| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1938 Registered: 10-2002  |
Hi everyone, It's been awhile and things have been busy over here, but for one reason or another I've been led to write up a study on the subject of "tithing" -- whether or not it's just Old Covenant or not. And I felt impressed to share it here with all of you!  (I'll be putting it up on Facebook later, too.) It's in "worksheet" format so that you go through and read the stuff for yourself. In some cases it's necessary or helpful to read the immediate context around the verses that I cited. It's not an exhaustive study, but I think it covers almost all the bases. It's in six parts. The first part will follow this post, and so on as I have time to put it up. Bless you in Jesus! Ramone | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1939 Registered: 10-2002 |
TITHING - A WORKSHEET STUDY by Ramone Romero I - FROM THE LAW OF MOSES 1. Who was tithe for? (Numbers 18:20-21) 2. What were the Levites' jobs? (Numbers 3:5-10) 3. Tithe was 10% of what? (Leviticus 27:30,32) a. __________________ b. __________________ 4. So did carpenters, craftsmen, midwives, weavers, servants & blacksmiths tithe? Circle answer: YES or NO 5. If tithe was converted to money, how much was added to it? (Leviticus 27:31) 6. How often did the Israelites practice tithing? a. (Deuteronomy 14:22) ____________________ b. (Deuteronomy 14:28) ____________________ 7. What was done with the tithe? a. (Numbers 18:31) ________________ b. (Deuteronomy 14:22-26) _________________ c. (Deuteronomy 14:28-29) _________________ QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION Did you know that Jewish synagogues & rabbis do not receive tithes? [1] Did you know that Orthodox Jews in Israel who choose to tithe give it only to charity? [2] Since Orthodox Jews give their tithes only to charity and not to synagogues, does it look good if Christians use tithe primarily to support their own church buildings and staff? Since tithe in the Law strictly commanded the Israelites to remember and support the needy, which do you think is more in the spirit of the original tithe command--Jews tithing to charity or Christians tithing to the church? If the Jewish faith does not need to be financed by "tithe" in order to survive, does the Christian gospel need to be financed by "tithe" in order to survive? Do you think "Christian tithing" helps to show Jews that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1940 Registered: 10-2002 |
(TITHING STUDY - WORKSHEET II) II - "TITHES AND OFFERINGS" IN THE BOOK OF MALACHI 8. What was the main message of Malachi to the people and priests of Israel? (Malachi 4:4) 9. Was Israel obeying the Law very well? What were they doing? a. (Malachi 1:8) __________________ b. (Malachi 2:9) __________________ c. (Malachi 2:11) __________________ d. (Malachi 3:5) __________________ e. (Malachi 3:8) __________________ 10. In Malachi 3:8, does "offerings" mean !voluntary gifts of money!? (see Leviticus 1-7) Circle answer: YES or NO (What did "offerings" mean? __________________) 11. In Malachi's time, what kinds of offerings were the priests & people giving? (Malachi 1:8, 1:13) 12. So what did "robbing God of offerings" mean? 13. What were those offerings supposed to represent to Israel and to the world? (1 Peter 1:18-19, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12-14, 23, 26, 10:11-14) 14. What does "all of the tithes" (or "the whole tithe") mean in 3:10? a. (Deuteronomy 14:22) __________________ b. (Deuteronomy 14:28-29 & 26:12) __________________ 15. Malachi 3:10 mentions bringing all the tithes into the "storehouse." Which tithe was specifically commanded to be stored? (Deuteronomy 14:28) Circle the correct answer: THE YEARLY TITHE or THE 3rd-YEAR TITHE 16. What was promised to Israel if they gave the 3rd year? (Deuteronomy 26:12-15, Malachi 3:10-12) 17. Who was meant to benefit from the tithe in the 3rd year? (Deuteronomy 14:28-29, 26:12) 18. What was being done to those people in Malachi's time? (Malachi 3:5) 19. So what could "robbing God of tithes" mean? (See #17-18 and Matthew 25:42-45) 20. So why was Israel "under a curse" (or "cursed with a curse") in Malachi's time? (See #11-13 and #18-19) QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION Tithes provided firstly for the Levites who took care of the Temple and its offerings (the sacrifices)--all of which pointed to Jesus the coming Messiah. Now that the Messiah has come and fulfilled those offerings, is it possible to "rob" God of tithes and offerings anymore? Does Christian tithing include "all the tithes"? Do we "tithe" to the needy as the Law said to? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1941 Registered: 10-2002 |
(TITHING STUDY - WORKSHEET III) III.a - FULFILLMENT IN JESUS 21. What was the purpose of the Law? (Galatians 3:24-25) 22. What was the purpose of the offerings (sacrifices)? (see #13) 23. Who did the priests represent? (Hebrews 4:15, 9:11-15, 10:11-14) 24. When Christ came, what happened to the Law which necessitated priests & offerings? (Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 10:4, Ephesians 2:14-15) 25. Without priests and offerings, what remains for us to do from the Law? (Romans 13:8-10, James 1:27, 2:5, 2:8) 26. What happened to the curse of disobeying the Law which commanded tithing? (Galatians 3:13) III.b - THE NEW COVENANT 'PRIESTS' AND 'TEMPLE' 27. Who are "priests" in the New Covenant? (1 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 1:6, 5:10) 28. Who alone could approach God in the Old Covenant? (Numbers 3:10) 29. Who can approach God in the New Covenant? (Hebrews 10:19-22) 30. In the New Covenant: a. What is God's "building"? (1 Corinthians 3:9) b. What is God's "temple"? (1 Corinthians 3:16-17) c. What is the "temple" of God the Holy Spirit? (1 Corinthians 6:19) d. What is "God's house"? (Hebrews 3:6) 31. Where does God dwell now? Where can He be found? a. (Acts 7:48-50) __________________ b. (John 14:16-17, 14:23) __________________ c. (Ephesians 3:17) __________________ d. (John 4:20-24) __________________ e. (Matthew 18:20) __________________ f. (Luke 17:20-21) __________________ QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION According to Scripture, do "Levites" and "priests" represent church leaders today? [3] According to Scripture, does the "Temple" represent "the church building"? So are Christians "under a curse" if they do not give tithes to churches and pastors? Do we miss God's blessings if we do not tithe? (See Colossians 2:9-10 and Ephesians 1:3) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1942 Registered: 10-2002 |
(TITHING STUDY - WORKSHEET IV) IV - THE EARLY CHURCH 32. How did the early church run its finances? (Acts 2:44-47) 33. When money was given to the apostles, what did the apostles do with it? (Acts 4:35) 34. Could Christians keep their money if they wanted to? (Acts 5:4) Circle the correct answer: YES or NO 35. Was the early church blessed by giving this way? (Acts 4:32-35) Circle the correct answer: YES or NO 36. How did the early Christians "tithe" during the first 37 years of Christianity when the literal temple was still standing in Jerusalem, when literal Levites & priests were still taking care of it and offering sacrifices there, and when many Jewish Christians continued to zealously observe the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20)? Circle the most sensible answer: a. Early Christians gave 20% tithe -- 10% to the Levites and another 10% to the church b. Early Christians gave half and half tithes --5% to Levites and 5% to the church c. Early Christians (even Acts 21:20 ones) wholly abandoned Moses' Law and gave tithes only to the church d. Early Christians did not give any tithes to the church, but Jewish Christians may have continued to give tithes to the Levites, the priests and the poor. QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION Did you know that the Catholic Encyclopedia states that the early church did not tithe but gave freely instead, and that tithing became necessary later on to support the expanding institutions of the church? [4] Did you know that when the church later re-instituted tithe, it was only then that it began to include all sources of income instead of just the Law's prescription of crops and livestock? [5] Did you know that the earliest records of Christian "tithing" are from 567 and 585 A.D? [4] Was the early church "robbing God" and were they "cursed" because they did not tithe? Did God withhold overflowing blessings from the early church because they did not tithe? If the early church did not tithe, should Christians be required to tithe today? If the apostles did not need tithe to preach the word of God to the nations, why do we? | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 124 Registered: 7-2007  |
Thanks for sharing this, Ramone. I have printed out the first 3 worksheets and will be looking for the next 3. ~Nancy | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1943 Registered: 10-2002 |
(TITHING STUDY - WORKSHEET V) V.a - "GIVING" IN 2 CORINTHIANS 8-9 37. Who was the "gift" of money for in these chapters? (8:4, 8:14, 9:1, 9:9, 9:12) 38. Did Paul say that the money was for ministers, for the ministry of the word, for church building maintenance or even for the church's ministries? Circle answer: YES or NO 39. How often did it seem that this "gift" was collected? (8:10) 40. Is "tithe" or a required minimum percent of income mentioned? Circle answer: YES or NO 41. Was there a command to give this gift? (8:8, 9:7) Circle answer: YES or NO 42. Was there a curse if the gift was not given? Circle answer: YES or NO 43. The word "generously" or "bountifully" in 9:6 can literally be translated "blessing" (eulogia). Since this gift was given to help people in need (8:14, 9:12), could it be possible that the "reaping" in 9:6 refers to the people in need reaping blessings from the Corinthians' gift instead of the Corinthians getting back blessings for themselves? V.b - JESUS CHRIST'S TEACHING ABOUT "GIVING" 44. In His most direct teaching about "giving", who did Jesus talk about giving to? (Matthew 6:1-4) 45. What kinds of blessings did Jesus promise that we would "reap" because of our giving? (Mark 10:21) 46. Jesus promised to take care of us and meet our needs so that we could give to whom? (Luke 12:22-33) 47. Did Jesus teach that it's better to "have more" so that we can "give more"? (Luke 21:1-4) Circle answer: YES or NO 48. What is the context of Luke 6:38 about? (Luke 6:27-37) 49. In Acts 20:35, why did Jesus say that "it is more blessed to give than to receive"? (Luke 6:27-36, Romans 5:6-8) QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION If Christ and the apostles meant "giving to the needy" when they preached about "giving" and when they asked for donations, could God be upset that we've changed the meaning of "giving" today to mean "giving to church buildings and staff"? God loved the poor and needy so much that He commanded ancient Israel to give them tithes, and although the apostles did not collect "tithe" for themselves, every year they collected freewill donations for the needy and continually reminded one another to help the poor (Galatians 2:10). So who do you think God longs for us to give to more than anyone else? Doesn't that make you want to go and do likewise? (Message edited by agapetos on March 09, 2010) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1944 Registered: 10-2002 |
Typo correction for Worksheet II: #10. In Malachi 3:8, does "offerings" mean "voluntary gifts of money"? (see Leviticus 1-7) Circle answer: YES or NO (What did "offerings" mean? __________________) I typed this all up on a Japanese version of Microsoft Word, so as I post this up here I have to change a few puncutation things here or there. The quote marks on the "voluntary" part in #10 above came out as exclamation marks after I'd posted it. (However, it might look different or even ok on yours. Oh well... back to posting up the rest!) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1945 Registered: 10-2002 |
(TITHING STUDY - WORKSHEET VI) VI - DID ABRAHAM & JACOB TITHE? 50. Does Scripture say if Abraham ever gave 10% to Melchizadek more than once in his life? Circle answer: YES or NO 51. Did Abraham give Melchizadek 10% of his regular income? (Hebrews 7:14, Genesis 14:11-12, 15-20) Circle answer: YES or NO, it was 10% of _________________ 52. What did Abraham do with the other 90%?(Genesis 14:21-24) 53. In light of these things, does the story of Abraham support "Christian tithing"? Circle answer: YES or NO 54. Was Jacob commanded or asked to give God 10% of his earnings? (Genesis 28:20-22) Circle answer: YES or NO 55. Did God promise to give His blessings before or after Jacob promised to give 10% of his earnings to God? (Genesis 28:10-22) Circle answer: BEFORE ^ AFTER 56. What conditions did Jacob demand from God when he promised to give his 10%? (Genesis 28:20-22) 57. Do you think we should put conditions on God like that today? Circle answer: YES or NO 58. Jacob promised 10% to God, but who did Jacob give it to? 59. In light of these things, is the story of Jacob a good model for "Christian tithing"? Circle answer: YES or NO 60. Did the blessings of either Abraham or Jacob depend on their giving of "tenths"? Circle answer: YES ^ NO QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION Jacob promised his "tenth" immediately after God showed him a dream which pointed to Jesus Christ (John 1:51). The story of Abraham giving his "tenth" to Melchizadek was also ultimately used to point the Jewish people to Jesus Christ as our all-sufficient High Priest. Is it possible that God put tithing in the Law of Moses to remind Israel of Abraham & Jacob's "tenths" so that He could later point to His Son Jesus as the fulfillment of Melchizadek and the fulfillment of Jacob's dream and God's promises to him? The Law--including the law of tithing--came 430 years after Abraham according to Galatians 3:17. Just like the early church, both Abraham and Jacob were blessed simply because they believed in God and trusted in His promise to protect and prosper them. If they all were so abundantly blessed without a law of tithing, but only gave freely from the heart, could we also let go of tithing and yet find abundant blessings and provision? Is it possible that we don't trust God's grace alone to protect and prosper our churches and ministries? Is it possible that teaching/requiring the Old Covenant tithing law is hindering Christians' growth in living by the Spirit and learning to give from the heart? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1946 Registered: 10-2002 |
SOME FINAL QUESTIONS FOR FURTHER REFLECTION Can the gospel be financed just by grace, heart and Spirit alone--without the Law? Could we simply be afraid that we might lose some of our churches and ministries if we told people the truth about tithing not being required under the New Covenant? Is it possible that clinging to the Old Covenant law of tithing might actually be veiling our eyes to greater, more abundant blessings in the Spirit when Christians become released from the letter of the Law? Would it be unlike God to someday discipline churches the hard way? - so that we all could give freely from the heart alone instead of from under compulsion? - so that we all could know our blessing is secure in Christ's all-sufficient sacrifice alone? - so that the poor of the earth could "reap" from free and loving Christian hearts as God meant them to? Just as God challenged the people of Israel to "Test Me in this" when they were not obeying the commands of His Mosaic covenant with them, is it possible that today God is calling to us, challenging us to "Test Me in this" -- to test Him in letting people be free to give without compulsion, from grace and Spirit alone without the letter of the Law? Is it possible that God is challenging us to let the tithes and offerings of the Old Covenant be fulfilled completely in Jesus Christ, and to simply spend ourselves on behalf of the poor and needy instead? REFRENCES & NOTES [1] http://www.jewfaq.org/shul.htm, http://www.jewfaq.org/rabbi.htm, retrieved March 2, 2010 [2] http://www.myjewishlearning.com/israel/Jewish_Thought/Biblical_and_Rabbinic/In_the_Bible/Rights_and_Obligations/Tithing.shtml, retrieved February 26, 2010 Classical Rabbinical literature actually divides the different types of tithes into at least four categories: Maaser Rishon (the "first tithe" - yearly produce given to Levites), Teruma Gedola or Termat HaMaaser (the best 1% of the produce separated from Maaser Rishon, given to the priests), Maaser Sheni (the "second tithe" - taking 10% of produce to Jerusalem to consume there every year except the third year), Maaser Ani (the "poor tithe" in the third year). Orthodox Jews typically practice all the tithes, redeeming the produce from all of the tithes for money and discarding everything except for the poor tithe, which is usually given to charity. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org, retrieved March 9, 2010) Essentially the Rabbinical view seems to look at each major mention of "tithe" in the Mosaic Law as if each is a separate and specific tithe apart from the others. Yet after prayerfully looking at the Scriptures, I believe that primarily God intended two tithes -- one to the Levites and one to the poor. I base that view primarily on the recurring, overlapping themes and recipients in the tithe passages and on how often they were commanded to be given. However, in this study I have not focused on the obviously debatable number of tithes except to establish that (1) there was more than one tithe, (2) none of the tithes were primarily "money", and (3) that their primary purpose was to support the temple and the poor. [3] It should be noted that the general leader of the church was called an "elder" (presbyteros) in the New Testament, a position which already existed in Judaism separately from Levites and priests (compare the existence of Jewish elders distinct from priests in Mark 15:1 & Acts 23:14 with the position of Christian elders in Acts 14:23, Acts 15 and Acts 20:17). [4] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14741b.htm, retrieved March 2, 2010 [5] Encyclopedia Britannica 1963, volume 2, page 253, 'TITHES' | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 690 Registered: 8-2008 |
As far as I know, tithing was first introduced to Christianity by Augustine. But no one listened to his plea for tithing. In the Medieval era, the common rent received by the a landowner who leased his land to a farmer was 10% of the land's produce. The RCC had become a huge landowner, and was receiving these rents. To justify themselves, they invented the tithing concept after the fact. In other words, they were receiving 10% BEFORE they made a claim of a responsibility to tithe, and only invented the concept of Christian tithing AFTERWARDS to justify their greed. Thus, tithing entered Christian practice and has yet to be fully expunged. Some Christians argue that Pastors should receive tithe because they are the New Covenant Levites. There is no Biblical basis for saying a Pastor is a New Covenant Levite, since Hebrews 7 is clear that the Levitical order has been abolished by God and replaced by only one High Priest, Jesus Christ. The Levitical order were mediators. If a Pastor claims to be a New Covenant Levite, he is claiming to be a mediator between God and man and is thus blaspheming Jesus Christ, who alone is our mediator. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11023 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thank you for this study, Ramone. Good stuff! Colleen | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2006 |
Ramone, it's so good to have you back! Now after quickly scanning your study, I will print it out and follow along with notes. Thanks for the work you put into this. The implications are radical and even disturbing, but I think you are on the right track. Will God have to discipline us and de-institutionalize His church? Hang on to Him, everybody, things could get pretty rough. How about a Proclamation article? | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1487 Registered: 11-2007  |
Printing! Thanks!!! I'll keep an eye out for the facebook version and will pass it along! Definitely a sacred cow. I have heard synagogues charge dues - instead of tithe. It is not possible to pay a legal tithe at the moment, according to the Torah. Sondra (Message edited by 8thday on March 09, 2010) | ||
| Snewbie Registered user Username: Snewbie Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2010 |
I didnt see this being discussed. 1Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. My apologies if it was there. I'll give this a thorough look later. Nice work. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1110 Registered: 7-2004  |
Awesome study, Ramone! | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1947 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Snewbie, The text you brought up is not in the worksheet study at all. I thought of it, however, it's outside the scope of the study and the topic. I'll put it another way: basically it is next to impossible that the early Christians "tithed" to the church (See Worksheet IV). Whatever Paul meant in 1st Corinthians 9 simply could not have included "tithing" in any semblance or form, especially while the old temple was still standing. We have a Biblical record of Paul's actions and the way that the early church was "supported", survived and flourished... all without tithing (etc.). So when we look at 1st Corinthians 9, we need to look at the actions of the early church and ask God to help us see how the meaning of what Paul wrote was lived out back then. Generally we almost never do that today. Instead today we interpret 1st Corinthians 9 through the lens of our modern traditions (tithe, church buildings, institutions, paid clergy, etc.). We read Paul's words as if he was talking about an institutional support system that would not be invented until long after he died, probably at least a good 500 years later, according to early church records. There is definitely something valuable in what Paul said in the text you brought up from 1st Corinthians 9, however, we are going to miss it if we look at it as if it points to "Law" (tithing)... It's exactly the same as how Adventists would see any word such as "command" or "obedience" in the New Testament as if they were referring directly to the Ten Commandments. In fact, there is a wonderful freedom and beauty to learning to hear the Holy Spirit, respond to Him and obey Him. But you're not going to know the first thing of how wonderful that is if you think that whatever it means must ultimately lead to keeping the Ten Commandments. What Adventism (and Christian tithing) do is to attempt to make a sort of "shortcut" to the fruit of the Spirit. Step one is supposed to be letting go of the Law and being free in God's grace & Spirit. Later "steps" along the path will involve obedience and commands, however, as Adventists we thought we knew where God's path was "going" -- we thought it was headed towards the Ten Commandments. So we ran straight to steps 5, 6, and 7, etc. We skipped the first step. I'm not sure that I described that very well, so I'll tell you where I got that "steps" analogy--from a dream about eight years ago. In the dream an honest Adventist leader I respected took me to a hiking path to walk up, and I saw some orange signposts on the path like stages on the path. The numbers on the later signposts were readable, but the numbers on the first signpost or two were scratched up and could not be read. The scratchings were violent and looked frankly demonic in appearance. The meaning, I think, will be obvious to most Former Adventists. Even though as Adventists we thought we understood "grace" and that it was "free", we also thought that we knew the later "steps" that God would have us make -- obedience to the Ten C's, etc. We thought, "Yeah, grace, but we've got to do this and this after accepting it." But really, the first step (letting go of Law and resting in Him) changes everything. Everything! To put it another way, think of Eden. Yes, God said that mankind had to "work" in Eden. But they didn't need fires to keep them warm, nor did they need to "toil" at the soil because the ground did not resist mankind yet. Imagine you or I were suddenly whisked back to Eden and told to "work" with Adam. We would start trying to do the things that we knew "worked" out here, and Adam would do something totally different. At some points what we & Adam did might look similar, but the difference between our states of mind would be galaxies away. We have only known "work" in a world where we have to do it in order to survive, and where work is hard and difficult. Adam's life was a vacation compared to ours! The "works" in Eden would be very different from what we thought. In order to understand at all, we would have to leave our concept of "work" at the gates of Eden, enter by resting, by letting go of everything we thought we knew on how to "get results", and would have to learn from God all over again. It's often the exact same with the "prospering" and "support" of the church. We have been so used to "powering" the church by Law that we are babes in the matter of how to power the church by the Spirit and faith. In order to understand the glory of what Paul wrote in 1st Corinthians 9, we need to let go of the fading glory of the Law and ask God to show us what Paul meant in Christ instead, according to His light, according to the Spirit. And we can trust that as we do so, the glory will be more incredible and more lasting than the way that things worked in the "old". Gotta hit the sack! Bless you in Jesus! Ramone | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1502 Registered: 11-2007 |
When Jesus sent out his Apostles in Matthew 10 - he told them to not take anything with them, but to accept what they were given in terms of food/lodging. He uses the same words.. "the laborer deserves his food" In the customs of Middle Eastern hospitality (which are still alive today and so not alive here in the West) this refers to feeding and taking care of immediate needs - not supporting a certain standard of living, OR building a man's own kingdom. In the Corinthian letters Paul stresses the very sparse life of a true Apostle - and I believe what he is saying, even in chapter 9 here is referring to food directly. The Levites didn't even own land, but ate from the sacrifices brought to the temple. He is relating the current ministers of the gospel to this, saying they also had a right to be fed, but had not even taken advantage of that! I think the directives of Jesus in Matthew 10 were the guideline, not the tithing of the Torah, which required a temple/priesthood/sacrificial system. To use this verse to support tithing to me is a gross miss-application. I am not necessarily against paying a pastor - but to manipulate people into giving tithe for it is wrong. I recently heard a pastor from India who has been in ministry for 40 years. He has helped plant 50 churches. He said they resolved from the beginning to not ask for money and tell only God of their needs. He said they would test and see if God's promises were true even in India, one of the poorest countries. He testifies their needs have always been met for every need and every outreach. He said, "In order to follow what Christ taught about money, people must give secretly, cheerfully, and without unforgiveness in their hearts." For that reason they have a donation box at the BACK of the church... and a sign on it that says... "If your brother has something against you... go first be reconciled to your brother." This pastor has not taken a salary from his church, and even though he has written many books - the small amount he charges for them also goes back into the church. Anyone find a church like that over here?? :D Sondra (Message edited by 8thday on March 12, 2010) | ||
| Snewbie Registered user Username: Snewbie Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2010 |
Interesting. I wasnt really implying that a "tithing"(10%) was necessary, but that whatever way the levites where taken care of, there is a similar spiritual analog to that today for those who make it a full time duty to spread the gospel. Here's the question you gotta ask yourself(between you and God). Is the proffessional Christian(pastor, etc) that you are looking at worth his wages? Does he/she actually act as an ambassador of Christ? Do they spend their time preaching the gospel? Would the gospel be better served if they had to get a regualr job for a living? Let me take a moment to describe how I interpreted the whole thing while I was attending as an "almost been" at an independent SDA church. The church was independent and had 2 congregations. 1 Pastor and a few bible workers(full time)(1 at each congregation), the pastor went back and forth between congregations. The bible worker(elder) at our congregation is a good man. He preaches the SDA gospel(which I thought was the right one). He pulls over and helps people who are stuck on the side of the road. He gives help freely to anyone as a very good handiman, cars, plumbing, electrical, you name it. I believe Christ does want us to freely help other people, and that made him a great ambassador of Christ(if he had preached the right gospel). He did bible studies with anyone who would give him audience. If the people of the congregation didnt support him, he would have to get a regular job(auto mechanic, etc), and therefore would not have had time to help people freely. My wife and I never agreed with the tithe, but we did give him money because we thought at the time he was doing Gods work and we really wanted him to be successful. We didnt put a number on it. We just gave what we were moved to give. I believe the verse I quoted is the NT spirit of tithing and no discussion of the subject would be complete without it. | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 638 Registered: 11-2007 |
I have looked around adventist churches and cannot find the large box where we are supposed to bring the tithe of the firstfruits from our garden and orchards. They don't fit in the offering baskets with the rest of the tithe. Surfy |
