| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2010 |
An SDA pastor posted this on FB tonight: http://vimeo.com/10647056 Is this the false gospel Gary was talking about at the end of the FAF weekend? The pastor's comment to this video was: "Odd that this would be a controversial idea . . . go figure . . ." It also had SDA pastor Chris Oberg miss quoting Jesus in the video!! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2010 |
Oops, I was thinking in context of the beattitudes. She may have been in the context of Luke 6:20. | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2006 |
Free2dance, which pastor thought it odd that the idea would be controversial? Gary, or the pastor who posted the video? Martin C | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 873 Registered: 1-2003  |
He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God? Micah 6:8 | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 874 Registered: 1-2003 |
Luke 6:20 And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2010 |
No, an SDA pastor who very much ties politics into Christianity. He says Jesus would have been a democrat. Im not trying to get into politics at all. But I am curious if this is what Gary was refering to when He spoke about the Gospel being portrayed as a socio-political movement rather than what happened on the cross. | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 133 Registered: 9-2006 |
"Social Justice" is such a politically loaded term. When we are asked if we support it, we can ask, "What do you mean?" The specifics are so important here. If we mean what Amos, Joel, Micah, and Jesus meant, then our commands are clear. Rescue the fatherless, the widow, the poor; work for justice. Christians have generally been disobedient in this. Social justice is also firmly attached to the philosophy and politics of the Left. This includes the forced redistribution of wealth and an unshakeable trust in the State to solve human ills. Social justice has some goals that echo the prophets, but the historical record reveals repression towards the body of Christ. The Right is also guilty too, given its exuberant trust in market forces to solve human ills, religious nationalism, and here in America, an idolatry of the US military. I know I need to repent of all of these. That said, given the great freedom the Gospel brings, I believe we can support a free society with "free minds and free markets," with a visible, strongly active church. We can't just advocate for the poor, but show Christ's heart for them in a radical way. Often, we just send our well-intentioned little checks off somewhere, or merely preach to them about hard work and good behavior. I work in a ghetto here in San Bernardino, CA, and see what the power of the Gospel does for these kids who were hopeless. Greater than any government program or private enterprise is the power of God for salvation. And we are the body of Christ who make delivery. | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 134 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ok, thanks Free2dance, I'm glad to know that. Gary Inrig has a refreshing view of the gospel and politics, and yes, he was talking about a political gospel that is not the real gospel. He also believes in social justice in a strictly biblical sense, and would like to see more "workfare" programs based on OT ideas, such as the "corners of the field." Martin C | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2010 |
I like what you say Martin. So based on what you saw in the video, was that promoting a political social justice or did you get the sense that was about a strict biblical mindset? Based on what I know about Pastors Chris Oberg, and the one who posted this on FB, (they have both preached politics from the pulpit) I get the idea this includes how we vote. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11119 Registered: 12-2003  |
Free2dance, I got the impression the video was promoting a social gospel, which is a focus on "social justice" rather than preaching the gospel. I totally agree with Martin's statements above. Christians are called to practice care for the poor and ministry to the needy. But, as Gary pointed out, these are are fruits of the gospel, not the essence of the gospel. The essence of the gospel he defined using Paul's words in 1 Cor. 15:3-4, that Christ died, was buried, and rose on the third day according to Scripture. This kernel of fact is the essence of the gospel. The social implications of the gospel are fruit the gospel bears in born-again Christians, but if we substitute social justice for the actual kernel of the gospel, we veer away from the life-changing reality of the gospel and substitute good works for Jesus. People who are not first impacted by the essence of the gospel cannot produce true fruit. Good works and social justice are good things, but they are not counted as "good works" by God unless they are the work of the Holy Spirit flowing from the life of an adopted child of God. Good works can be done by natural humans; it is the work of the Spirit that is the real fruit of the real gospel. The essence of the gospel must come first; only then can social justice be the fruit of the gospel. At any rate, social justice is not "the gospel". Colleen | ||
| Snewbie Registered user Username: Snewbie Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2010 |
Since all human gov comes at the barrel of a gun, I doubt God would demand social justice by Gov decree. God warned the Jews what would happen if they insisted on having a king(human). I cant remember where in the bible it is, but HE warned that we would basically be slaves of the king. The early church in Acts 2 seemed to get along just fine without gov decree or a king(in terms of social justice). What happened? | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 284 Registered: 2-2005 |
As has already been mentioned, the term "social justice" has become codespeak for redistribution of wealth and the promotion of the social causes of the left. Is it just me or does it seem ironic that Adventists are now co-mingling church and state given it's traditional aversion to this notion? In my opinion, what they end up doing in this case is voice selective concern for only certain groups of the downtrodden and ignore perhaps the most important social justice issue of our time...the killing of unborn humans in the womb. I suppose it's more cool to get fired up by things like the environment or gay marriage these days. As Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence -- “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” In my view, the unborn child is fully human and therefore deserving of the unalienable, God-given right to Life. Abortion kills that life so, therefore, JUSTICE demands that we act. Rather than demonstrate concern for that injustice, these "social justice Christians" actively promote the ideology of those championing the continuation and increased incidence of this atrocity through federal funding. Sorry, but it's hard for me to take these people and their "concern" seriously. (Message edited by Heretic on April 10, 2010) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1226 Registered: 7-2007 |
Heretic, I guess (in the case of abortion), they figure that if they don't SEE the baby, then it's not human. Actually I think they get their idea for that from the word translated "spirit" in the Bible. It comes from the Greek word "pneuma." Back when I was an Adventist, I even heard an Adventist preacher say how the word simply meant "air." He used examples like pneumonia and pneumatic. That way they can say "oh, the baby doesn't have his/her spirit until they take their first breath." What then, do they do with a verse like 1st Corinthians 2:11? "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." "Spirit" in this verse comes from the Greek word "pneuma." I have my Greek/English New Testament and my beginning Greek textbook in front of me as I write this: "Greek for the Rest of Us" by William Mounce. Turning to page five, I see the Alphabet chart with the 24 Greek letters and their sounds. Looking at the Greek word translated "spirit" and looking up the sounds of each Greek letter - the names of each character are; pi-nu-epsilon-upsilon-mu-alpha and the sounds of each are p-n-e-u-m-a. Strange. Even Adventist pastors take Greek classes, don't they? They must either be dishonest or be doing what I did when I was an Adventist. I thought: "This-verse-doesn't-make-sense-from-the-SDA-church's-standpoint,-but-somewhere-Ellen-White-must-explain-it,-the-church-CAN'T-be-wrong!!!" And I would just read through it quickly and then put it out of my mind, certain that the SDA church was true! Adventists are then, in effect, calling the Holy Spirit the "Holy Breath." | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2066 Registered: 5-2007  |
Well, it then follows if you want to be consistant in your definitions, an evil spirit is nothing more than a person with bad breath.  Instead of telling a person to go and brush their teeth, tell them they are demon possessed. Fearless Phil | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 963 Registered: 3-2009 |
Phil, with an L, this takes the cake. Hec | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 964 Registered: 3-2009 |
Heretic, I guess the other side of the coin is the death penalty. Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3208 Registered: 10-2004  |
Hec, Is the death penalty not justice? What does the Bible say? Jeremy | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 285 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hec, what do you mean by that? | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 965 Registered: 3-2009 |
What do I mean by? My reply to Phil? His joke. About the other side of the coin? Some people feel comfortable taking a life at the beginning, while other feel comfortable taking it a the end. It's my position that taking a life, is taking a life and only God has that prerogative. It might have been OK in old covenant. But Jesus himself said, "did you hear that it was told to the old times, eye for an eye, tooth by a tooth? But I tell you..." so it seems to me like the rules changed in the New Covenant. It just seem to me that it's the same coin with two sides. I prefer to take the whole coin, because it seems to me that it's very difficult to split the coin. Hec | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2068 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ah shucks, you'all done and got serious on me. Just for that you need to read Chis Lee's study on 'breath' and 'soul sleep' in his post #1544 where he is responding to Angelcat: http://www.formeradventist.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/4529/8170.html Fearless Phil |
