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Surfy
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Username: Surfy

Post Number: 649
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What possible reason would there be for observing Easter if one is still tied to the old covenant?

If one puts themselves under the law, aren't they actually denying the birth, death and resurection of our Lord?

Romans 8:1-2: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."

Two laws here....The old one made with Isreal called the "law of sin and death" and under it we fear judjment day.

And the new one called "law of the Spirit of life" in which there is no condemnation because Christ has taken our sin and even has become sin in our place.

When we celebrate Easter, we celebrate this fact. If we are worried about having our sins revealed on judgment day, we are saying that Jesus did not really die for us and did not really take our sins.

So to those still putting themselves under the old covenant law, you might as welll just stay in bed this morning, get up late and color some Easter eggs with your kids because I don't think you really "get" the whole Easter thing anyway.

Surfy
Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 797
Registered: 2-2008


Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Surfy~

I've wondered lately why adventists would even baptize. If baptism symbolizes our death into Christ and that we are cleansed by His blood... how does that work for an adventist who believes that Christ didn't complete atonement at the cross? If Christ is completing atonement for them currently, I'm not really sure how His death fits into their theology... their baptism wouldn't represent a "complete" baptism since they still have sins listed in books.

This whole investigative judgment/pre-advent judgment keeps bringing up more and more questions.

... confused in Indiana,

vivian
Nowisee
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Username: Nowisee

Post Number: 349
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Surfy, I totally agree! Ran into a wonderful Christian acquaintance yesterday in the market. She asked if I was celebrating Easter with my family (she was buying all kinds of delicious food for an Easter dinner). I said "No, sdas really don't celebrate Easter". She looked at me strangely, so I told her that #1, I have observed that they really don't want to do anything that might give some significance to Sunday in relationship to Christianity and #2, since they do not believe the atonement was completed at the cross, what do they have to celebrate?

Vivian, sda baptism is more about becoming a church member. Even tho' the words "Father, Son & Holy Spirit" were used, I had no idea what baptism really meant. If you don't know/understand the Biblical gospel, then church membership makes sense. We were baptized into God's "true church". If there are sdas that understand the true meaning of baptism, I think it is the exception. I certainly didn't, nor my friends or family--I suppose there are some sda churches where the pastor may be familiar with the real gospel, and maybe they baptize "into Christ"...but then what are they doing in a church where the prophet of that church absolutely teaches that the atonement was not completed at the cross, etc.?
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 2059
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are the baptismal vows which are published in the SDA church manual:


quote:

Commitment
1. I believe there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of
three coeternal Persons.
2. I accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice
for my sins and believe that by God's grace through faith in His shed blood
I am saved from sin and its penalty.
3. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal Saviour and believe
that God, in Christ, has forgiven my sins and given me a new heart, and I
renounce the sinful ways of the world.
4. I accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, my Intercessor in the
heavenly sanctuary, and accept His promise of transforming grace and
power to live a loving, Christ-centered life in my home and before the
world.
5. I believe that the Bible is God's inspired Word, the only rule of
faith and practice for the Christian. I covenant to spend time regularly in
prayer and Bible study.
6. I accept the Ten Commandments as a transcript of the character of
God and a revelation of His will. It is my purpose by the power of the
indwelling Christ to keep this law, including the fourth commandment,
which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath
of the Lord and the memorial of Creation.
7. I look forward to the soon coming of Jesus and the blessed hope
when "this mortal shall. . . put on immortality." As I prepare to meet the
Lord, I will witness to His loving salvation by using my talents in personal
soul-winning endeavor to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing.
8. I accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the
gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church.
9. I believe in church organization. It is my purpose to worship God
and to support the church through my tithes and offerings and by my
personal effort and influence.
10. I believe that my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and I will
honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful;
abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of
alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its
forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in
narcotics or other drugs.
11. I know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught
by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I purpose, by the grace of God, to
fulfill His will by ordering my life ha harmony with these principles.
12. I accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion and
desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His
forgiveness of my sins.
13. I accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the
remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and
language are invited and accepted into its fellowship. I desire to be a
member of this local congregation of the world church.



Yes, it is clearly all about joining the SDA church.

Fearless Phil
Free2dance
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Username: Free2dance

Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Phil...thank you for sharing that!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 11111
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep--it sure is about membership...

Thanks, Phil!

Colleen
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3206
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Notice also that they have to agree with the statement that the SDA Church is the remnant church (#13). And people think this is not a cult?!

Jeremy
Skeeter
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Username: Skeeter

Post Number: 645
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont have a problem with 1-5
#6, the Ten Commandments are a "transcript of the character of God" ????
# 8+9 are pretty questionable...
the way #10 is worded members cannot work at a cash register in any store that sells either alcohol or tobacco products since they are "abstain" from their use manufacture OR sale.
#11 Gods "will" is that we submit ourselves to the principals of the Seventh Day Adventist church ?????
#13 THE remnant church ! Yea right...not.

Makes me wonder.... did we even REALLY read this garbage before we agreed to it ? Apparently I didnt. :-(

Just makes me realize all the more that I need to be baptized again,,, cause I dont think that one counted for much in the eyes of God.

Skeeter
Psalm107v2
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Username: Psalm107v2

Post Number: 628
Registered: 10-2008


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vivian, to add to the baptism issue I would also say that not only is it tied to membership but it is also tied to the SDA love of rules/commandments. Baptism is likely to be the first "rule" they follow other than Sabbath-keeping. I have heard of SDA baptisms where they did not go through the studies first and just said come on and get baptised now where they told people take off your jewelry. The people were expected to follow the rules-not study the issue of jewelry or baptism for that matter but you want on the boat, baptism is the ticket do it now. (kind of reminds me of the Mormon baptize now plan)

Skeeter, when I became a Christian I delayed getting baptised because I wanted to be baptized in the Jordan River. My pastor (at the time) sat me down and let me know it was my decision but he let me know he felt strongly that I could not be obedient and still under my old SDA baptism. The baptism of the believer is so important. Forgive me if this is a bad example but if I was married before (SDA) and decided to be the Bride of Christ (Christian) I couldn't in good conscience say well I had a marriage certificate before so that is good enough. I would say bring on the new marriage!!!


Enoch
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3207
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a great example, Enoch! I agree--the old "marriage certificate" is only good for being torn up and thrown away.

Jeremy
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1681
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GREAT to see your face, Jeremy!

:-) Leigh Anne
Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 801
Registered: 2-2008


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Leigh Anne! GREAT to "see" you Jeremy!

vivian
Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 802
Registered: 2-2008


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I felt the same way about sda baptism... it was my way of being inducted into the sda club. I never did see my baptism as dying in Christ and being raised to life. This last May, Sergio and I along with our kids were all baptized at our church. I stepped into the baptismal and the water was pretty bad... it looked like brown well water (a little on the murky side). Then I chuckled to myself... I was glad to leave all my spiritual junk in that water!

It's just sad to see that not only Christ's finished work is skewed by sda theology, but also baptism. Baptism is such a beautiful moment in a believer's life and within my experience as an adventist it has been whittled down an induction to a supposed remnant church.

vivian
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 11120
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, so great to "meet" you face-to-face! Yes, good example...

Colleen

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