| Author | Message | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 889 Registered: 1-2003  |
Just a short comment, short because I'm typing on an iPad.  Ramone did not say he was rejoining the Adventist church. Quote, "God is calling me back to my old Adventist church here in Osaka. Not to argue theology with people or try and convince them. But to simply go love them and carry their burdens (and so fulfill the law of Christ). Because they're my family." If a person has a "heart" for his family then he needs to be where his family is, and allow God to use him and let His grace and glory manifest and shine into their lives. Personally I feel - God calls us as witnesses to what He has and continues to do in our lives. Being able to say, "This is how God is leading me and revealing to ME in His Word," is a powerful statement. If I'm totally focused on Him I need not concern myself with the response, He is sovereign and in control. Walking into a "snake pit" as River would say, is not a concern if I'm focused totally on Him and if I quietly and gently keep pointing others to Him as I walk among the "snakes". | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1101 Registered: 3-2009 |
Adding to Seekr777 above: Ramone says:
Hec | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 500 Registered: 3-2009 |
Perhaps the anxiety is affecting our reading comprehension? | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 501 Registered: 3-2009 |
Just to be clear, I meant the above comment to apply to myself, too. I missed the "occasional" part of Ramone's post as well. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6391 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well, you ask about anxiety Seekinglight,seems to me you are about the only one with an anxiety attack. Any time anyone talks about 'Going back in' it is going to bring up honest questions with it. So maybe its your reading comprehension that's affected. So lets get honest here. This whole thing reminds me of some Holly Wood scene where the hero draws his Glock nine and declares, "I'm going back in, while everybody else stands around and does nothing. Well, this is not Holly Wood and nobodies standing around doing nothing or has any fear of whats in there. I'll tell you another thing, when the Holy Spirit tells you to do something, its best not to go and announce it to the whole world either, just go do it, because as sure as you go telling the whole world about it, that is your reward for obedience, and it may cause a withdrawal of his leading. I think the gist of Ramones message is that there are the hurting and the dying still in Adventism, and it is a good message for formers. If there is anyone that has a chance to help some, the formers are it. Its just that I have tried the way Ramone explained it at the end of post, his plans. It didn't work, but then I'm sure that is not all the Lord has if he has been called back in there. Personally, I think he would have been better off to keep the last part to himself, and just go on and do what the Lord told him to do. But he didn't, and it raises serious questions. It wasn't the dream he wanted to share with us that kept me thinking about it all day long. It was just the last paragraph. The advisability of walking back into that nest of vipers to hold their hand is seriously a questionable tactic. But like I said, thats probably not the whole plan, in fact, I hardly ever see the plan God has for me until years later, and then its only a dark outline, sometimes he lets me get a glimpse so I won't fold up completely, but thats about it. I think I've known Ramone a little longer than you have, and I know he has a good heart for all people. I do trust his judgment, so does everybody on here that I know, and I don't think there is a reading comprehension problem. Its just that honest questions have been raised. Further more I won't ask you if I can raise them. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1102 Registered: 3-2009 |
River says:
River, can you give me some Bible foundation for that statement? Thanks. Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6392 Registered: 9-2006 |
Basically it has to do with our own pride which deceives us and defeats us, where do you want me to start? Proverbs 29:23? Daniel 5:20? Basically it takes away from the blessing you otherwise would have had. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1103 Registered: 3-2009 |
It seems like SDAs clogged my brain. I don't understand what a person telling others where the Spirit is guiding him/her have to do with pride. It may be, but not necessarily. I don't understand if it not done by pride, how that would be their reward. Those two verses are not enough for me as Bible foundation for your statement. Waiting for more, Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11358 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hec, I think James 4:13-17 explains what River was trying to say. I want to say that I am not making a statement about Ramone's decision; I trust God to glorify Himself through Ramone in whatever way He desires. But here's the text that, I think, sums up what River is saying:
I think that River is trying to say that, when we know the Spirit is leading us, we are simply to do the thing. If we choose to talk about the plans, we need to submit them, even as we are led, to His will and His direction. Sometimes people (I'm not speaking of Ramone) give "credit" to the Holy Spirit for what they do, and in reality it's more their "flesh" than the Spirit that's behind whatever it is. When I worked at The Quiet Hour many years ago as an assistant editor, I would receive many unsolicited poems readers had written and sent in. I began to notice a strange pattern. When the poems were moderate to good, the cover letters generally said they had written the poems and were submitting them for us to print if we could use them. When the poems were really pretty awful, the cover letters almost always asserted that the Holy Spirit had given them the poem, and they were essentially honoring us with the privilege of publishing them. One such submission I will never forget. Along with the "Holy Spirit cover letter" was a small stack of really poor verse (not poetry!). One of them had a title I will never forget: Things Will Improve After The End. Amen I sincerely hoped so... Colleen | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 700 Registered: 10-2006 |
Actually, when I read River's statement, I thought about the things Jesus taught in Matthew 6. I thought River was talking about the giving in secret, praying in secret and fasting privately. Jesus does say that the Pharisees who did good to be noticed already had their rewards in full. The heavenly reward they would have had was no longer there. Jesus said that when we give the right hand shouldn't know what the left hand is doing. (And am I ever thankful for grace... Those are hard sayings!) Am I close, River? I thought I was finished posting on this thread. Ramone, I pray that you will go in the power of the Holy Spirit. May your testimony draw many to the Savior. Your sister in Jesus, Patty | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6393 Registered: 9-2006 |
Yes Patty, thats it in a nutshell. Communing with the father is a very private affair. There will be circumstances when it's ok to confide what God has given us to others, and there times and circumstances when it's not. Look, I am just speaking from my own past mistakes and goof ups. if God has a thing for you to do, its just best to go on and do it, and not bring unnecessary attention to yourself so that you are unfettered in carrying out Gods instructions and leading, because you may have to be entirely dependent on the daily guidance of the Holy Spirit. More especially when you have to go in among people who are steeped in false religion, and if you're not led, you best stay out of there, its nothing to go courting, its going to cause you unnecessary grief. There's nobody, not me, not you, who can sit here and say what Ramones, or my mine, or anybody elses callings are. The questions that have arisen concerns the general rule of going back into the Adventist church, and joining in with them in their folly. Now Paul teaches in Corinthians I 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Then he goes on to say in verse 15 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. Spiritually speaking, the Adventist church is a harlot, it'll prostitute itself to practically anything just to gain a foothold. They commit extortion just to gain members, spiritual extortion. So how can a christian go down there and jump in its bed with them for any reason? Theres wars enough will find us, without we have to go looking for a war. We need to think in spiritual terms, and watch what we are joining ourselves too, thus my term 'Snake pit'. We need to think in spiritual terms because we are a spiritual body, Holy unto the Lord, and we must stay separate from her prostitution, and stand firm in the Gospel wherein we are called. River | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 502 Registered: 3-2009 |
River, folks are always going to be doing things you don't think they should do. This will remain true no matter how many harshly-worded warnings you give. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6394 Registered: 9-2006 |
Seekinglight, You think I am harsh, but you don't even know me. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 503 Registered: 3-2009 |
My apologies, River. I meant that your posts can come across as harsh to recipients. I know you and the other concerned folks mean well. Sometimes people just don't do what we want 'em to do or see things our way--despite all our best efforts. We repetitively use fear, strong words, etc., and most of the time it's not effective. IMO, this is the root of most of the interpersonal tensions I see on the forum, and why many members have chosen not to post anymore. If you don't see what I mean or where I'm coming from, it's ok. Just another point of view to consider... Ok, I'm going to attempt to take my own advice and let this go. I've expressed my feelings as clearly as I can, and I'm going to let go of the need for anyone to validate or understand my perspective. Isn't it terrific to know our validation and identity is safe w/ Jesus? I love that! Peace out | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 120 Registered: 4-2009 |
Pro 11:14 Where [there is] no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors [there is] safety. People on here need to realize a couple things - email or text does not give one the ability to hear a person's heart or the inflection of their voice. Secondly, if you are going to post here, be prepared that some will agree with you and some wont. Thirdly, get counsel, weighed agains the Word, and then listen for the Holy Spirit to direct your steps. Twenty people could tell Ramone he is wrong, and it might even start to make a guy question himself. But at the end of the day, we each have to make the decisions we make on our own hopefully through the Holy Spirit's leading. I wouldn't want to do what Ramone is doing, but I guess in a way I already have at my wife's church. Get counsel, give people the freedom to express their ideas as long as we are not putting each other down personally, and then trust God for that individual. | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2003 |
When at war, a little espionage is sometimes expedient....and counter-evangelism by a 'prepared' agent is not a bad thing..... Counter-propagandizing the former family is one way of establishing awareness of the cognative dissonence that exists through the teachings of Adventism. This is a work we are all called to perform at some time after we leave or realize the wrong of Adventist doctrine. We are not all called to do it in the same way. I think River is right in his cautioning of us. We need to seek and allow God to guide us in what we find opportunity to share with Adventist people. | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 136 Registered: 6-2008 |
River, I think the misunderstanding can be readily cleared up by one of your own favorite phrases. Ramone is talking about walking with his loved ones into a "stick church" not for purposes of sitting at the feet of the deceivers to absorb their heresies, but to witness to the real TRUTH, and to bear love to his family and those who remain in error. Sometimes this is much more fruitful than open warfare! Ramone is aligned with God and His Truth and armed with prayer--who can prevail against that combination? It might be shocking to see what could happen to the SDA Church if more of us had the courage he has! (And I know I'm chicken, so I merely give answers when I am asked, which ends up being not very often! Most of my own family don't want to get "contaminated" by what they see as my apostasy.) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6395 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well. as long as you don't let the ducks make you believe you're not a chicken I guess you'll do! Sorry, private joke. Sondra's building a bath room, and I'm building a shelf in my office. If you want to know what I meant, you'll have to research back through the threads for duck's and chicken's. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8284 Registered: 3-2004  |
Ahh, I remembered the FAF members name who went back to the sda church for while, at God's prompting, and then left again. The name is Honestwitness. Diana L | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1104 Registered: 3-2009 |
About sharing what the HS tells us to do. Sometimes we share that the HS tells us to say this or that. Sometimes we share that we will be sending our letter of resignation to the SDA church by promptings of the HS. Sometimes we share that we have sent the letter that the HS asked us to send. Sometimes we share that the HS tells us to call so and so or to write to so and so, or to post on FAF of FB. Somehow to share those things that the HS tells us is OK, but to share that the HS tells us to go back and visit the SDA buildings with the purpose of witnessing is wrong. I cannot see the consistency here. Hec |
