| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10713 Registered: 12-2003  |
I just received the following email. I'm copying it below just as it is, grammar issues and all. I'd love to have you share your reactions:
There are so many things I could say...but I can't pass over this person's rationalization of his/her "besetting sins" and how they are the sorts of sins God's people commit. Worldly sins are those that hurt others. I just want to mention that fornication certainly hurts others...it's not a sin done in isolation. Reactions? The veil of 2 Corinthians 3 is thick and intractable apart from turning to Jesus and allowing Him to remove it. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7776 Registered: 3-2004  |
WOW!!! Is this person confused!!! So many things to say about this person. Does not know Jesus and that once she/he accepts and loves him, her/his sins are covered with His blood. As you said, the veil is so thick. Only God can remove it. And He will if this person will let him. It sounds to me like He has been trying to get through. This person is so brain washed. I could say more but it is late. Awesome God, I ask You to keep working on this person. Diana L | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 607 Registered: 7-2004 |
So maybe he/she is rationalizing that the sins that he/she personally struggles with are "normal" sins that one struggles with. I guess if you are an adventist believer you don't struggle with lying, cheating or bad-mouthing!! Only the worldly struggle with those! Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! What rationalization and double speak!!! Then, there's the UNpardonable sin of rejecting the "sanctuary message". You can actually UNDO the UNpardonable sin by asking for pardon and "embrace the truth" once again. Doesn't even make sense!! You are in the abyss, but with faith in Ellen again, God will actually lift you up and put you back on the path! Sad, sad letter. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 639 Registered: 8-2008 |
Thanking God for guilt shows that this person has no idea why Jesus died. Jesus died to set us free from guilt and shame.
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| Ardyj Registered user Username: Ardyj Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2006  |
A feeling of profound, deep sadness as I read that, Colleen. Total deception, if they really truly believe as they say they do. So very sad. Ardyj | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1111 Registered: 7-2007 |
Oh, what a poor mixed up person. But so was I, until God set me free! If only this person would prayerfully read the New Testament without the veil of Ellen White. If that person would truly, sincerely ask God to show them the truth, He will. If a person reads the New Testament with the Adventist/Ellen White mindset, they may have to read quickly/skip over a few verses because those verses "don't make sense," but otherwise the veil will remain firmly in place. And speaking of the New Testament, does this person REALLY understand what "New Testament" means??? Does this person understand that "New Testament" means "New Covenant"?? Hebrews 9:15-17 says that Jesus "is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death" and that "where there is a testament, there must also be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." Doesn't this person realize that the previous covenant is obsolete? (Hebrews 8:13) Does this poor writer (and in case he/she is reading this - I'm not "bashing" you. I'm hoping that you will realize that you're mixing the covenants - taking part of one and part of the other - and making the blood of Jesus of none effect in your behalf) does he/she realize that the previous covenant given at Sinai started 430 years after Abraham and was to go until the Seed (Christ) should come? Galatians 3:17-19 And what was the old covenant? Here Moses is talking to Israel in Deuteronomy 4:13: "So He declared to you His covenant which he commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." And again in Deuteronomy 5:2,3 (read the whole chapter) "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive." Yes, nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the new covenant (New Testament), but they are greatly expanded on, if he/she will notice what Jesus said about them in the gospels. We aren't saved by "keeping" them though. We now "walk in the Spirit" Galatians 5:16 because the Holy Spirit is the One Who does all the work. We aren't saved by what the Holy Spirit does though. We're saved when we "believe in Jesus" John 6:29, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, Ephesians 1:13,14 You see, (speaking to the writer of the email) I wasn't saved when I was an Adventist, because I couldn't really believe that a person could be saved by believing in Jesus. Ellen White said that no one should say or feel they are saved - contradicting Ephesians 2:8,9. I felt I had to "keep the Sabbath" "keep repenting" "keep striving for perfection" etc. I couldn't believe that I actually could believe I WAS saved. Therefore I couldn't really accept Jesus' sacrifice for me. No one in a false religion can! This person said that the doctrines "have been established through arduous Bible studies by the pioneers." Doesn't this person realize that ALL the people in "religions" believe that about their religion? (By "religion" I mean man's efforts to be right with God - which all religion has in common. A RELATIONSHIP with God, by contrast, is what REAL Christianity is.) A Mormon believes that their pioneers established the "truth" of their doctrines. A Roman Catholic believes that the priests interpret the Bible correctly for them, and believe utterly that Peter was the first pope. No amount of pointing out that their religion has idols and is a mixture of Christianity and paganism won't work if they don't sincerely want to know the truth. Muslims believe Mohamed and their leaders - also they are mandated to kill those who leave the "faith" so that's an added incentive to stay. Many of the Jewish people believe their rabbis and they reason: "wouldn't our rabbis have believed if this were so?" (Not to mention that so-called "Christians" who weren't Christians at all; persecuted them.) And they close their eyes and ears to all possibility that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel. J-Witnesses have their "watchtower" which is their pioneers who established that their religion is the "One True Church" also. All these blind blind people who refuse to really ask God to reveal Himself to them and show them what's REALLY true!! It's so sad.  This person needs to read 1 Cor. 6:15-19 as well. Paul makes it clear that fornication is REALLY bad. It sounds like he's even saying that it's WORSE than other sins because if a believer "who is joined to a harlot", is joining the harlot to Christ. | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 313 Registered: 4-2005 |
This person needs to ask why the frustration, if I have the truth I should have peace maybe I don't understand the Bible, and then pray that the Holy Spirit will lead him to all truth--cleanse his mind of what he has learned, open it to where the Holy Spirit leads him and not let all the past teaching influence him. Let God lead him into all truth--you can't serve two masters, and he is depending on himself to eliminate the sin in his life-I Jn I:9 If we confess our sins He will forgive-- The agonizing thing is to realize that you may be wrong about the beliefs you have held dear and really want to learn what God wants you to know. He must have some doubts, or he wouldn't have written this letter--maybe the simplest thing is to pray that God will lead him to truth. God will answer a fervent pray like that. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 317 Registered: 4-2007 |
Not surprised, just articulating what many Adventists are experiencing: ignoring God’s promise to change them internally (Of course, that promise was given only to believers……..?) but instead futilely attempt to change themselves externally so they LOOK almost like a real Christian. In order to carry this off they rationalize that some sins really aren’t sins at all, like not really ‘keeping’ the Sabbath (God sees my good intentions). They lower the bar by redefining the Law into something they can claim to keep all the while knowing they are not capable of living up to God’s righteous standard, thus the guilt. How sad they refuse to accept what God has revealed through Paul in Romans. Of course, Ellen will always trump Paul (and God). John Douglas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10715 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, all. I'd welcome all the responses you wish to post...when I received this letter last night, I was just too tired to think through much less articulate a response. The lack of understanding that we have intrinsically dead spirits that need to be reborn and made alive with the resurrection life of Jesus—that we are changed literally by having God's own Spirit give us a new identity internally--not merely giving us external power to resist sin...this lack of understanding is overwhelming. Yes, John—the bottom line truth for them is that Ellen always trumps Paul. Adventism would implode if they really believed Paul. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5779 Registered: 9-2006  |
for my response, see my post number 5778 under 'Hatred for the... What I said about the reading of Moses is so pertinent here. During the Civil War as a battle across an open field raged, men cowered behind tree's and bushes in fear of the volleys of exploding cannon fire. Said a general to a young man, as he sat his horse in the open, "Son, there is no safe place here." That person seeks a safe place among her friends and family and Adventist doctrine, but there is no safe place there. As the story of the Ark typifies, as the water rose beyond the reach of the highest crag, the Ark rose above the storm, and the Lord shut them in. There is no safe place outside the Ark of the blood of Jesus, none whatsoever. In Matthew 24:38 "For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, Matthew 24:39 "and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. The Adventist can read Moses until he is swept away in the flood of disease and death that has a hold on this earth, but there is no safe place there, and they will not know until they are swept away by age, accident or disease. But there is no safe place there. River | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2291 Registered: 8-2004  |
 Yes, thank you River, for reminding us that the the place of safety, the "Ark" (this term has been used in SDAism to refer to both 'the church' and 'the message'), is Jesus Christ. It is only through His blood that we can have security. . . and what safety! "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" Romans 31, 32 | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 899 Registered: 10-2008 |
I read through the letter a few days ago and have been thinking about it ever since. Did not get home until recently to type a response on a computer. I would have had to type on my cell phone and that is arduous. My initial gut reaction - was a feeling that there is more below the surface of the words in this letter. In the beginning of the letter they say they have been so discouraged "that I've been tempted many times to just give up". That statement gave a glimpse into the heart of this person. At some level they realize they are doomed. Yet, they cling to Adventism. And then they state in their letter, "He that endures to the end shall be saved." Therefore, they have a misunderstanding of salvation (which we all pretty much got). My response if I were to write a letter to this person: Dear ______: Thank you for your letter and the time you took to write it. I was struck by the pain that lies underneath your words. You have been struggling to "endure to the end" and many times have thought of giving up ("whats the use"), yet, you keep coming back to Adventism. You also mention that you "don't believe that i will continue sinning until Jesus comes". My fear for you is that your understanding is based on what you have been taught and not from the Bible directly. Please look at these clear scriptures: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8, NIV Friend, the above text was written long after Christ's death and resurrection. If you believe that you will someday overcome and stop sinning you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. Ellen White is the one you are quoting, not scripture. Unfortunately, she disagrees with scripture in many, many instances. Secondly, "Jesus anwered, 'I am the say and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6, NIV) Friend, if you believe that you will be saved by something other than Jesus you are deceiving yourself. You write and I quote, "He that endures to the end shall be saved." If you believe that what you do and how tightly you hang on to Adventist doctrines will save you - you will be lost. Salvation is not about endurance. Look carefully to what scripture says, "Then they asked him, 'what must we do to do the works God requires? Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28,29) There is only one thing that is required of salvation: To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 John 5:11-13) So my question to you is this ... what "truth" will you believe? Will you believe the "truth" as you have been taught that is not founded in scripture or will you put your faith in "Truth" Who is Jesus Christ. Friend if you believe you can make it without sinning - you deceive yourself and will continually be frustrated and in agony. Come to Christ who was sinless and paid the debt you owe for your "sins". You are dead in your transgressions and only in Christ can you find life. Sincerely, The initial post has been bugging me for some time ... and I had to respond. Keri | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 969 Registered: 7-2005  |
This letter could have been written by a friend who attends hubby's SDA church. This person (my SDA friend) has a heart of gold, but has a bit of a communication impediment in that he does get somewhat confused. But he is so motivated to keep talking (writing) to just make sure he is heard (read). It is a real challenge to try and hold a conversation with him, either spoken or written. He is in God's capable hands and I do believe God will judge him (and all of us) justly, based on whatever mental capacity we have been given to grasp complex concepts. Although, in my humble opinion, Adventism makes a complex doctrine out of what is actually very simple. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 900 Registered: 10-2008 |
Honest witness, I agree with you, salvation is very, very, simple. I wonder if that is why Christ said, "Accept you become as little children, you will not enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 18:3) The context is humility. Salvation is something simple - we don't add one iota to salvation ... that is humility. Children think in simple terms ... And salvation is simply profound. Believe ... that is it. Yes, this belief is more than saying the "right" words like Jesus is Lord - ok, now I have salvation. It is trusting like a child that because of Jesus we are now adopted into the family of God. We place our trust completely in Jesus and nothing else for salvation. Praying for the person who sent this letter to Colleen. Keri | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 652 Registered: 1-2007 |
I just read the letter and I am shaking my head. It brought back memories of how I felt when I first became a sda and thought I knew it all. Everyone has said it all. So all I can add is that we pray for the person who wrote this letter. We may not know who that person is but God does. Gail | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 469 Registered: 12-2007 |
i just read this thread, and that letter just made me want to cry. I feel so bad for this poor confused soul who wants so much to be "ready" for Jesus to come and just does not seem to have a clue that all we really need to do is put our faith in Jesus Christ and accept the gift He has provided for us. This person I believe has a kind and tender heart and truly seems to fear for those of us who have left the "truth" of Adventism for the pure Gospel of Christ. This person I think truly believes it is WE who are being deceived. So sad. Francie |
