| Author | Message | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 747 Registered: 2-2008  |
We had a great sermon today... all about baptism. Pastor Keith explained that even in the Old Testament, Gentiles who wanted to become Jews had to be baptized or go through Mikveh. This Mikveh was full immersion in water in order to become cleansed. Then John the Baptist redefined baptism as to be a baptism of repentance... to be cleansed of our sins. As Keith was explaining the fact that baptism is a symbolism of being cleansed and forgiven of our sins by the work of Christ on the cross, Sergio turns to me and asked, "Why do Adventists get baptized? If they don't believe that their sins have been completely forgiven at the cross and that their sins aren't completely eradicated until they are placed on Satan... why do they baptize?" GREAT observation!!! So Adventists practice full immersion which symbolizes Christ's work on the cross... but yet don't believe that Christ's death removes or blots out their sins. What does a baptism really mean to an Adventist? Why do they practice baptism? vivian | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2009 |
I believe it's basically a baptism into membership in the organization. But it's a great point! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5734 Registered: 9-2006  |
I know it is. I got too many Adventist friends not to know it. I talk to them all the time and they openly say thats what they do, baptize them into the church. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 755 Registered: 3-2009 |
My understanding is that the SDA organization does not believe baptism is a sacrament in any way. Not even symbolical. Even though they mention Paul's statement about baptism symbolizing burial and resurrection. Their explanation of baptism is that it is a public expression of what happened inside the person. The person "believes" and accept Jesus (read the organization's doctrines) and the person makes it public by public baptism. Hec | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 80 Registered: 8-2006 |
I was taught baptism was a physical testimony of acceptence one took after buying into SDA doctrine. Thats what the SDA Fundamental Belief on Baptism states, too  In no way is it symbolic of redemption or Christ's finished work on the Cross | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 446 Registered: 12-2007 |
This makes me so sad.:-( When I was baptized (SDA) I THOUGHT I was being baptized because of Jesus death, burial and ressurrection.... and that membership into the church was something that just came alongside that decision to follow Jesus. Apparently I didnt know the teachings of the organization very well at all. All I knew at the time was what I felt in my heart. Now the question I have to consider is... since I truly felt at that time that I was being baptized both as "an outward expression of an inward change" and my desire was to be baptized to show my love for Jesus who I knew had given His life on the cross for me (was taught that He would have given His life to save even just ONE) Do I need to be re baptized ? I have thought of this off and on since leaving Adventism.... The organization I joined at the time of Baptism was wrong.... but I still feel my heart was with the Lord in SPITE of the wrong organization. I am thinking right now maybe I should be re baptized. but does it really matter ? If we are baptized into Christ... do we need to be baptized again every time we make a decision to change churches / denominations ? If baptism is a separate thang than church membership.. (I feel it is...) then does it matter which "church" I was attending at the time I was baptized ? And if so.... what if I were to "join" another church and someday found that they were also teaching some things wrong and left... would I need to be baptized again at the next church I joined? How many water baptisms do we need to have during our lifetime ? Actually I was "baptized" also as a baby (Catholic) which I dont count... and had forgotten about even being told about until I ran across the baptismal certificate a couple years ago while sorting through some of my Moms papers. Kinda made me feel creepy to see my name on that paper. :-( | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 473 Registered: 2-2003  |
Hi Skeeter, The more I think about this, and it has arisen with us a few times, is that you cannot lay down hard and fast rules, each case has to be taken on its own. On reading your post, my immediate thought is that I would not recommend re-baptism in your case. If you were baptised because you had decided to follow Jesus, then that is OK. In the end, of course, you should ask God to guide you and make your own decision. In the denomination I am now in (Hungarian Pentecostal, and therefore irrelevant to the discussion :-)), and as a church leader I have to decide these things on merit too, we would accept a tranfer of membership from another church of the same denomination (of course), and from others like Baptist or Faith Church which also practice adult, believers' baptism. We do not accept infant baptism as valid. We had a case where some ex-JWs joined and we rebaptised them, and I would do the same with Mormons, but we have not had ex-SDAs :-) In my own case, I was brought up Baptist, but got saved when I was living away from home at university in London, and just attended an evangelical Anglican church for a while. I then moved back home and got baptised in the Baptist church I had attended while growing up, which is quite nice, I guess. The baptismal formula used was all about being a disciple of Jesus and making a public confession as such, and there was no mention of the denomination. On the other hand, it did also involve automatic reception into membership of the local church. I later ended up moving to Wales and joining a Pentecostal church, but it never occurred to anyone, me or anyone else, that I would have to be re-baptised. I have also known some go in the other direction (Pentecostal to Baptist) and the idea never arose for them either. The other possible question is, what if someone should be baptised, and later realise they had not understood the gospel at the time, and get born again after adult baptism? That happened to both my parents, as the Baptist church they attended was liberal, and the kids got baptised according to tradition when they reached 15. They never got re-baptised either, though I guess I would tend to leave a case like that up to the individual. If they really wanted to be re-baptised "as a believer", I would probably do it. So, having probably confused the issue more than ever, good night and God bless to you all! Adrian | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1331 Registered: 11-2007  |
Skeeter, I agree it's an individual thing to take to God.. but we did have one pastor who was going to require it for me to join his Baptist church, because I'd only been baptized as sda. I understand his feeling.. but I knew in my heart that I had experienced repentance and the new birth prior to my baptism.. even though it was sda. God had turned my heart and life around.. but not yet my theology. That took another several years. I did not want to be required to be baptized to join any particular church, because I felt like even if I needed to do it again, I never again wanted it tied to a church membership.. so we went on to another church. Later.. I felt God leading me to be rebaptized anyway.. to me a spiritual statement of the sda baggage being buried and raised to life in Christ alone. It was just my desire. I did not feel it was something I HAD to do. Our church allows husbands/fathers to baptize, so my husband baptized my son and I together.... which was so wonderful! Pray about it.. and do as the Holy Spirit leads you to do. Sondra | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7728 Registered: 3-2004  |
I was baptized the year after I had polio. I was almost 13. I did it because God healed me from polio. That was the wrong reason, yet the pastor did not blink an eye. I was rebaptized a couple years after my divorce because I had gotten very worldly and done many things God(read SDA church) did not approve. This was for repentance for my "sins". Wrong reason again. Then a couple years later my name was taken off the church books because I could not keep up the facade of being a "good" adventist. I like dancing to much and the men that I met. My church going slipped. I never tried to get it back. In Dec 03 I had decided to be rebaptized SDA. Thank God He had other plans for me and stopped that cold!!! When I started going to Central I signed up for Starting Point, a Bible class where we studied what the church teaches. I finally learned the right reason for baptism. I was baptised into Christ the last Wednesday night of June 2004. Thank you Awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10658 Registered: 12-2003  |
I believe God will let you know whether or not you should be rebaptized. A lot of former Adventists are. Some are not because they truly were committing to live for Jesus and to know Him, and He confirmed Himself to them at their baptism with the presence of His Spirit. All this IN SPITE of their mixed-up theology and not understanding Jesus. (To me this sort of phenomenon is an example election, of God confirming to the individual that they are—and will be—His, and His hand is on them. He does save us IN our sins...) I actually suspect this sort of occurrence is the minority of cases...usually SDA baptism is all about membership. Ask God to let you know His will. He will! Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5740 Registered: 9-2006 |
I got baptized twice, one when I didn't realize the reasoning behind it since I was just a kid, one when I at least thought I knew the reasoning behind it. The Lord hasn't said anything about either one of them not being enough, so I guess I will let the last one ride. River | ||
| Jls72612 Registered user Username: Jls72612 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2009 |
After we investigated and decided to leave the SDA church, we began to wonder what we'd agreed to back when we were 12 years old. When we pulled out our baptismal certificates we found that now we disagreed with more than half of the vows! When you are baptized into the SDA church, you agree to join the SDA church and support it with your tithes, promote it with your influence, and live for the organization by abstaining from unclean foods and alcohol, you agree that Christ is in the heavenly sanctuary interceeding on your behalf, you agree to keep the 10C including observation of the seventh day, that the SOP is a mark of the remnant SDA church, and to top it all off you rejoice to be accepted into the membership of the SDA church. The list of fows is found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_baptismal_vow We are planning to be re-baptized and accept Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for us (without all the trappings attached by the SDA church). ~Judy~ www.ConnectingRelationships.org/TakingOffAdventistSunglasses.pdf | ||
| Sparrow Registered user Username: Sparrow Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2008  |
Judy, I read your story using your link. Thank you for your witness. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 452 Registered: 12-2007 |
Thank you everyone for your input. You are right. God will let me know if and when I should be re baptized. Judy, I printed out your story and read it. Thank you so much for sharing your story. My husband and I were up in your area a few weeks ago just poking around through the hills and antique shops. The area reminds me a lot of where we lived up until 15 years ago. :-) Francie | ||
| 4truth Registered user Username: 4truth Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2006 |
I would like to add my take on the baptism issue. I believe baptism is something God does for us, not a "work". If my baptism in an Adventist church was by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, what can I add to it by redoing it? Thank God I have come to a very different and more Biblical understanding of salvation since, but that does not in my mind negate the sacrament. To me the SDA additions of entering a so called remnant denomination does not annul what God does for us. (You can't tell I'm now Lutheran, can you?  I surely don't want to disparage those who wish to rebaptise, but am just sharing my viewpoint. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1094 Registered: 7-2004  |
Certainly the issue of baptism is between the individual and God - there's not one identical answer for everyone. I did want to speak up though, because I'm also now Lutheran but chose to be re-baptized in our Lutheran church. Yes, I agree it wasn't necessary from God's perspective. Yet the reason I did it is because it bothered me so much that I had been baptized in a church with many unbiblical, unChristian extras such as Satan as scapegoat, a false prophet who received messages from the devil, and completely anti-Gospel teachings as well as strong non-Trinitarian leanings from top leadership. In talking with our pastor (who from the Lutheran perspective didn't want to do this at first), he said baptism is also supposed to be for our comfort, to know in a tangible way we belong to God. So that is the reason I did it. I wanted a baptism in a truly Christian church by a truly Christian pastor, where the true Gospel alone is taught. While I was given the choice of the traditional Lutheran version of pouring or immersion, I chose pouring because I wanted to distance myself as much as possible from my first baptism. It was a little strange doing this as a Lutheran though, because we had already been members of our new church for 2 years. If my first baptism wasn't considered valid, it would not have been possible in that congregation for me to participate in communion, let alone be a member. I figured it would be difficult for the rest of the church to understand what I was doing and why, so we did this after a church service, with my immediate family and my closest friend at that church. For me, it was very meaningful and I'm glad to have done that. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1918 Registered: 5-2007  |
Raven, My thinking and story is pretty much the same as yours. When I desided to be re-baptized I had been a member of an evangelical church for some time. It was not about joining a certain church. In fact, the baptism was held in another church. Now days, I am not a member of a denomination but am currantly worshiping in a Calvery Church which ironically rents the gym of a local SDA church. Fearless Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10723 Registered: 12-2003 |
I believe that re-baptism as a Christian after being baptized as an Adventist is really individual. I further believe that God does convict us whether or not we should be re-baptized. So many Adventists were baptized as a ritual without knowing Jesus that they opt to be baptized as a Christian. I wholeheartedly support this decision--in fact, I actually encourage it! On the other hand, some people really were wholeheartedly seeking God and truth as Adventists and experienced the Holy Spirit confirming His presence in their lives when they were baptized as Adventists. I believe this sort of experience is the minority one...but I know that I, for example, was baptized at the age of 10, and I distinctly knew I was choosing to follow Jesus—and the Holy Spirit was tangibly present with me for about a 24-hour period afterward. I had never experienced anything like that before, and I knew God was with me, holding me, giving me joy. I remember thinking, "No one else knows I'm experiencing this!" Looking back, I recognize His "voice" and realize that He was in the years of my struggle with Adventism, preparing me and teaching me the internal inconsistencies, doctrines, and utter helplessness of Adventism. I look back on it now and know that He was preparing me for now. Of course, I had no idea what the gospel really was, and for the next 3 1/2 decades my life was a mess of anxiety and spiritual confusion and deep frustration. But God is faithful, and He finally fully removed the veil. I have repeatedly asked God if I should be baptized again, actually rather wanting to be, but He has been quite clear with me, convicting me that it was He who confirmed Himself to me then, and He guided my life until now—and to be baptized again, IN MY CASE, would be to say that experience with Him didn't "count". On the other hand, our older son was deeply and unavoidably convicted, two years ago, that he needed to be baptized again. He was baptized at the age of 11, but he didn't know the real Jesus. His baptism can be seen here: http://www.formeradventist.com/stories/Resources/roysbaptism.mov Raven, I totally understand and applaud your baptism. That was a pivotal moment of truth and commitment that nothing else could have equalled. Being baptized as a Christ-follower is a wonderful thing. It is a powerful, public act of obedience to the Lord Jesus that is a huge witness to His mercy and grace in your life! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1605 Registered: 6-2006  |
Heck, I got baptised twice and never left my church! The first was a traditional baptism/confirmation in the Lutheran Church, and the second was in the stream believed to be where Paul baptised the first Christian convert, Lydia. They were both special. If I ever make it to the Holy Land I plan to get baptised in the Jordan River! Raven, I sure wish I could have been there at your baptism. I bet it was beautiful. Leigh Anne |
