| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 2006 Registered: 10-2002  |
I feel impressed to share a dream I had with all of you here on the FAF forum. I had the dream sometime last year but it was full of such a strong impression of sadness that I did not want to write it down like I normally would when God shows me something in a dream. But recently He brought it back to me and told me what it means. The sadness from the dream was so strong, so so so strong that when I woke up I was still deeply sad and full of sorrow. When God brought the dream back to me this last week and I wrote it down, I remembered this one Star Trek episode (I am so NOT a trekkie, btw) in which Captain Picard is rendered unconscious by some probe they come across in space, and in his dream he is part of a family with a lifetime of memories, loves, joys and sorrows... and it turns out the probe was sent out from a planet that was dying and wanted people to know what had once been and about the people who had died. So they'd sent the probe into space and it remained there long after the planet died and everyone had perished. My brother is the Trekkie in the family but I was profoundly moved by that episode and even ended up buying it years later. I didn't know why I was so moved by the sorrow in that episode (that the Captain alone knew, felt and carried for the rest of his life). This depression-era dream triggered the same deep sorrow in me. So I asked God about it and today He told me what it all meant... Having been brought up in Adventism was like being raised in the Great Depression. The "family" (my family & friends in Adventism) all have been spiritually malnourished and we had no hope of being saved. This is soooooo NOT about theology, by the way. I can't emphasize that enough. It's about deeper feelings in the heart. The only consolation we had was our family, our community... that we would all perish together. We had no hope of being saved, but at least we had each other. Yes, this is where "cultural Adventism" had stopped at. But deep inside the soul the sadness and mourning are still there. But then I knew I would survive. This is when I came out of SDA, found rest and life in Jesus. But I would only be able to tell others (Christians, etc.) about my family (my Adventist friends & family) who had died of spiritual malnourishment and had died without hope! I had come to life. I would survive. But the sadness! The sadness of losing my family remained! How do you think GOD feels? Are you rejoicing that you have come to life? Are you rejoicing that you've left "that foolishness" behind? Are you shocked, shocked, shocked at how blind Adventists continue to be? Are you content to just tell other people how blind your old family was? Are you okay with being the only survivor? God, it is so NOT about theology! God, break our hearts with YOUR broken heart FOR PEOPLE! Give us Your heart so that we care more about THEM than their blindness or their mistaken theology!!! God is calling me back to my old Adventist church here in Osaka. Not to argue theology with people or try and convince them. But to simply go love them and carry their burdens (and so fulfill the law of Christ). Because they're my family. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 812 Registered: 12-2007 |
Agapetos: "God is calling me back to my old Adventist church here in Osaka. Not to argue theology with people or try and convince them. But to simply go love them and carry their burdens (and so fulfill the law of Christ). Because they're my family." Do you mean going back to visit or to join them once again as a member ? Please...Be very very careful about how you interpret your dream, especially a dream that is so connected to a episode of Star Trek...???? Perhaps your dream was just that,,, based on the story line of that episode that touched you so deeply,,,, but to make such a drastic decision based on a dream ??? I am VERY afraid for you. Love them, YES, pray for them, YES ! But go back and once again become ensnared in the darkness that they choose to remain in for the sake of dying with them as "family " ???? You asked soe questions; 1. "Are you rejoicing that you have come to life? " My answer would be YES! I am rejoicing that I have come to life in Jesus Christ. 2."Are you rejoicing that you've left "that foolishness" behind? " Yes ! I am thankful to God for bringing me out of that false system of foolishness. 3."Are you shocked, shocked, shocked at how blind Adventists continue to be? " Shocked ? no, because it was not that long ago that I also had those blinders on. But am I willing to go back and join them and put those blinders back on again for the sake of "carrying their burdens"? NO ! I cannot help them out of the darkness if I am engulfed in the darkness myself.... "the blind leading the blind". 4."Are you content to just tell other people how blind your old family was? " I tell people how blind I was. Content to do that ? No. I dont think any of us are content to do that.. otherwise we would not be on here and talking and praying together trying to figure out ways to help reach them. 5."Are you okay with being the only survivor? " No, that is why we try to reach the with the truth of the Gospel of Christ, so that we may help as many more to "survive" as possible. But if they reject the truth and are determined to stay and hold onto false doctrines, to keep the blinders on and reject Christ... am I supposed to say "they are family" and then choose to go back and perish with them ????? Love the, pray for them, help lead them into truth,,, but dont give up and perish with them if they refuse. I do NOT believe that is Gods will ! You will be in my prayers. I truly believe you have misunderstood the dream and what God would have you to do. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 2007 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Skeeter, You're new here and probably don't know me, so I'll explain quickly that I've been out of Adventism for almost 10 years in beliefs and "officially" out since summer 2002, and I'm not going back in beliefs or any mess like that. I'm going back because I'm being sent to intercede for some people who have no place to put their heavy burdens. I don't think anyone should go back for any other reason than if God is sending them. And if anyone is not sure, then it's far better to stay away until the "if" is clear whether it is God's calling to go back and intercede in their midst, or whether to intercede from outside. Merely being "in their midst" will not make anyone perish any more than being "in a Christian church" will make someone saved. The dream merely reminded me of a Star Trek episode. The connection is that they both triggered in me a sense of sorrow and loss. That's basically all regarding that. The way we usually think of trying to "reach" people here is 99% with "beliefs" (theology & doctrines) and a token 1% with other things. I'm being sent back along the lines of what Francis of Assisi said: "Preach the gospel; use words if necessary." I'm not being sent back to debate or argue theology. I've done that before. And it usually deepens entrenchment instead of softens hearts. That's why we talk about trying to "reach" people here and we end up concluding that people are just "determined to stay blind." Yes and no. There are many ways to reach people besides doctrinal confrontation. The great irony is Adventist evangelism is primarily based on doctrinal confrontation... but the same thing is true of Former Adventist evangelism. We have left Adventism, but we still tend to hold onto the same approach in evangelism that they do. It's easy to take the Adventist out of Adventism, but hard to take the ways of Adventism out of the Adventist. The second great irony is the view of them as perishing or lost. Often we have the same sort of spiritual "conclusion" about them that they have about us. They think we're perishing, and we tend to think they're perishing. They do have the gospel of God's grace seriously messed up. But although we have the correct gospel of grace, we tend to think God is handcuffed in His ability to save by the degree of peoples' understanding instead of by the response of their hearts to what He has spoken their hearts (not what we have preached to them, but what He has shone in their hearts). I.e., we often have the right "theology" of grace ...but give them little grace. Here at the FAF forum we see theology and more theology. And in a sense it's good for Adventists transitioning out. But we get stuck here and the same people come here day after day, year after year, exclaiming shocks at new preachers or books or statements coming out of Adventism. We talk over and over about how blind Adventism is, how thick the veil is, and so on, and it's an ever-repeating cycle that I believe actually keeps many people from growing further in Christ. That's the first result. But the second result is that it often hardens our hearts toward the people we called "family" yesterday. Because we concentrate so overwhelmingly on "theology" and look at it as the avenue of reaching (and as God's avenue of saving), we see them with more and more hopelessness and we end up forgetting how we felt when we were in there. While God had sympathy and patience with us, we tend to have very little patience & grace for Adventists when we talk about them here (and Adventists who drop by the forum easily notice this) and we project our own frustrations with their slow-responses our efforts onto God, as if He is frustrated with them, too. The reason I'm going to go back for a visit (whenever I have a Saturday morning off -- I usually work on Saturdays) is because God has called me. He told me it was coming years and years ago, but I didn't know when or how or where. I thought I was finished with this particular church and was basically glad. When I left there I had been in that stage of trying to change things and share what I'd learned about the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit, worshiping God (like actually talking TO Him in worship instead of singing verses of songs) , etc. And I got really frustrated because I was trying to change things patiently. I ended up exploding at someone and after apologizing, prayed at home and God said I could leave. So I did and was blessedly released and in amazing joy. I feel like THAT was my real "baptism"--when I told every friend and family member I had that I had left for Jesus! And now I'm going back for the occasional visit, haha. It's going to be interesting. Of course some people are going to have hope that I'll eventually "rejoin the fold".  I don't mind whatever they think about me. I'm not there to butt heads with anybody this time. I'll be there for people who have a burden and need an ear to listen to them. And I'll get to pray for people. I'll get to be friends with people. And when God makes an opening, I'll get to share some of His grace with them. The fact that I'll be stepping back in there at all is a miracle. The even bigger miracle is that I actually am looking forward to this. The biggest miracle of all is that God softened my heart enough to accept being called to this. He broke my heart with His love for them so deeply that I am not worried about the level of frustration at the thickheadedness of SDA theology which I'll run into again. (Maybe I should mention that I'll take my art pad and do some prophetic painting from my seat to get through sermons, haha!) This is all possible because God showed me that there are people there who have burdens which need carrying, which don't necessarily depend on getting "the right doctrinal understanding" just yet. I'm not going in there thinking that I need to change their doctrinal understanding. I'm going in there to give an ear to some people who desperately need it (I doubt such people will be the zealots there, by the way) and to give some unconditional love to some family... some love not based on their theology but based on their worth in God's sight. Anyway, next time ask me about things before you start being "worried about" me. God is good and more than capable of protecting me. Light shines in the darkness and the darkness does not understand it or overcome it. I've been so blessedly and happily blinded and ruined by His light that I have to laugh at the darkness in His joy and salvation. I'm not going back to visit there alone. He's going with me; we're going together. There is no safer place for me to be than in His will. For me, ignoring His calling and His heart is less safe than going with Him into a dark valley. Bless you in Jesus' loving rest! Ramone | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 2008 Registered: 10-2002 |
P.S. As an aside for anyone else who's "worried about me" and how I arrived at discerning this calling, I have left out a lot of things that led up to this and the confirmations about it (some of which have been coming almost since I actually stepped out the door eight years ago). In other words, this is not based on one dream. Nor is it based on two dreams or other dreams. Nor is it based on what others have shared in confirmation. It's not based on any sort of A+B=C calculation of what God's will is in this matter, either by looking at signs or someone's logical systemization of what to do, etc. It's based on talking with God about these things. I've heard Him speak into my spirit by His Spirit, and well, that's something that no one else is really going to be able to understand by looking at things on the outside. So if you're worried about me, go to your prayer closet and give your worries about me & fears for me over to God, and choose to trust that He is strong enough to take care of & protect me. Then once you've unloaded those things, sit in stillness and ask Him if He will confirm to you (or not) whether or not it's Him who's sending me or if it's of my own will. I can tell you this didn't come from my own will, but I don't expect everyone to believe what I say because I say it, haha. So give over your fears for me to Him, and ask Him to make you willing to be made willing to hear whatever His answer is about it... i.e., ask Him to make you willing to hear His answer even if it's one you might disagree with or think is impossible. | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2007  |
Thank you for sharing your dream and its interpretation. May God bless you as you seek to bless your SDA Osakan family with His love. ~Nancy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8278 Registered: 3-2004  |
Ramone, I will be praying for you and what God wants you to do. For me I pray every day for my brothers and sisters. I do not want to preach to them and God has not asked me to. All He wants to do is love them through me. I have one sister that does very unlovable things. I saw her at a nephew's wedding and God gave me the strength and love to be nice to her. I wanted to be nice to her. I leave the results to God. I do not want to get in our awesome God's way when He is working. Diana l | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11355 Registered: 12-2003  |
God is sovereign. Praying for Him to glorify Himself, Colleen | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 559 Registered: 7-2005 |
Ramone Congratulations for your graduation! You're an alumni of FAFF. You ended your grief process as others of us ended it perhaps around the same time. My plea to you is to think in the categories of stages of grief where different sentiments, attitudes, approaches of post-adventism life are normal. There is a certain time of shock, denial, bargaining, guilt, anger, depression and finally acceptance and hope. People on FAFF are at different stages of recovery and their attitudes reflect this. And also the phases are not as distinct from one another as they may seem on the paper. Now regarding theology, I think the same limits that theology has also the "love" argument has. A former adventist genuine love for adventists (taken in your sense, love with your mouth shut in regard to theological argumentation) will be seen either as a facade made with the intention of trapping them, or a proof that God is making somebody's heart soft and he's going to be again in the fold. As in the case of any kind of perception, if the Holy Spirit doesn't open the spiritual eyes of the people, they will be unable to see genuine love in a former adventist as sure as they are unable to see truth in the theological content a former adventist will present. Remember: a former adventist is more or less an apostate in the eyes of an adventist. It follows that even the most loving deed is seen as a dangerous challenge to the "true believer's" faith, because it seems to argue in favor of the opposite view, that the former is a true child of God and not an apostate. That's hardly acceptable for an adventist. This shatters the world view of adventists and is a theological threat as serious as any other theological statement. My view is that we should do our best to love them and tell them the truth about what we believe and what they believe with love, as we are guided by the Holy Spirit, engage with them in argumentation, if it is the time, but put our trust in the Holy Spirit to persuade them about the authenticity of our love and the truthfulness of our theology. On another side of the issue, I don't think that the Holy Spirit will add something to our argument, so an appeal to Him is not an excuse for a bad argument or a bad behavior. Both are important. Now, regarding the negative reaction on this forum toward the theology of adventism, for those people who are at the incipient stages of exiting adventism, these negative assessments of adventism are the necessary confirmation that they had made the right decision. Remember the turmoil through which we went in the first stages of our exiting process, and we spent a lot of time here which was not in vain: we got the strength to stand as a minority against a majority and hold our place against peer pressure and our own guilty conscience that oppressed us with thoughts regarding our departure from adventism. We felt guilty because we left and angry, and so on, all the phases. So, many "ahhs" from here are for the benefit of those who need reassurance and support to stand firm on the side of the gospel against a toxic system of belief that creates dependence. For all the disadvantages of this repetitive and (for us, veterans) boring process, for the sake of those who are at the beginning of their process, it is worth the money. I think that if we loose our verbal opposition to the toxic system of adventist beliefs we loose the ability and capacity to sustain the hands of those who are victims of the systems and who need to hear these things, beside those who will never be challenged to think deeper about what they believe. Gabriel | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6389 Registered: 9-2006  |
Amen Gabriel and Skeeter! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 594 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hmmmm.... I fully acknowledge that I am in no place to judge a person's conviction from God. God is way bigger than my logic, and if He is calling you back, then who am I to stand in your path of obedience? I just have a couple of questions: 1) What exactly is your definition of "theology"? Are we talking essentials or non-essentials? Truth or debatable matters? 2) If you were a former wicca member, would you feel the same "pull" to love them by being a part of their ceremonies and rituals? (While that may be a harsh comparison, I don't think it's that far off. There is darkness and light, heresy and truth, etc.) I love my Adventist friends and family. I long for them to know the Truth (which while it has nothing to do with the "non-essential theology", it has everything to do with "essential theology"). You make it sound as if the only way to truly love someone in bondage is to stand with them in bondage. And truthfully, that doesn't even make sense... Don't you think that the best way to freedom is to let them know freedom actually exists? This example and witness of freedom is love in and of itself. It's also joy, peace, patience, kindness, long-suffering, and self-control. In other words, the only true way to love someone is through the pull and tug of the Holy Spirit. And I don't believe a requirement for activating the Holy Spirit in our friends and family is to return to the place of bondage... God is way bigger than that! I don't know, Ramone. I appreciate your heart and your desire to love for God, but I urge you to really pray for wisdom regarding this. Don't just pray for God to give you confirmations. Confirmations can easily be manipulated by our own desires. Issues like this calls for wisdom and discernment. While it may not be about theology (non-essential matters), it's all about truth (essential matters like salvation, etc). Truth is the only thing that brings conviction and conviction is the only thing that brings change. Anything apart from the truth will bring about "emotional changes", and those types of changes aren't lasting because they aren't grounded in anything solid. Grace | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 815 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ramone, actually.... after re thinking it over and praying about it... honestly,, my mind and heart are NOT "at ease" about this :-( But it is certainly not my decision, but yours to make in how you will proceed. If you truly believe God is leading you in this, then I guess you have to give it a try.... I dont know what else to say except I will keep you in my prayers. may God be with you, Francie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8280 Registered: 3-2004 |
I do not know how many of you remember one of our FAF members who had converted to adventism. Her husband was adventist. She quit going to church with him for some time, then God let her know to go back. Shucks, I cannot remember her name. She eventually stopped going to the sda church. So, God had a reason for her going back, just like He has a reason for Ramone going back. I will keep Ramone in my prayers thought. Any time we go into an sda church we need prayer. Diana L | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 697 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ramone, I hope you know by now that I love and respect you as a brother in Christ. I so enjoy seeing your art for Jesus and have learned so much from you over the years. I didn't post right away because I didn't want to be one of those people who would immediately say something like "Ramone, stop! You're making a huge mistake." I didn't want to be one of those people... I have been thinking about you and this thread all day - and my heart is strangely sad. I guess I'm wondering what your ultimate objective here is. If your objective is to love these people - you certainly don't need to be in the same church every week. Love is sharing lives and meeting needs and being there for people. I'm wondering about the extent to which you plan on participating in the church. Will you support the church with tithes and offerings? Will you nurture newcombers just coming into the system? What will they say or do if they find out you're telling them the truth and it's different from your truth? Will you bring people you share Christ with to the Adventist church now that it is your church? Since most of the functions of an Adventist church have evangelism as the ultimate aim - and since you now know Christ and that the gospel they're teaching is leading people from truth into error and bondage - what will your postion be? I'm in a different spot since I came in of my own free will as an adult - and don't have family in the system. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for to watch family still in the Adventist church. Part of me so admires what you're doing. The other part of me remembers how even though I made every attempt to be respectful, they resented me and wanted me out because they knew I knew the Bible and differed from them. What do you plan to tell them when they ask why a student missionary would leave the church and then come back? Are they going to think it was a youthful mistake. Will you explain to them why you really left? My biggest question is what about your son? Will you take your wife and family there as the spiritual leader of your family? How do you plan to explain not having them there - or later why you let them sit under heretical teaching? Do you miss parts of the Adventist culture? Are you in fellowship with other believers in a gospel oriented new covenant believing church? Will you continue that involvement? Ramone, I so firmly believe that God's will never contradicts the Bible. The Bible teaches us to love the truth and hate falsehood. I guess I'm having trouble believing God would call you to something that so clearly contradicts the revealed Word of God - something you clearly understand. That all being said, we are to let love be our greatest aim. I admire and respect your heart in all this. I agree that we sometimes get caught up in such doctrinal tangents that love gets forgotten or put temporarily on a back burner. I appreciate the way this post has caused me to reexamine my relationships with Adventist friends. That all being said, God will use you - I'm confident of that. I just hope and pray that if you sincerely believe God is calling you back you will stay in the Word - and in prayer - and in touch with your brothers and sisters here. I hope it is clear that this post is not to hurt or discourage you in any way. I care - I really do... Keep following Jesus... You are in my thought and prayers. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 497 Registered: 3-2009 |
Why don't we all simply trust God will use Ramone and let it go at that? Jeepers. IMO, sometimes this forum feels quite controlling where anxiety and control rule the day. Let it go, my dear peeps, and just be supportive. When you're a believer in Jesus, the devil isn't under every rock. It's getting to the point that formers aren't gonna wanna post on here if they feel called back to the SDA church to help (as Ramone has) b/c they'll anticipate the kind of response they'll get--support mixed with a distinct, palpable fear. | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 698 Registered: 10-2006 |
A catholic brother in Christ that I have known for several years now is going back to the catholic church even though he knows all the error that is being taught there. He's taking his wife and kids who have never been catholic because he wants them to feel reverence for God. He thinks they'll find it there. I think he misses the liturgy and rituals that he has recently confessed to totally enjoying. Am I afraid for them? Yes! A sister in Christ is going back to new agey practices even though she knows she's opening herself up to stuff she may not want to experience. Am I afraid for her? Yes! A friend of mine has just started a "ministry" to people at bars and has begun to drink with them even though he had quite a struggle recovering from alcoholism. Am I afraid for him? Yes! None of those people think their involvement will be a problem for them. The Bible warns us to take heed lest we fall. If you can feel a palpable fear as I right those things, you are very astute. All three people have great reasons for doing the things they're doing. I don't plan on being a hound. I'm going to say it once and start to pray. I stand behind the message I just wrote and pray - how I pray - that Ramone will think about the questions I asked. I think they're worth considering. I care more about the people on this forum than I ever in my wildest dreams thought I ever would. I pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ here like I do for people in my own family. I know the politically correct thing to do is say OK - you think what you're doing is something God called you to - OK - God bless. I don't and can't presume to know whether God has really called any of these people to do anything. Maybe He has. I don't want to caution anyone against obeying the Lord. God MAY have a minsitry for them there. I confess to having a sneaky suspicion that my recovering alcoholic friend misses the bar and thinks he's OK enough now to have 1 drink as he "ministers" to the people there. I know I've gone too far, but hope I have explained my heart. I didn't want to be a wet blanket person - but I AM afraid for you, Ramone. I hope you can respect and hear that. God brought us out of something and it changed our lives. I just think we had better be sure that it is Him - and not just our own wish to go back into it. I've had some pretty kooky - for lack of a better word - dreams. I think the questions I asked are good ones. I've written these things from my heart - not to hurt or wet blanket any ideas, but out of love for my brother in Christ. I am afraid for him. I know it's not politicly correct to say these things. I know I'm just supposed to be supportive and say, Go with God. Ramone, I do want you to follow the Holy Spirit's promptings. I hope my heart in this has come through. I will support you in prayer. I pray God's richest blessings and deepest protection over you and your family as you serve Him Your sister in Christ, Patty | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6390 Registered: 9-2006 |
Amen to every word Patty just said, and Patty your heart was loud and clear the first time. I am so proud of all that have voiced their concerns and questions. I am tired of feeling like I need to get on here and preach another snake pit sermon. I have quite a few Adventist friends, probably as many or more than most of you do, and I tried listening and praying with them about there concerns, and I deeply felt, detected a for sure that all that I accomplished was to make them automatically think that I approved of them and their false doctrine, when I questioned any of them on Bible knowledge they would give the standard Adventist argument they know, then when I quickly cornered them with the word they clammed up, and none of this went nowhere. Following the Holy Spirit is not always cut and dried, but this one thing I am convinced of in my heart is that the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone outside of Bible guides line. Now my listening to their burdens, and bearing their burdens only miss-led them, and I have to live with that guilt. This is one fence you can't ride, you got the Holy Spirit on one side, and Adventism on the other, and splinters for your butt in the middle. Its beyond any question in my mind that I have love for them as people. Love was never a problem, bad and false doctrine is the problem, at least as far as I can tell. If we refuse to ask honest questions, then neither do we deserve honest answers. River | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 498 Registered: 3-2009 |
How is it being politically correct to refrain from using fear to ensure that people I care about do the things I feel they should do? How is it being supportive to compare Ramone's situation to an alcoholic or to entering a snake pit? Why is it difficult for me to trust a sovereign God with the people that I perceive to have "relapsed"? This is definitely a recurring, taboo topic on here. If you plan to hang out w/ SDAs, and you are a former, best not to post about it on here. The response is so predictable... | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 699 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hi Seeking, I have absolutely NO problem hanging out with or sharing my life with SDA's. I do look at them as people who are veiled spiritually. Hanging out with - and loving SDA's is not only a good thing to do, it's our responsibility as the body of Christ. We are to love. Rejoining the Adventist church to show them the way is a completely different story. I so don't and won't pretend to know any of the answers here. I want this to be a safe supportive place for everybody. I do think though that love requires - at times telling a friend (brother or sister in Christ) something different than they would rather hear BECAUSE you love them. I really don't think the majority of people here want to stay away from SDA loved ones. They are - after all - loved ones. Going back into the Seventh-day Adventist church with all it entails is at least for me a much different story. I think there's a difference between expressing an "I hope you'll take a second look before you jump" kind of statement expressed and motivated by concern thats said once and dropped - and controlling someone by fear. I don't like to be controlled either - and actually usually do the opposite of what they've said to make a point sometimes. I'm wondering why you don't think the formers here want to "hang out" with Adventists. I actually think most do. It's not even visiting an SDA church on occasion to be with loved ones. It's rejoining the church that's the problem at least for me. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 499 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thank you for clarifying, Joyful. I've seen this topic as a recurring discussion/debate. When Ramone first posted, I held my breath b/c I knew what was coming. There have been suggestions in the past on other threads that formers should refrain from attending campmeetings, baby dedications, baptisms, etc. I must admit, it's my choice to read folks' well-intentioned opinions. I believe I should refrain from doing so in the future so as to save myself frustration and interpersonal tensions as a result of my posts in response. Sorry everyone. Please carry on (Message edited by seekinglight on June 30, 2010) | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 133 Registered: 6-2008 |
Matthew chapter 10 pretty well covers the ground. God brought it to my mind, so I just reread the whole chapter. Those "lost sheep" can learn more truth from one of their own who has "graduated" than they will get if we all abandon them to their darkness. Ramone, I'll be praying that you will walk in God's strength, for this will not be easy. If you go there and "let your LIGHT shine," God can use your witness. Fear keeps some of us from going to scary places, and many of us need to heed those warnings. But I sense Ramone's earnest desire to shine light into certain dark corners. Our prayer should be, "Lord, thy will be done. If You want Ramone to go, then please make it clear that is Your will. And if this is not Your will, please prevent him from going." Only then will Ramone know for sure what to do. And we will have to respect it, without our own fears being part of the equasion. Ramone, we are praying for you! |
