| Author | Message | ||
| Jlondon81 Registered user Username: Jlondon81 Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2004 |
Hello FAFers! I just got done listening to a message from People to People Ministries' Metro Bible Fellowship dated 18 October. That weeks' message was given by Richard Peifer, a member of the ministry staff along with Bob George, who runs the ministry. (Some of you may be familiar with George's book "Classic Christianity.") Anyways, Peifer gives a well-timed expotition on SDA along with his personal tesitmony in the message. I say well-timed due to the fact that he makes clear mention on the Great Disappointment which Adventists "celebrated" last Thursday. What's also interesting about his testimony is he talks at length about his work with Walter Rea! The message is available on the People to People website, http://www.realanswers.net. Go to "Radio" across the top of the screen, then click on the 10/18 link to listen to the message. It is also available for download on iTunes, just search podcasts for People to People. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2243 Registered: 8-2004  |
Thanks for sharing this! It is well worth hearing. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 622 Registered: 8-2008 |
That was a great message. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10555 Registered: 12-2003  |
Richard Peifer is a regular contributor to our version of Sabbath School Commentaries at www.BibleStudiesforAdventists.com. Check it out! By the way, the BibleStudiesforAdventists.com site has been a surprisingly well-trafficed site. We've had emails from China, Japan, South Africa, and Australia to say nothing of responses from the USA from people who are using these--often using them as they prepare to teach Sabbath School classes in their local churches. We never expected this site to be so frequented...but it's really being accessed. Thanks, Gilbert, for your suggestion! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7652 Registered: 3-2004  |
As you so frequentlys say Colleen, God does not waste a thing. He uses everything. Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 497 Registered: 2-2006 |
Great! Thanks for sharing. This is what my Regular Christian friends need to hear to understand where I came from. The leader of our Revelation Study Group needs it not only because I'm there (which is challenge enough  ), but because there's a current SDA lady attending. What a great tool for sharing! Pegg  | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 166 Registered: 5-2009 |
Praise God, Colleen, for heavy traffic!! What wonderful news about the SS lesson commentaries | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 455 Registered: 2-2003  |
Thanks for the audio link, JLondon. Very good testimony. Adrian | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5682 Registered: 9-2006  |
Piepher said one thing that really rang my bell, he said, “You have to ‘hear’ the error in order to understand where the former is coming from.” That is where it comes into play here. Some come here to read and declare, “You folks are here to bash Adventist!” Not true at all. Adventist cry, “Oh they left because they were treated wrongly, and now they are bashing us, they get joy out of bashing us.” Again, not true at all. You have got to ‘hear’ the error, in order to understand where you are coming from. Not only does the classic Christian need to ‘hear’ the error, also the former or the person processing out, needs to ‘hear’ the error. I keep harping on petting the snake, why? Because you need to ‘hear’ the error, the error of Adventism is not harmless, not immiscible to Christianity. The Adventist believes the error and they mean to pass that belief on however they can, by hook or crook. Like wolves, error hangs around the periphery of the sheep pin, waiting to introduce the error to whomever they can. I am not fooled, I don’t have anything personal against my Adventist friends, but they would have introduced the error into my life and destroyed my faith in God, and you better believe it. Its not a feather in my hat that I ‘heard’ the error, it was God, who allowed me to ‘hear’ the error. The mercy of God who gave me the will to sift through the smoke screen for days, months, years so I could ‘hear’ the error. The mercy of God who protected me while this thing pulled at my soul, “Come hear the error, but don’t ‘hear’ the error. When I get around them, I go where angels fear to tread, and I better have ‘heard’ the error. The former goes back down there and sits in their services and has not ‘heard’ the error, and that’s where they need to ‘hear’ the error. They have heard the error, but they have not ‘heard’ the error. We need to make it plain that none of us belong in error, have to place in error, and error has no place with us. You need to ‘hear’ the error in order to know just what it is you are coming or have come out of. You won’t have a real appreciation of what you have come out of, until you ‘hear’ the error. I don’t care how much of a goody two shoes of a Bible spouter you are, you get around Adventist and they’ll sink your butt so fast it will make your head swim, and you won’t come out till you’ve paid the last farthing! You go back down there to sit among the shlocking of the water bottles, the whispering and the back bitings and their song of doom and gloom, don’t tell me you’ve ‘Heard’ the error, you have heard the error, but you did not ‘hear’ the error, and you need to ‘hear’ it for what it is and take it seriously. Don’t try to ‘fog’ us here, this is a bad place to get into to try and ‘fog’ people, because, just as sure as God made little apples, somebody is going to call you on it. They (Adventist) are not standing in their services saying, “Behold the Lamb of God.” They are holding up a hard to understand scripture out of Revelation and Daniel, along with Ellen White, introducing error to young and old alike, there is no one sitting there in safety. You don’t believe me, look at Acts 3: 22 and 23, what does it say in verse 23? They (Adventist) are not hearing Jesus, they are hearing error, yet not ‘hearing’ the error. Jesus was always saying, “He that has ears to hear, let him hear.” But they are too busy hearing Adventism to hear Jesus. Hearing Ellen, to hear Jesus say, “you that are heavy laden, come unto me, and I will give you rest.” Ellen had a vision every time this little group of people needed confirmation. How convenient! Piepher said he could go for days on this error. Well… we do go on for days here friend. Its sort of a relay here, when one wears out, two more will step up to bat! The pony express of former Adventist you might say. We don’t get tired, we just change horses. Peifer says, what all this really means is, “If you have any question, go to Ellen.” What a travesty fostered on people! Adventist say, “Oh we are part of mainstream Christianity, its just that our beliefs are a little ‘Peculiar.” Peculiar my hind end, it’s insane and it is error. There is no message of hope in Adventism, it’s a message of despair. Peifer said when he was studying for the ministry; he was literally going insane, because he was trying to deal with the sin in his life. The truth is, is that we have to take our sin and pile it at the feet of Jesus, and let him deal with it. That’s all we got to bring to Jesus, is a load of sin and burden, and in his mercy, thank God! He takes it all away and we can say with joy unspeakable, Abba Father! Peifer talks about the technique of ‘fogging’, when anyone comes up with an objection, the church leaders ‘fog’ the people. “Yes, we will take care of that.” But they are just ‘fogging’ the people, calming them down until it is forgotten. There are times and places where we need to uncover error. Somebody say’s, “Oh don’t talk negative to Adventist”, but they need to ‘hear’ the error too, there are souls who are dying without ever having known the real Jesus and the Holy Spirit of the Bible, people who are stuck right in the middle of religion. How can we keep silent? As I bring an end to this tirade, I want to remark on how I perceive the book of Revelation. Revelation, to me at least, seems more ‘intense’ than the other books of the Bible right on to the end where God is ready to finish up the greatest best seller book of all time, the Holy Bible. Every time my group comes to the end of Revelation, I feel like, Wow! All this is going to come to an end, and we will see the Jesus of the Bible in person. We need to ‘hear’ the error and depart from it. Not only that, we need to identify it, and call it what it is. Do we dare ‘fog’ them? Or should we speak clearly? At the end of Revelation in verse 22: 11 it says, Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. As a tree fall’s so shall it lay. Wham! In the direction it was going. If we are unjust to Jesus in holding up error, refusing to ‘hear’ that error as the Holy Spirit deals with our hearts to do so, then what? River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7654 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks for the link. I just listened to it. I used to be afraid of Revelation. Now when I read it, I see Jesus throughout all of it. Diana L | ||
| Jlondon81 Registered user Username: Jlondon81 Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2004 |
I'm glad you all enjoyed it as much as I did. Seriously, I was just sitting here at work catching up on People to People podcasts when that one came up on the playlist! I thought of you guys immediately! I'm not certain how long Peifer has been on the staff at People to People, but that they have a former SDA on staff in a large capacity is profound, especially for a ministry like theirs. I've been listening to the show for a long time now, Peifer is a regular on the show, usually backing up Bob George and Bob Christopher in answering questions. Recently, I've noticed hints of a larger SDA audience just in the nature of questions they've been fielding even in the last month. Two weeks ago they took half the program to answer a question someone had about the Sabbath (the person was clearly SDA, even without saying so, as he was arguing their classic talking points). Colleen, thanks for the link. I was not aware he was involved in any former SDA outreach. I also wasn't aware of his deep SDA roots until yesterday, so that he's involved with you guys is tremendous! Joel | ||
| Jlondon81 Registered user Username: Jlondon81 Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2004 |
Colleen, forgive me as I have not been a regular reader of Proclamation! for quite some time, but how long has Richard been working with you guys? I just found the link to his 2007 article in Proclamation! Are there others? | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 588 Registered: 7-2004 |
Very interesting, River. Believing in ellen does not allow for the wonderful gift of "resting in Jesus". I don't think she thought you could rest for a minute! The only thing you could do was worry and work on working on your salvation, and even then, believing you might actually make it to heaven was iffy. | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 526 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks again for the link, Jlondon. I've given it to a friend who found it useful and today I gave it to the leader of our Bible Study Group and a woman in the group who has asked to get together so I can tell her my story about how He brought me out. Peifer tells about the origins of SDA - and his personal experience - objectively enough and yet with just the right mix of passion that I am not afraid my friends will write him off as some kind of wacko. I find the origins of SDA very difficult to explain to regular Christians because they just have no basis from which to reference what I'm trying to explain to them. It is very long and involved, and I find that I lose them part-way through. I am hoping that asking my friends to listen to this guy first will give us some of the needed basis so that I can answer some of the questions he is sure to generate and then we can get on to talking about what they see as the "interesting" part.... The Story Of How Our Great God Reached Out To Pluck One Who Was Bound In This Cult. Pegg (Message edited by pegg on November 03, 2009) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1823 Registered: 4-2000  |
Visual aids, at the beginning of a public presentation, that work very well when exposing the errors of Adventism to a Christian audience may include showing an empty or full box of Kellogg's Corn Flakes and an empty or full carton of Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme pies (holding up one in each hand). Since most people in the audience have already eaten these foods, you can ask the audience for a show of hands to indicate if they are familiar with these items or have ever eaten them. Some diet-conscious ladies may not want to publicly admit their "sinful" sweet cake indulgence. To make them feel more comfortable, I usually confess to the audience that I actually look like I have eaten alot of them (smile). After all, I am a former Adventist. They will be most surprised to learn that Seventh-day Adventists have actually changed the way how Americans and others eat their breakfast. Before your showing these visual aids, many in the audience may have thought that they have had no personal impact from Adventism at all. You might add that the more Little Debbie's they eat, the more they help evangelize for Seventh-day Adventism due to student labor, donations, and tithes. Moreover, the vast majority in the audience never even realized that they are actually on the SDA evangelistic team in some way already (including physicians who display the blue, mylar Bible Story book by Arthur Maxwell in their medical offices). These amusing, yet factual, visual aids quickly get the attention of your sleepy Sunday School audience. Try it! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Agapeta Registered user Username: Agapeta Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hi friends, This is my very first post in this forum. I am glad you are here. First issue: I have a cousin who converted to SDA from being a life long Presbyterian after a particularly heavy SDA evangelistic campaign in my area. We don't communicate much, but I would like to be ready for the next family event to learn some things to say to her about her SDA conversion. What do you suggest? Second item: I was not able to access the Peifer talk about his background. My computer is old and I don't think it will support ipod. I am using Windows XP. I myself came out of nearly thirty years in a cult and am passionate about truth issues. The People to People ministry was the first one God used to pick me up when I began leaving my cultic group, and it took me many more years after first reading Classic Christianity to really see what a mess I had been in. I am very glad others here have been helped by Classic Christianity and the People to People Ministry. The third thing I am concerned about re SDA is that a neighborhood pastor is ministering in our public housing unit where I live and they rent the local SDA church for meeting space on Sundays and Wednesdays. What disturbs me most is that this man seems to sincerely believe that SDAs are just another denomination of Christians. He says the SDA pastor really loves Jesus. Another man in this church group which rents the SDA church property says they are just another group of Christians who love Jesus and worship on Saturday instead of Sunday. Somehow I don't think this is right. Do you have or know of some free literature I can place in these people's hands to enlighten them regarding the cultic nature of the SDA church? I sent the pastor (not SDA) a short email recently on the subject of my objections to what he had planned for Easter, but have not heard anything back from him. This is what I said: QUOTE: Regarding what you said below about removing divisions among the Body of Christ, I agree this is often a good thing, as long as the "others" are actually members of that Body. Adventism is a cult and they preach another gospel, which is not another, and it cannot save. I do not say all Adventists are unsaved, for I don't know them all. Adventism goes after other Christian "denominations" to add to their numbers rather than specifically to the uncommitted or the unbeliever. In addition, Seventh Day Adventism specifically says that you must worship on Saturday, what they call the Sabbath, and obey laws to be approved of or accepted by God. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, is given equal authority with the Bible. These things all distinguish them from true members of the Body of Christ. They preach Christ, plus.....Ellen White, the Sabbath, baptism into their "church," obedience to laws, which are all completely antithetical to what Paul tells us in his epistles, which is salvation by faith in Christ alone through grace plus nothing. I believe you know this. Adventism likes to present itself to other Christian groups as just another group of Christians who love Jesus but worship on Saturday instead of Sunday, until you get inside, then they add Ellen White and all the other laws they insist upon for acceptance by God. Some divisions are important and necessary and in this case, I believe the truth of the Bible divides us from Adventism, and that this division should be maintained. When a preacher says he loves Jesus, but denies Christ's gospel by adding to it that which nullifies it, what kind of love is that? I have no problem with renting space from the SDA to use their building, but I don't agree with worshipping with them. It distresses me to hear them described as brothers in Christ. END QUOTE I'd be glad to hear from anyone who would like to respond. Agapeta | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hi Agapeta, I just want to say welcome. Chris | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3214 Registered: 10-2004  |
Hi Agapeta, Welcome to the forum! I think what you wrote is very good and accurate. As for some literature to give them, the following "Thumbnail Sketch" summary of Adventism may be helpful: http://www.formeradventist.com/studies/topical/thumbnailsketch.html Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11133 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi, Agapeta! I'm glad you've joined us! I agree--the above paragraph is excellent. In addition to the Thumbnail Sketch Jeremy linked above, you might also like this just-uploaded Comparison of Adventism and Evangelical Christianity chart: http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/studies/comparison.pdf Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2075 Registered: 5-2007  |
Good morning Agapeta, Welcome to the forum and thanks for joining with us. Your summary of the problems with SDAism is very good. You abviously know what the bible teaches and have done your 'homework'. I am looking forward to hearing more of your story and what Godly wisdom you have to share. Fearless Phil |
