| Author | Message | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 754 Registered: 7-2000 |
I figured we should break this topic off and make it seperate from the Finding A New Church thread, which is in danger of being hijacked! Hec, you and a couple of others have asked how (or if) the inspiration of the Bible is all that big of a deal. Does it really matter, or is this just like the question of 'How many angels can dance on the head of a pin'. Fair question--lets look at what the Bible says on the issue of inspiration and then we'll look at what difference it makes. 1 Peter 1:19-21 (ESV): And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. Notice two things here, Hec. First--we (all Christians) have something more sure.....more sure than what? Well, than any other writing. And why is that? Second--Because no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man. How was it produced? By men, carried along by the Holy Spirit. Does that sound to you like somebody receiving thoughts and then figuring out how to write them down? If so, check out this text: 1 Peter 1:11 KJV (speaking of the prophets) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify when it (the Holy Spirit)testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ... Did you catch the point that the prophets did not understand 'what, or what manner of time' the Spirit of Christ which was in them---was speaking of. Hec, how do you write out something that you don't understand? If inspiration is nothing more than thoughts, and you can't understand the thoughts----how do you put 'em into words? And these texts in 1 Peter aren't the only ones that show the work of the Holy Spirit on man. Look at what Christ said in Mark 13:11 (KJV): (Luke 12:11 is another recording of this teaching) But when they shall lead you and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Hec, the Holy Spirit can give you the words to speak, just as He gave the prophets the words to write. Here's a link to a Theopedia article on inspiration with a lot of good links at the bottom of the article. Think on this a bit and then come back with any questions you have. http://www.theopedia.com/Inspiration_of_the_Bible | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1340 Registered: 3-2009 |
Loneviking, Thanks for taking this seriously enough to open its own thread. I'm sorry that the other thread was about to be hijacked by a question a asked. It was not my intention. There seems to be a misunderstanding of what I've said. You say: I don't remember ever saying that the inspiration of the Bible is not a big deal. I think it is a big deal. All I've said is that thought inspiration is plausible. I'm not quite convinced that the HS inspired the individual words used by the Bible authors. In that case it would be dictating, not inspiring. Hec | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 755 Registered: 7-2000 |
No, again, verbal inspiration is not limited to dictation. That's a 'straw man' argument the SDA's love to trot out. There's several ways that the Holy Spirit works to bring out the words to use other than dictation. You can look all through Scripture and you won't find thought inspiration supported. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1344 Registered: 3-2009 |
Could you give me some examples? Hec | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1789 Registered: 6-2006  |
"You can look all through Scripture and you won't find thought inspiration supported." Bill, that's as opposed to Ellen White's writings that have her opinions (as well as many other's) all over the place! Leigh Anne | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2005 |
Isnt' there a quote somewhere from the White Estate that there are errors in the Bible just like Ellen White made mistakes? | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2010  |
I was listening to a podcast of R.C. Sproul's. I recall R.C. saying one of the strongest proofs of Verbal Inspiration is found in Exodus. The instructions God gave in Exodus on how to build the Tabernacle. The detail goes down the UN-natural colors of the pomegranates (i.e., blue, purple, scarlet) on the hem of the priests robe (Ex 31:33). If it was "Thought Based" inspiration imagine how the Temple would have looked if the Israelites (vis., Man) interpreted it? Would we have thought of a BLUE Pomegranate? Perhaps the temple would have looked like a pyramid or golden calf? | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1429 Registered: 3-2009 |
I don't agree with Sproul here. Yes, there are certain parts of the Bible that God dictated, like the 10C, some parts of the tabernacle and sacrifices, but that doesn't prove that the rest was dictated also. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11767 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hec, there is a difference between "dictation" and God's being in charge of the writer's thinking and writing. God can make SURE that the right words are stated. Have you ever been praying as you spoke to someone, unsure exactly what to say, and later discovered that what you said was extremely helpful or comforting? You may have not had any idea at the time...you certainly weren't being dictated to. But the Holy Spirit can influence us specifically when we are surrendered to Him. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1432 Registered: 3-2009 |
"God can make sure that the right words are stated" Definitely! Does that mean that each word is given by God, or that God gave the thought to the author and made sure that the words the author chose were in accordance with His message? Still author choice of words of a message inspired by God. Hec | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 189 Registered: 5-2009 |
Something I came across in the last day or so said, if a bible writer wrote The Lord said followed by a staement in quotation marks that was a direct quote or dictation by God. So, was there a combination of 'dictation' and 'thought inspiration' in what was written in scripture? J9 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11773 Registered: 12-2003 |
What we know is stated in 2 Timothy 3:16:
Our pastor pointed out in a sermon that "all Scripture" includes the "jots and tittles" that Jesus mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount when He said not one jot or tittle would be removed until all was fulfilled. The jots and tittles are actual marks...they're dots and marks that are part of written Hebrew, and they connote distinct shades of meaning. Gary said that when Jesus said not one jot or tittle would disappear from the law until all was fulfilled, He was acknowledging the Torah as God's word—and that every nuance of meaning was God's word and was unchangeable. Fulfillment would "complete" the law—but not change its meaning. We can't explain how inspiration "happened" any more than we can explain the mystery of Jesus' incarnation of the fullness of deity being contained in a body. The hypostatic union of God and man is similar to the union of the Holy Spirit and the human writers of Scripture. We can't explain the "how" of it...nor can we lessen the involvement of either one. It's a mystery, and we can't explain it. But we KNOW that the entire Bible is breathed by God—and the jots and tittles are part of that breathing. Every nuance and detail is breathed out by God. Colleen |
