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| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 690 Registered: 12-2007 |
I just went over to the CARM forum as I had not looked in a long time.. Has anyone seen this thread ? I am doing a copy and paste of this as I think it is important and it CLEARLY shows the outright hatefulness of Ellen White ! How DARE she judge people like this !!??!! "A Glimpse of the Ugly Underbelly of SDAism This thread is in answer to this post by RadLad from the "Straight Answers" thread, below. I am so glad that he posted this, because it gives us a good glimpse of the underbelly of SDAism. Ok. So we are to eat whatever garbage passes our lips and forget about exercise - don't want to look after myself as it must be idol worship (and the fact that the Bible tells us that our bodies are the tmple of the Holy Spirit means little). That snippet, so often misused by Mormons and SDAs, had nothing to do with eating and drinking. IT was talking about not joining one's body with a prostitute. What a croc that is in some of your beliefs. Nope. The crock is yours. This is ridiculous. SDA's are bad because they want to be healthy. SDAism is bad because it very arrogantly takes credit for a gift from God--health. "Stop press! New info out there! It is bad to look after one's self! Details at 6." Really stupid ideas. No, they are not stupid. They are Scriptural. If you want to hear some really stupid ideas, just read on: It is a sin to be sick; for all sickness is the result of transgression. Health Reformer, Aug. 1, 1866 An amazing statement from someone who acknowledged she was sick most of her life! Moreover, Ellen had to have specific directive from the "Spirit" before she would pray for anyone! "I have resolved not to engage in prayer for anyone unless the Spirit of the Lord should dictate in the matter." (Counsels on Health p. 619) "One Who Requested Prayer for Healing. - My husband and I once attended a meeting where our sympathies were enlisted for a brother who was a great sufferer with the phthisic. He was pale and emaciated. He requested the prayers of the people of God. He said that his family were sick, and that he had lost a child. He spoke with feeling of his bereavement. This man had a sick family and had already lost a child. Note the sympathy with which Ellen treated him--refused to pray for him because he allegedly had practiced "solitary vice." He said that he had been waiting for some time to see Brother and Sister White. He had believed that if they would pray for him, he would be healed. After the meeting closed, the brethren called our attention to the case. They said that the church was assisting them, that his wife was sick, and his child had died. The brethren had met at his house and united in praying for the afflicted family. We were much worn and had the burden of labor upon us during the meeting and wished to be excused. B]"I had resolved not to engage in prayer for anyone unless the Spirit of the Lord should dictate in the matter.[/B] She couldn't simply pray for folks until she knew they were sinless! Such sympathy! Such kindness! That night we bowed in prayer and presented his case before the Lord. We entreated that we might know the will of God concerning him. All we desired was that God might be glorified. Would the Lord have us pray for this afflicted man? We left the burden with the Lord and retired to rest. In a dream the case of that man was clearly presented. His course from his childhood up was shown, and that if we should pray, the Lord would not hear us; for he regarded iniquity in his heart. The next morning the man came for us to pray for him. We took him aside and told him we were sorry to be compelled to refuse his request. I am not making this up! This is Ellen White speaking! She refused to pray for someone whose wife was ill, who had just lost a child because he (allegedly) had participated in "self-abuse"! I related my dream, which he acknowledged was true. He had practiced self-abuse from his boyhood up, and he had continued the practice during his married life, but said he would try to break himself of it. This man had a long-established habit to overcome. He was in the middle age of life. His moral principles were so weak that when brought in conflict with with long-established indulgence, they were overcome ... Here was a man debasing himself daily and yet daring to venture into the presence of God and ask an increase of strength which he had vilely squandered, and which, if granted, he would consume upon his lust. What forbearance has God! If He should deal with man according to his corrupt ways, who could live in His sight? What if we had been less cautious and carried the case of this man before God while he was practicing iniquity, would the Lord have heard? Would He have answered? [ How about leaving that to God? This has to be the epitome of self-aggrandizement! To refuse to pray for someone because he had (allegedly) brought illness upon himself by "self-abuse,"( which we know is a ridiculous and superstitious teaching of the 19th century), claiming that they were saving God the trouble of making the wrong decision!! And she continues: This is not a solitary case. Even the marriage relation was not sufficient to preserve this man from the corrupt habits of his youth. I wish I could be convinced that such cases as the one I have presented are rare, but I know they are frequent." (Child Guidance p. 450-1) And so Ellen herself divides people into categories of those she can pray for and those she cannot pray, because God will not hear her prayer! You may say: "Why not, then, take hold of the work, and heal the sick as Christ did?"--I answer, You are not ready. Some have believed; some have been healed; but there are many who make themselves sick by intemperate eating or by indulging in other wrong habits. When they get sick, shall we pray for them to be raised up, that they may carry on the very same work again? GCB APR.03,1901 So before we can pray for someone, we must ascertain that they have not "made themselves sick"! IOW, we must be omniscient, be able to see past and present and know all there is to know about a person before we can call upon God! Many have expected that God would keep them from sickness merely because they have asked Him to do so. But God did not regard their prayers, because their faith was not made perfect by works. God will not work a miracle to keep those from sickness who have no care for themselves, but are continually violating the laws of health and make no efforts to prevent disease. When we do all we can on our part to have health, then may we expect that the blessed results will follow, and we can ask God in faith to bless our efforts for the preservation of health. He will then answer our prayer, if His name can be glorified thereby. But let all understand that they have a work to do. God will not work in a miraculous manner to preserve the health of persons who by their careless inattention to the laws of health are taking a sure course to make themselves sick. So only those who keep themselves healthy can ask God for healing?? Where is the "miracle" in that?? Those who "keep themselves healthy will not NEED prayer for healing! In the word of God we have instruction relative to special prayer for the recovery of the sick. But the offering of such prayer is a most solemn act, and should not be entered upon without careful consideration. In many cases of prayer for the healing of the sick, that which is called faith is nothing less than presumption. Many persons bring disease upon themselves by their self-indulgence. They have not lived in accordance with natural law or the principles of strict purity. Others have disregarded the laws of health in their habits of eating and drinking, dressing, or working. Often some form of vice is the cause of feebleness of mind or body. Should these persons gain the blessing of health, many of them would continue to pursue the same course of heedless transgression of God's natural and spiritual laws, reasoning that if God heals them in answer to prayer, they are at liberty to continue their unhealthful practices and to indulge perverted appetite without restraint. If God were to work a miracle in restoring these persons to health, He would be encouraging sin. The sanctimony! The unmitigated gall to sit in judgment upon God! The mandating what God "can" and "cannot" do! There is no lack of arrogance in this woman! It is labor lost to teach people to look to God as a healer of their infirmities, unless they are taught also to lay aside unhealthful practices. Oh, my! In order to receive His blessing in answer to prayer, they must cease to do evil and learn to do well. No point in praying to God until you have stopped sinning!! Their surroundings must be sanitary, their habits of life correct. So if your house is not clean, forget trying to ask God to answer your prayers! They must live in harmony with the law of God, both natural and spiritual. If you break the law, forget praying! Your prayers will not be heard! If that is not bad enough for you, just stay tuned. It gets worse! Continued Last edited by DrPatti; 03-31-2010 at 04:13 PM. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 671 Registered: 7-2004 |
Skeeter, Wow.........I believe she knew she didn't have any special gift from God for healing, and uses these excuses to cover up her failures at having the faith to heal! I remember reading how she had prayed over some people and there was no healing. She was all about looking good. This is so disgusting. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11175 Registered: 12-2003  |
She was, actually, a fraud--it's pretty impacting to me to be studying 2 Timothy in our women's Bible study. In chapters 2 and 3 and the first part of 4 Paul is so STRONG in his warnings and descriptions of false teachers. They are to be stopped and exposed... Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1960 Registered: 4-2000  |
Actually, Ellen White's anti-masturbation stance made her look very good in Victorian America. With abundant anti-masturbation crusades in the nineteenth century, she simply was a reflector of her times. Thus, historians have consistently included Seventh-day Adventists in their history of sex (including John Kellogg who made radical male circumcision prominent in America under the guise of restricting masturbation). Dr. John Kellogg volunteered to perform male circumcisions without anesthesia and applying carbolic acid on so-called "oversexed" girls. Of course, in today's world, Ellen G. White and John Harvey Kellogg are the targets of deserved jokes and scorn. Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on April 27, 2010) | ||
| Paulineprimacy Registered user Username: Paulineprimacy Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2010 |
The phrase "context is everything" (C.I.E.)applies to alot more that interpreting Scripture. It applies to the limited understanding of sexuality, psychology and neurology that existed during times even as recent as the 19th and early 20th centuries. We can look back and view those positions as monsterous and hateful, when really they may have been the best efforts at concientious faithfulness that was possible in their context. I recall the study of a pediatric neurologist back in the '80s who may have accurately diagnosed EGW as suffering from trances and seizures resulting from her horrific facial injuries as a young girl. Who in her time would have understood it as such? | ||
| Paulineprimacy Registered user Username: Paulineprimacy Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2010 |
What does CARM stand for? | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1688 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Paulineprimacy, Welcome! CARM stands for Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. Here's the direct link to the SDA forum there ~ http://forums.carm.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?58-Seventh-Day-Adventism It's a much larger site around the forums, so be sure and look around.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 692 Registered: 12-2007 |
I got so frustrated reading the link with a couple SDA's defending Ellen no matter what was said... kept saying HER words were being taken out of context,,, and they would give whole paragraphs showing things she had written that they liked,,,,and only a small blurb quoting the Bible ! Even where it was shown by directly quoting EGW and some of the ignorant things she said like that she refused to even PRAY for anyone she thought was "practicing self abuse" or any other sin ,,, they STILL defend her ! She said all sickness is caused by some sin in peoples lives... SHE was sick most of her life ! I guess she must have been a really bad sinner ! She should have advised people not to pray for HER because since she was so sickly, she was a sinner. What a dumb and wicked wicked witch ! Every time I read verses in the Bible telling where the false prophet(s) ARE.. I think of Ellen. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11181 Registered: 12-2003 |
Me, too, Skeeter...me too. Colleen | ||
| Paulineprimacy Registered user Username: Paulineprimacy Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2010 |
SDA theology and position on EGW are sad examples of investing your identity on denominational distinctives rather than on the pure good news of Jesus Christ as revealed in the NT. The organization must continue supporting its claims no-matter-what or the whole thing goes down the tubes. This is the price of religious idolatry. |
