| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3125 Registered: 10-2004  |
ROFLOL!!!  Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5884 Registered: 9-2006  |
That cooks it, I am staying out of caves forever!  | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 962 Registered: 10-2008 |
Good!!! No, spelunking for River. We need you too much!!! I'll let you know when Methusaleh's spirit heads to the great junk yard in the sky. Praying, God will keep him going a few more years - at least until his shoulder/door is completely rusted threw! (ha!) Dear old, soul. At least he has 4 fairly new orthepedic shoes (new wheels, two years ago). | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10843 Registered: 12-2003  |
My experience with self-pity is that it's related to avoiding reality. I know that "truth" and "reality" are related to being responsive to Jesus through His Spirit. The only way I can get out of my self-pitying modes is to choose to give up my "right" to feel I deserve something I think I'm not getting—i.e. respect, understanding, help, time, etc—and surrender my circumstances to God. I have to choose to ask Him to show me what is real and to hold me in truth. That is not a prayer I usually feel like praying, because I have reasons (often partly legitimate!) for feeling bad. But the Lord Jesus did not have the luxury of feeling sorry for Himself. He had to depend on His Father for everything...strength to continue to minister and to love others for the sake of God, even when He was emotionally battered and opposed. So, I have come to see self-pity as related to my personal sin of refusing to know and dwell in truth. What I perceive in my head is not reality. It's my emotional filtering of things, and I interpret them by my weakest personal flaw instead of objectively. Generally, none of us can really be objective. We have to submit ourselves to the Lord Jesus and allow Him to show us who we are in His sight. That is also a prayer I pray: "Please help me to see myself as you see me." Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5885 Registered: 9-2006 |
I don't guess I have been dealing in self pity, just to be truthful here. I was just shooting off my mouth. What it has been is terrific oppression constantly, and I have felt hurt and alone. I know where all this comes from, it has just been so heavy I couldn't fight for myself. But thank God, I have had a couple friends who have prayed for me, and I know the let up has been in answer to their prayer. One is on here, and she knows who she is. I am so thankful for Christians who can hear the Holy Spirit speak. Thank God the oppression has lifted, and I'm getting back to my old self, and I can reach out to others. Thats the worst thing, is when you know you are so stove up, you can't find it in you to reach out to others. I know I have not being dealing with sin, self pity, nor anything else, but attack from the devil. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7846 Registered: 3-2004  |
When I feel that self pity coming on, I get out my gratitude list and start saying it. That way I am focusing on Jesus and what He has done for me. Diana L | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1444 Registered: 11-2007  |
River, you make a good distinction.. and my comment was as I said.. strictly MY experience.. Wasn't implying anything about anyone else for sure. And I am so happy you are back in action! Being under the boot, in the cave, tied to a whippin post.. whatever.. ain't fun! Spiritual attacks are not a sin- obviously we cannot avoid them if we are in a war. What I have found (once again - ME - not implying anything toward anyone else) is that the enemy uses a half truth to attack me. If I take in the half-truth, and allow it to fester and I walk in doubt or self-pity because I have not walked in the full light of the truth (or as I said, believed I deserved better) in whatever situation - then to me it can become a sin. I have had a major epiphany this week about the half truth thing .. from the book of Ezra, if you can believe that. I was looking for a good NC definition of sin the other day and my husband said it good - "Whatever is not of faith is sin.." (I said to myself.. duh) So if I am allowing the enemy to shovel me over, there's a good chance I'm dancing with doubt instead. But thankfully our sins our washed away and God is SOOOO patient as we lie there writhing in agony, sometimes needlessly. We all do it - because we are not perfect warriors and the enemy knows how to find the chinks in our armor. (which is why we need EACH OTHER so much. Intercessory prayer is so important) My new pastor (yay) is doing a series right now on the armor.. and it's awesome. He says just because you are a warrior doesn't mean you are fighting well. ha. YEAH.. I got about 25 illustrations from my own life for his sermon. lol. Paul said.. "having done all.. to stand" That's a good goal.. just simply standing. Love ya'll! Sondra (Message edited by 8thday on January 19, 2010) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10844 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree--spiritual attacks are inevitable and are not sin. I didn't mean to imply you were wallowing in self-pity, River! I was just picking up on the self-pity idea. I've often thought of that, too, Sondra...that the point of the armor is for us to be able to STAND. The only piece of armor in that list that is offensive is the sword of the Spirit. The rest of the armor is defensive. Interesting! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5886 Registered: 9-2006 |
I didn't take any of this conversation as anybody implying anything. Caramba! I know nobody on here is out to slam anybody else. Everybody has a thought, a song, a prayer, and we all learn and are benefited and blessed of each other. My first thought is that we love one another as was Jesus desire, I don't see anything else outside that happening here. My problem, when these attacks do come to such severity, is that I start out standing, then as time goes on I end up a bloody pulp, in spite of initial confirmation from the Holy Spirit that I have spoken under his anointing. That scripture just came to me the other day too, having done all to stand, then stand. I know what's happening, its just that at times, I am helpess to prevent it. If someone could speak about the armor in a practical every day language where the rubber meets the road, I might get the picture. I know what scripture says about this, I just don't know how to put in in practical use under these heavy oppressing attacks. You're right Colleen, the rest of the armor is defensive. Sondra, I believe you are right, Jesus atoned for us, even when we are laying there writhing in agony, even when we have failed to understand what's going on or how to protect ourselves, even when we fail period. We need to know, in a practical way, how to stand. The sword, I know how to wield. Putting on the whole armor of God is not just repeating Pauls words in rote. Is there anybody on this forum that don't get beat up from time to time? If you say, "yeah me." I'm probably going to think the reason is, you're sitting safe in the rear with the gear. I know there is an answer, I just can't seem to penetrate to the root of the problem. The thought just entered my mind of some more words of Paul, something about his worry that after having ministered to others, he fail himself? What is Paul talking about in 1 Cor. 9:27? River | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 963 Registered: 10-2008 |
River, I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but it was something someone shared with me. As I mentioned above I do have pity parties and for me they usually coincide with real spiritual oppression. I end up so stuck I can barely move. A friend gently told me a month or two ago, ... Keri, it might be helpful to call on a friend before you get to the point that you can barely move. I felt a little foolish and said, What am I supposed to say ... Pray for me because _____. She said, Just ask us to pray, you don't have to go into detail. The next time I was headed to the cave for a good long stay, I texted two different people and emailed a third asking for prayer. I didn't get nearly as far in the cave as I had previously - or nearly as "bloodied up". My Christian friend basically said, "Don't wait so long before you ask for help." Anyways, .... Keri | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 964 Registered: 10-2008 |
P.S. River, another way to say what I'm trying to say is, "you need to ask for prayer when you 'start out standing'". Sondra, wow ... really enjoyed your post. Half-truths or "possibilities" are what can get to me, too. You nailed some things for me. Thanks. Keri | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5891 Registered: 9-2006 |
Keri, Thanks, I get that, reminds me of the time when I used to get real bad migraine headaches, the doctor said when I first detected the symptoms, to get in the shower and run water over my head, neck and shoulders as hot as I could stand it, and begin taking medicine. It makes sense. It isn't the cure, but it helps. I'm willing to do what helps. Now tell me, did it help you? | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 966 Registered: 10-2008 |
Yep, it did help. I can't say it takes the pain all away and things are "hunky-dory" , but the intensity of the pain is less and the "darkness" is short-circuited and doesn't last as long. Much like your example of what the doctor said about migraines. Keri | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 251 Registered: 5-2009 |
What a great discussion--thank you everyone for the wisdom you have shared. Bb, some of the things you said really hit home! River, since we don't actually run around today wearing armor sometimes it's hard to make what Paul says real for us today...I mean, we all know what armor is, but we've never actually experienced wearing it in war! With your gift of writing, maybe you could come up with a modern day equivalent that would make it more real--bullet-proof vests maybe? Keri--really appreciate your posts. I have SO much to learn (and un-learn). | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5897 Registered: 9-2006 |
NowIsee, and anybody else that is interested in this, I am really trying to determine why I end up the way I do under these attacks. Now I know the Bible is true, but there are spiritual concepts are hard to lay hold on, and be able to put into practical application in our lives that will help us. One such spiritual concept is the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the reason for that is, if you haven’t experienced it, you don’t know what it is like or what to look for, nor even know how to seek for it. Jesus taught spiritual concepts by using everyday examples that the people were familiar with. I could tell you all day how great the baptism in the Holy Spirit is, yet without having any concept of its practical application, a person just cannot know what I am talking about. One person said in the scripture that Paul said many things hard to grasp, or something to that effect. The Bible is spiritual in nature, and must be spiritually discerned. Now that’s what the Bible says, isn’t it? And Jesus plainly said that those who worship God, must worship him in spirit, and in truth. Notice the ‘and in truth’. Now lets look at the actual scripture I refer too. John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Colleen said something about the armor that really got my attention, she said something like this, ‘If we can’t get the truth part down, we can’t very well proceed with the rest of the armor’ She said, and I quote: The belt of truth is first, and it's worn around our mid-body, As I understand it, accepting TRUTH is the first step in a life lived for God. None of the rest of the armor even applies if we have rejected or resisted truth. Truth goes to our core and puts us in a different "reality". I agree with her, the belt of truth must come first. What is see is that about 90 % of the formers I know, do want the truth, so that doesn’t seem to be a problem, they are humble, and very careful to try to find truth, so they, and I, know that truth is the first order of business. But if we cannot grasp these spiritual truths, then how can they help us? If we cannot grasp them, then we cannot put them to practical use. As NowIsee says, we don’t go around wearing armor these days. I don’t think another description of the armor will help us much. If I re-arranged Jesus words to Arky language, I would say. “Boys, you’re dull! Somebody just dropped you off a turnip truck on your head!” And that means me. Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. But when we do get it we say, Ah ha! Isn’t that so? Well, I would like to get an Ah ha! Because I am getting darned tired of getting beat up all the time. Is anybody with me on that, or do you like lumps on your noggin? I start off well, but end up laying on the ground wondering what hit me? In looking at this problem of grasping the spiritual concepts Paul is trying to feed us, I think we get tripped up on two little words, and that is ‘put on’. I think it goes deeper than our concept of ‘put on’. So here we are in this day and time trying to ‘put on’ this armor that Paul is talking about. In the old Testament we find David out there affixing to take on a man about three times his size, and they say, ‘Here David, wear this!.” Armour is what they hand him, most likely what Paul describes, or something close. David klunks around in that thing a little bit, and decides he can’t hardly walk in this stuff, so he says, just gimme my slingshot and I’ll take this sucker! (My Arky version) So I am thinking about this problem of me trying to put on armor, and ending up looking like a dead Amadillo in the road, with all four feet sticking up. But as I am thinking about this problem, I believe it was the Lord bringing David to my mind, and I am sitting here wondering what he wants me to see. You see David couldn’t fight in armor that didn’t fit, his slingshot was a part of him, an extension of him, it was something he grew up with, out there herding sheep he had plenty of practice with his slingshot. Too try and explain the concept I have to go back to examples in nature. There is a crab that walks around on the bottom of the ocean looking for discarded shells. He finds one an wriggle inside it and sits looking out, hoping he will fool his enemies into thinking he is a clam I guess, anyhow the hermit crab came to mind. Its not his shell, he just puts it on, hoping it will do the trick. Now lets take the turtle, or the Terrapin, what is sometimes called the desert tortoise. I have examined many a Terrapin as a child, I would look inside his shell at the membranes that connected him to his shell, the Terrapin was the shell, and the shell was the Terrapin. Like David with his slingshot, his slingshot was an extension of his arm, he grew up with it, the Terrapin grows his shell as he takes in nourishment, very unlike the Hermit Crab, who goes about seeking armor that does not belong to him, the crab just ‘puts it on’ and wears it around. So…I tried to re-arrange Pauls words, ‘put on’. ‘Take on’ seems to come close, but not quite there yet. ‘Take in’ seems to fit even more closely to the concept I am trying to understand. We need to become like the Terrapin, like David and his slingshot, the armor needs to become a part of us, and I think we can become a formidable force when we are attacked by the forces of oppression, accusation, and opposition. These are the wiles of the Devil, who seeks to take our peace from us and strip us of our armor, tie us to a post and give us forty lashes plus one. He does this because he hates God. Now I have known for quite some time, that he has no rights whatsoever to do this, and I am ready to get a clue. I am tired of getting beat up out there. One guy I was listening too trying to teach about spiritual warfare said “We can’t become overly spiritual”, then he went on to try to teach about spiritual warfare, and I am sitting there saying, “You just contradicted yourself egghead!” I stopped listening to him when he said that. Now why should I sit and learn from a jawbone who don’t know Holy Ghost from a toothpick, I ask ya! Gee whiz, some of these lum oxes get me steered up! I don’t know how you can become overly spiritual when the whole war is fought in the spiritual realm. You try to fight with just mental assent, and the Devil will just laugh you to derision, you won’t make a wart on a soldiers butt, he won’t oppose you cause you ain’t no threat, but I’ll gar-on-tee you, when you start spiritualizing he will come against you with some opposition, accusation, and oppression. Some times I feel kind of like I am embarrassing myself because I use the word spiritual an awful lot of the time, probably because the old accuser says “Lookit you, there you go again. Using that word, and what will they (whoever they is) think of you? Well…Why should I be ashamed of that word, who used it most? It comes down to where the rubber meets the road, the spiritual realm is a lot more real to me than the physical realm. Its where I live. This world and its politics hardly even faze me any more. Now I’m just tired of ending up like a dead possum what got runned over by my four by four. Its not that I don’t know that the Lord will rescue me, I know the minute that I come under attack that help is on its way. I ain’t under no threat of being done in, just beat up on. After this last go round, I don’t know about you all, but I am lookin’ for some payback, I am whoppin’ mad at the Devil! River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5898 Registered: 9-2006 |
An I ain't a gonna take it any more! | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2007 |
“That is also a prayer I pray: "Please help me to see myself as you see me." Colleen” ‘I am lost!’ How appalling! It’s quite depressing to contemplate God’s ability to see my utter depravity. ‘I am saved!’ BUT then I remember that God, by His grace, has chosen instead to see Christ’s Righteousness in me. Praise God John | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2326 Registered: 8-2004  |
Thanks River! | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1446 Registered: 11-2007 |
I'm with you River.. would like to clear, solid, practical "how to" with that armor stuff. I am also tired of getting whacked down and seeing many of my friends in that condition. Keri - what you said about prayer - I have found that asking for prayer early is VERY helpful for me too! A few months ago on facebook, the husband of one of my old friends popped up on chat, using her account. We had known them for a brief time because they traveled with their work. He was a welder that helped build power plants but is now retired with COPD. In the time we were neighbors I never had a conversation with this man - not once. He was quiet and withdrawn. His wife and I became very close and stayed in touch. So.. thought it VERY odd he was talking to me online. He was talking about God and how Sally (my friend) was working with the kids at church. I am thinking this guy has really changed alot! Then out of the blue, and totally not connected to our conversation he says..."You need the armor of God. God said "put it on" not "here it is let me dress you with it." I sat there stunned and didn't know how to respond. The conversation ended shortly after that, and later that day I sensed the Holy Spirit drawing me to that whole bizarre conversation and realized it was from God, and He wanted me to hear that. Now.. I am still trying to figure it out, and River - your post reminded me of it. I think it's time to get it nailed down. The only thing I got from that was that this is not a passive activity - but one that requires our focused attention. So.. not much help. But there it is. Sondra | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1960 Registered: 5-2007  |
Sondra, Here is what I see:
While there certainly is "action" on our part, what I see is the armor is God's strength and might. Apparently we can choose to wear or not wear God’s armor. But, the armor is all about God and his power. This is another example of why not to take one sentence out of context and not consider the setting. Fearless Phil |
