the CoI because He took them out of Egypt. Diana L | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 560 Registered: 1-2006  |
God declared that the day was coming when He Himself would do away with the Sabbath along with the other old covenant festivals—see Hosea 2:11. What does the weekly Sabbath have to do with anything regarding our salvation? Paul says it’s about as important to new covenant believers as is vegetarianism—see Romans 14. It’s just totally off-topic and irrelevant for new covenant believers! | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 189 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thank you so much for the verses and info., I will let you know what I hear back, unfortunately I believe my relative still sees/interprets scripture with the 'Adventist veil' so I don't know what the reply will bring. Probably more Adventist's 'textproof'! I just don't like it when people try to twist my point, or even worse than that twist the Holy scriptures. What perturbs me the most is that he was reading my and Diana's conversation with an Adventist on Ramone's Sabbath/Sunday worship parallel. He is saying we need to look at the sabbath with a different point of view, not understanding what Ramone was originally trying to get across. And the fact that he is not even fb buddies with Ramone, but can read the entire conversation bothers me, I have nothing to hide but , I just think it is sneaky, especially when you have no contact or conversation with someone for a year and a half, not even through fb, we never message each other, and they look through conversations and decide to e-mail you and tell what is wrong with your way of thinking! I prayed that God's will be done, on this matter. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2010 |
Cortney, I have a relative who follows me on FB but will say nothing to me about it. I infuriate him and I hear about it through the good 'ol family grapevine. I also have long distance family who have made no effort to be apart of my life in any real way for over 10 years now talking about me and taking an interest in me (not the good kind). There is something deeply powerful at work when we choose to walk away from SDAism. I guess I would encourage you to lean into your Christian friends during this time of conversation with your family member. It is crazy making having these conversations. At some point you may want to think about not having them for a while. Read what 2 Timothy says about engaging in these discussions, and not just whether or not we should, but how we should. Courage! <>< | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8525 Registered: 3-2004 |
He is not an FB friend with Ramone!! I really do not understand how that happens. I know BSkillet wrote on a topic a friend of mine, from my church, had. I asked him about it. It was open to him. I did that the other day to some one else with whom I am not an FB friend. Let us just pray for your "friend". Maybe our awesome God arranged that so he could hear the truth. Diana L | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 763 Registered: 8-2008 |
I think it is always useful to answer a question with another question. That is how our Lord did things when He was on the earth, and it forces the other side to admit any hidden biases or assumptions. So my question is this: What is the "other day" that God designates in Hebrews 4? | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 169 Registered: 5-2009 |
Facebook likes to change its privacy policies every now and then. If you don't want random people knowing what you comment on FB, go check your privacy settings .... Click on Account Privacy Settings And make your CUSTOM setting, (you can even block individual people from seeing your comments/posts). I agree with Bskillet about answering a question with a question. Where (before Exodus and before it was given to the Jews) does God mandate that people rest, keep and worship on the 7th day? this is a big ASSUMPTION that SDAs RUN with..."God gave it to Adam and Eve. God gave it to man before there were any Jews! The Sabbath was instituted at creation!" Blah blah blah.... Pray about that veil. No amount of reasoning and factual evidence will persuade a person who has been indoctrinated since birth. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2010 |
Bskillet, wonderful question! | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1011 Registered: 7-2005  |
Yes, bskillet! Excellent technique! Thanks for making me think about other questions that can be asked. What does the New Testament say about the 10 Commandments? | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2010  |
I agree with bskillet because it works. Whenever I've asked pointed questions like that they have never responded (so far).. they just seem to fade away into oblivion. When they see me, we talk about everything but the answer to my questions. There's this lady I WAS exchanging with on the AllExperts.com site. She revels in being an SDA for over 38 years and thinks she has all the answers and is very arrogant. My last communique with her went something like the following (dealing with her insistence that the Ten Commandments are still binding):
After I challenged her beliefs for a while, I recapped as follows:
This was back in May and she hasn't answered me yet, altho I see that she has posted answers to others' questions. I emailed her (after a while) and asked for a response. She says it's coming but so far, nothing. I pray that my questions have caused her to honestly look for answers and maybe start asking questions. Pat | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 192 Registered: 8-2006 |
Pat, I think I'm going to post some of those verses on my status  When I have the time I will try to post my relatives original questions and my answers in the Member's section. I still haven't heard back, though, that could be good or bad! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3400 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi Pat,
Actually, Adventism does teach that the "new earth" is really just a "renewed/recycled earth"! They say that the fire that comes down from heaven in Revelation 20 is the lake of fire and that after it "annihilates" the wicked, the righteous literally walk on their ashes and God "renews" the earth, after it has been "purified" by fire. Jeremy | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2010 |
Jeremy, Oops! See, even as an Adventist I didn't know what I believed!! Thanks, I'll check it out. Pat | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1347 Registered: 3-2009 |
Finally, they got something right. Hec | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 107 Registered: 7-2010 |
Jeremy, When I reread your response, maybe I misunderstood but I was trying to make the point that yes, SDAs do believe that the earth will be renewed but the Bible says it will be new. The Bible does say that the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
The attempt was to show her that the New Covenant is New, not an extension of the Old and as an example I used the New earth, which is not a Renewed or extension of the Old earth. Am I missing something or taking the new heavens and new earth in the text too literal? Pat (Message edited by patallen on September 10, 2010) |
