| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1185 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've been reading a book called "Muslim Mafia" that's just come out, about how Islam has been quietly infiltrating the United States. It would be a really alarming book to read for a non-Christian, but it's still sobering for a Christian to read. Adventists would be really blindsided by Islam if Muslims took over the world the way they REALLY want to; and since Adventists are waiting for a "Sunday law" to happen, thy just might go along with Islam in order to buy and sell, etc. while they're waiting. I don't know what the "mark of the beast" in Revelation 13 will be, but it could very well have a lot to do with Islam. Ellen White didn't say: "watch out for Islam. It will come up and appear to be a threat, but the Sunday law will come and make it disappear!" (Now I'm not saying that Islam WILL be one of the beasts of Revelation 13, but it's possible!) | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 763 Registered: 2-2008  |
How could an adventist see Muslims as a threat... after all, they don't eat pork either!! They're undefiled! ha! vivian | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7938 Registered: 3-2004  |
I read somewhere on the internet, just over the weekend, how sdas and muslims are meeting with each other. They are identifying common beliefs, like no pork and I forget which others. Apparently some muslims have been visited by "angels" and told that adventists are God's remnant church. I know who that is and it is not an angel of our awesome God, for sure. Here is the link: <http://www.adventistworld.org/issue.php?issue=2010-1002&page=11> Diana L (Message edited by Flyinglady on February 16, 2010) (Message edited by Flyinglady on February 16, 2010) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7939 Registered: 3-2004 |
I cannot get the link to work, so type it into your search engine and you will find it. It was written by the man Walter Martin spoke with on the John Ankerberg show. Diana L | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1186 Registered: 7-2007 |
Oh, I just saw the title of that when I got "Adventist World" in my box at the post office. When I get the magazine, I always open to the middle and tear it neatly down the back seam. Then I tear each half into two pieces and throw them all in the trash to try to keep anyone from reading it and getting decieved. This time I saw a title like that - I had forgotten. (I didn't read the article though. Now that I know that SDA is a false religion, I don't want to read their articles. It sounds like I SHOULD have read this one though - now I'm curious.) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10945 Registered: 12-2003  |
It's true--the article by William Johnsson is entitled Adventists and Muslims: Five Convictions--How to build on what we have in common. Johnsson tells of a Muslim sheikh having a vision about Seventh-day Adventists having the full teaching about the return of Jesus, and he contacted SDA leaders to ask for a meeting. Johnsson was selected to meet the sheikh. In the article he outlines what Muslims and Adventists have in common, explaining that these things pave the way for Adventists to better evangelize Muslims. In the last half of the article he says this:
I found the article astonishing...yet not surprising. In April, 2008, the Ohio Conference sponsored a convocation celebrating the 150th anniversary of the Great Controversy vision. Several Adventist luminaries spoke, including Jan Paulsen and Jon Paulien, now the dean of the School of Theology at LLU. Paulien's talk explained how the remnant will possess qualities that are characteristic of Christians, Jews, and Muslims. He quotes from the Koran and say that, in Koranic terms, the Great Controversy would be called "cosmic Jihad". I believe there is a move to help Adventist lay people to feel comfortable with Muslims and with collaborating with them or mingling with them. Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 536 Registered: 12-2007 |
He prefers to be known as an Adventist RATHER than as a CHRISTIAN ??????? the name Christian carries NEGATIVE associations ????? Now THAT is scarey ! Skeeter | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2009 |
I would highly recommend the book "God's War On Terror" by Walid Shoebat. He was a Muslim terrorist and converted to Christianity. Many of the chapters answer some of the Adventist arguments such as the roman Antichrist etc. Great book. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 986 Registered: 10-2008 |
What strikes me in the quote that Colleen posted above is this line, "These nine features uniquely position Adventists to establish relations with Muslims at all levels and to advance our divinely appointed mission of taking the gospel to the whole world." The Adventist gospel is an un-gospel. Not a gospel at all. Nowhere in the article does it define the gospel. The word "gospel" is a misnomer in Adventism and a "catch" for Christians. Evangelicals hear the word gospel and think - Jesus death and resurrection and the complete and full price of sin paid by the Son of God/Son of Man. Adventists use the word gospel - for making people converts to Adventistism. The Adventist "gospel" is a gospel of Satan carrying the sins of the believers (scapegoat doctrine). The Adventist gospel is a gospel of hell. And it makes sense that they will use the Adventist gospel to reach Muslims. This scripture text comes to mind when I think of the Adventist "gospel".
Someday God will pour out His wrath upon those who refuse to repent and come to Christ for forgiveness of sin. Keri | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1187 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've read many stories of people who were Muslims and then became Christians. In the ones who had a dream or a vision, those Muslims always saw JESUS, Who would tell them "FOLLOW ME." And then the person would wake up and he or she would KNOW that it was Jesus they'd seen and they'd immediately realize that Christianity was RIGHT! Here in this article "Adventists and Muslims: Five Convictions", Johnsson says, quote: "...a spiritual leader of many thousands of Muslims in several countries, a sheikh, stated that God had given him a vision about Adventists." He didn't say anything about Jesus giving him a vision to "Follow Me." Even Muslims believe that Jesus existed - as a prophet, but not as God. I've even heard that they believe that when their "12th Imam" comes, he will be accompanied by Jesus and that Jesus will be his deputy or something to help make the whole world to be Muslim. And it wasn't even that the sheik was first converted to Christ and THEN had that "vision," because it says that a "Muslim" who was "a spiritual leader of many thousands of Muslims" had that vision. Even Adventists would believe that a person has to become a Christian FIRST and then become an Adventist. Notice what the sheik said a little further down in the article. He had been given three visions about Adventists - all giving the same message. In his visions he was told, in part: "Adventists already are God’s people, so do not try to convert them. Instead, work with them." (I looked the article up online.) "Already ARE??!!!" That infers strongly that Muslims are ALSO "God's people." A "sister" religion? I wouldn't be surprised if Satan in the last days, brings together ALL the false religions under one "roof" - Islam, Roman Catholic, Mormon, SDA, J.Witness, etc. etc. etc. Cordurb: I've listened to some tapes by Walid Shoebat. Both he and his brother were Palestinian suicide bombers. His brother blew himself up if I remember right and Walid nearly got blown up planting a bomb. After the six day war, when the Muslims were going on and on over the media about how they had won the war, the family, including Walid were standing outside their Bethlehem home listening to the approach of tanks. As the tanks hove into view, to their shock they saw Israeli flags flying from them. The mother of the family started laughing. "What are you laughing about, woman?!" the dad demanded to know. It turned out that she knew something of the Bible and how Israel would return in the last days. She was one of those unfortunate women who travel with an Arab husband (she'd come from California) and then get stuck in a Middle Eastern country. (Women have nearly no rights in Muslims countries.) I don't know what prompted Walid to study the Bible, but when he did; he realized that he was on the wrong side and fighting against God! (Later after he was converted to Christ, he helped his mom get back to the States.  ) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2352 Registered: 8-2004  |
I just went and looked up Walid Shoebat. After glancing at his own website and at what Wikipedia has to say he strikes me as a 'John Todd' or 'Alberto Rivera' of Islam. Have any of you had personal contact with him or verified his story? I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it seems slightly dubious. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1188 Registered: 7-2007 |
If you believe that Joel Rosenberg (who has a weblog showing end-time headlines happening in the Middle East), is on the "up and up," then you can believe that Walid Shoebat is also. If you watch Joel Rosenberg's DVD "Epicenter," you'll see that Walid is one of the ones featured on it. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 992 Registered: 10-2008 |
Asurprise, Really resonated with what you wrote. Indeed, I have heard the same. Jesus is not bound by human form to give testimony to Himself. He even said that, "the rocks could cry out" in testimony of Him. It is only a privilege to watch the Holy Spirit at work drawing people to Jesus. I like to think of it as catching the newborn when we have the privilege of watching a Christian spiritual birth. We don't have any real part in the event except to "coach" the person on what is taking place . Then we have the fun of seeing the newborn. But we in no means create this new birth in Christ - just have the opportunity of witnessing and coaching when the birth pains begin. This gives me incredible hope for those still caught in the false religion and teachings of Adventism. The doctrines are wrong and the teachings are deplorable - but that doesn't stop God. At the FAF weekend - one of the faith stories was a man that accepted Jesus when he heard one of Mark Martin's last sermons as an SDA pastor - just before Mark came out of Adventism. God is not hampered or bound by false doctrines and false teachings and false religions. Yet, this does not mean we don't point out these false religions and false doctrines and false teachings. We are called to witness to the Truth, Who is Jesus. And the Biblical Jesus is not found in the doctrines and teachings of Adventism. Amazing that any of us are brought from death to life in Christ. Keri | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2353 Registered: 8-2004 |
Thanks for the info Asurprise. I don't know Joel Rosenberg either, but his name gives me another place to look. Thanks! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7944 Registered: 3-2004 |
The first winter I was at my church I met a former Muslin lady. She told me God appeared to her in a dream. That was how she converted to Christianity. Our awesome God approaches us right where we are. Diana L | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1879 Registered: 4-2000  |
Another factual, scary book that I highly recommend is entitled "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark A. Gabriel, Ph.D. Dr. Gabriel was able to quote the entire Quran by the time was twelve years old. Raised in Egypt--in the midst of a breeding ground of Islamic terrorists--he spent his formative years deep inside the confines of Muslim influence. His own family disowned him after he converted to Christianity and tried to kill him several times. He escaped his homeland and now resides in the United States. As a reflection of his new life in Christ, he chose a Christian name to replace his Muslim name. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2009 |
Walid is as real as it gets. He co authored with Joel Richardson. I have heard Joel speak a couple times and he wrote a great book called "Antichrist: islam's awaited messaih.". He also has a DVD series called Islam and the end times. You can find them @ joelstrumpet.com. He got so busy he stopped blogging. He shatters the European Antichrist theory IMO. Walid's mother was a Christian. I have seen him on shows like Jewish Voice and heard him on the radio. Many Muslims attempt to disparage him. He has constant death threats against him. One tidbit: lucifer is called the morningstar in the bible. Guess what the symbol of Islam is? Yep, the morningstar. His book is filled with these realities. | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2009 |
I have also spoken with Joel personally. These men's stories are real. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1106 Registered: 7-2004  |
Speaking of Lucifer being called the morning star, so is Jesus. See Revelation 22:16 and 2 Peter 1:19. Not sure why they would both be called that, but at least Lucifer was called "morning star" before sin was found in him rather than it being a current name. Morning star does seem to be a positive name every time it's mentioned in the Bible. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 716 Registered: 7-2000 |
Raven, calling Lucifer 'morning star' is wrong, it's a bad translation. The Masorete reads in Isa. 14, 'Hillel ben Shachar', which is Shining One, son of the morning. The Hebrew word 'Kowkalb' is star, and it's not in the text. And then, adding cross references to titles of Christ in 1 Peter and Rev. just adds to the confusion and error. The correct reading is in the KJV 'Lucifer, Son of the Morning'. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! And NOT: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! NIV. Notice how the modern translations have taken 'Lucifer' out as well? |
