| Author | Message | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2009 |
Well said. You are right. She does not want to see this but is held tightly by what she was raised in. | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2009 |
Dianne, very well said. I am having a conversation by mail with one of my sisters. I am using some of your points you made in your post in my correspondence with her. Cordurb, I am praying for your wife that the Holy Spirit will lift the veil and give her understanding. I know that with her and with my sister, the Holy Spirit is the only one who can get through to them. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 239 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you, Dianne, for printing that letter--it is an excellent overview and is really helpful. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1136 Registered: 7-2007 |
Believer and Nowisee; I'm glad that you could use what I wrote, although I cannot take the credit. I asked the Lord to help me say the right things. If it wasn't for Him, I'd still be an Adventist too! Yikes! | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 750 Registered: 2-2008  |
Cordurb, I agree with Keri... I see that the core of the problem is that even though your wife believes in the "merit of Christ" ... SHE is still "responsible". I had a long passionate discussion with my cousin's husband over Thanksgiving. He believes the same thing your wife does. I am finally getting around to writing to him... let me know what you think:
This belief about being "responsible" or "held accountable" is all part of the "lying spirit" of their theology. Why don't they just drive another nail into Jesus? sad... how they persecute Jesus, belittle and demean Him by their belief and they can't see that. vivian | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 204 Registered: 2-2008 |
Vivian, I like your presentation. Chris | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7836 Registered: 3-2004  |
Vivian, I like your presentation also. Diana L | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 751 Registered: 2-2008 |
... I just realized how I need to finish my note. I need to end it with "my" version of the vision. That I see that a group of people are on the path to Jesus, but that their path is lit up by the truth of His grace, His mercy... that He died to save sinners such as me. vivian | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1138 Registered: 7-2007 |
Vivian, I like your letter too. In my case, when I was an SDA, I first had to see that the SDA church was wrong before I could see anything else. When I was an SDA, I loved it when the pastor gave a sermon filled with the message of "saved-by-grace." Whether he said it or not though, I always added a little "but..." to it. I could never believe I currently HAD salvation - or at least when I did convince myself of that; it was short lived. A few minutes later I couldn't be certain of my salvation. That's something ALL the false religions have in common. The Roman Catholic says: "if I confess this to the priest, then..." A Muslim says: "if my good deeds OUTWEIGH my bad ones (of if I die blowing up an infidel), then maybe..." (they can never be certain if their good deeds REALLY outweigh their bad ones. The Bible - in Isaiah - says that people's GOOD deeds are filthy rags. ) An Adventist says: "if I make it through the investigative judgment and if I am making progress and if I ask God to forgive all my sins, then maybe..." Only in real Christianity is there real assurance. Only in real Christianity has the whole atonement been DONE! Jesus said, "it is finished," but all the false religions ignore that. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 752 Registered: 2-2008 |
Asurprise... I will definitely add that "the whole atonement is done". I'm curious to know what the first thing you saw in Adventism that was wrong. vivian | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10839 Registered: 12-2003  |
Vivian, that is good. I'm really struck by your pointing out the reality of that vision: they need higher, or special, knowledge in order to stay on the path, and rejecting that special knowledge is what spells their doom. I have never seen so clearly how Ellen's vision itself demonstrated that reality. They argue every which way, today, to say Jesus is all they need. But, as you point out to your husband's cousin, that's just words. The undercurrent is the "special knowledge" of Sabbath. Jesus is enough--unless we give up the Sabbath. Colleen | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 245 Registered: 5-2009 |
And, re the vision, walking up a path to Jesus is so different (works oriented just like our 'steps to Christ') from what He actually did to save us--He came down (underline) to rescue us! We didn't trudge up to Him. Didn't hike up a path that we are in danger of falling from or trudging up a staircase of many steps to reach Him. Good news!!!! (I'm a terrible hiker and would have never made it anyway, so I am grateful to Him that He came down to get me...) | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 621 Registered: 7-2004 |
Vivian, I LOVE the letter! Every time I see someone cut through the baloney to get to the real heart of the matter, it is so refreshing! I am anxious to see the "rest of the story" if you will share the ending with us.  | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5873 Registered: 9-2006  |
The Adventist mindset, and the former Adventist mindset is a strange thing to behold for me as a never been. The Adventist, in refusing to recognize we have a spirit, tries to communicate with God through human intellect, or believing that with our minds we can communicate with God. Never recognizing that we have a spirit, and that spirit has a language, and can communicate with Spirit. So…in the Adventist mindset, intellect has become a God. Many of the former groups, having been raised in this same volatile mindset, while learning many new truths, but attempts to use those same methods learned in Adventism, to transfer this same set of methods over into new set of dogmas. This is described in first Corinthians Chapter one, and also in chapter two for starters, not to mention James 2:26, Romans 11:33. This is an amazing thing to watch. It’s kind of like watching a train wreck. So, without the animating presence and the revelatory power of the Spirit it is nearly useless to them, and in some cases I’ve seen puts themselves in danger of offending the Holy Spirit in a bad way, and I would not want to be in that persons shoes. So the Adventist lives off Adventism, which in my honest opinion is like living off eating grub worms, and the former Adventist chases book after book after book, always learning, and never coming to the knowledge of the truth, that intellect too, must bow the knee before almighty God. Just sayin’…if every single thing is cast at the feet of Jesus, he will bless us, and reach down and set us up on our spiritual feet. How is that for cutting through the baloney Bb? Now pardon me, while I go back to my cave, pull the lid in over me, and feel sorry for myself that everybody’s after me. Then after some days of sitting in the dark by myself cringing, and the Lord says to me, “River, what are you doing in there?” And my only answer is, “I was afraid of these people, and I hid myself in this cave.” Pitiful is what it is. River | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 753 Registered: 2-2008 |
love that River... in recognizing Jesus as my Savior, I have to lay down even my knowledge. It isn't knowledge that saves me. However, that is how Adventism defines a "Christian". They define a "true" believer by the "truths" they know, the "truths" they keep and the "truths" they worship... rather than defining a Christian as someone who submits and casts everything at the feet of Christ. When we humble ourselves and realize it's not about the "truths" we keep, follow, or worship... that's when we get out of the boat and walk on water to follow Christ. ... now git out of your cave! vivian | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1854 Registered: 4-2000  |
Dr. Ronald L. Numbers on EGW and Adventism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dllCL4786E Dennis Fischer | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1140 Registered: 7-2007 |
Vivian, the first thing was just a little thing that didn't by itself show me that Adventism was wrong. It just made me willing to look into it further and see if perhaps Adventism was wrong. It was a friend pointing out some things about "Michael the archangel." The verse that I remember having the most impact about that was Daniel 10:13 "...and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me..." "one of the chief princes?!" That didn't sound like God! The thing that really showed me that Ellen White was a false prophet was her contradicting the Bible by saying that Jesus waited until 1844 to go into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. (See her book "Early Writings," chapter "The Open and the Shut Door" in that long first paragraph. "...This door [into the most holy place] was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844...") Hebrews 6:19,20 very clearly says that Jesus went ALREADY into the most holy place. (And Hebrews 9:12, 25 and Hebrews 10:12) This proved only to me that Ellen White was a false prophet. I still thought that the SDA church was the one true church. It wasn't until I found that Jesus had brought in a WHOLE new covenant - Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15-17, and found out what the old covenant was - Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 5, that I realized that the entire church was a false church! Dianne | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1954 Registered: 5-2007  |
Well, I took the time to watch this video. Mr. Numbers appears, to me at least, to be riding the fence between being pro and con on Ellen White and what SDAs teach. At least, in this video you couldn't really tell if he supported the Adventist views he was relating. I object to his view that Adventist were, for the most part, alone in a literal interpratation of the six-day creation account up intil Henry Morris came along. This view gives Adventist's more credit than they deserve. Fearless Phil | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7837 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have said in the past and will say again, that God used my 12 step program to get rid of the SDA cobwebs in my brain so that when God called/led me out of adventism I had no problem following Him. Then when I joined the forum, I found that what God had taught me while reading the Bible only was what other formers had learned. That is we are saved by Jesus Christ and His blood, by faith alone and no works of our own. Finally when God told me to go to the church I now attend I learned that what it teaches is what God taught me through reading the NT from Jan - May 2004. Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 754 Registered: 2-2008 |
Thx Dianne~ I'm always interested in what causes that first little chink in our armor. I watched that video too... I also couldn't tell if he supports EGW or not. vivian |
