| Author | Message | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2009 |
Last Saturday I went to church with my wife (as I do every other Saturday to try and keep peace), and it was the day 4 people were being baptized. What an event that was. Anyway, before the actual baptism, there were about 10 or so things the 4 people at the front of the room had to say they agreed with / believed in. Such things as never having a drink, belief in the Remnant Church, and the Spirit of Prophecy, belief in the 10 C's, among others. Anyone know what are the "standard" initiation questions asked at the baptismal ceremony, or was this the pastor doing this on his own? The first few questions he asked sort of lull you to sleep thinking " that is ok, that is ok." Then the alarm goes off by the time he got to the 4th or 5th question. I thought we were baptized into Christ's death and resurrection... My adventist wife told me she had "never seen that done at an adventist church before." Any thoughts? | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 519 Registered: 7-2004 |
I think that some sda pastors do this and some don't. I believe that my daughter was baptized without the hoopla and my son had to agree to the questions in front of the church. It's weird and not Biblical. Like joining a cult. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2986 Registered: 10-2004  |
Cordurb, That is definitely the standard procedure for SDA baptism. In fact, the SDA Church Manual requires that anyone being baptized must agree with, and sign, the "Baptismal Vow and Certificate of Baptism and Commitment" which also contains a copy of a "Summary of Doctrinal Beliefs" (different than the official Fundamental Beliefs statement). The "Baptismal Vow" itself contains 13 items, including the ones you mentioned above. You can read it for yourself on pages 32-33 of the official SDA Church Manual, at the following link: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/Seventh-day-Adventist-Church-Manual-17th-edition.pdf You'll notice that #11 requires acceptance of the Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA. There is also a shorter alternative vow that can be used verbally instead of the standard vow, which also requires acceptance of the Fundamental Beliefs. But that standard vow (in affirmation form) is what is part of the baptism certificate and must be signed by the person being baptized. SDA baptism means becoming a member of the SDA Church. Also, you can read the "Summary of Doctrinal Beliefs" on pages 219-223 at the above link. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 01, 2009) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1689 Registered: 7-2003  |
Searched on adventist baptismal vows to try to find the adventist.org section on it and found this instead. Thought it quite enlightening.... http://www.pathfindersonline.org/forumbb3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5418 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: It's weird and not Biblical. Like joining a cult. It IS joining a cult looks to me like. River | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thanks Jeremy. That is what I was looking for. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1170 Registered: 11-2007  |
Yep, we had to do that in front of the church... which is why I'm SO glad we were this year baptized into Christ alone... Praise God! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1800 Registered: 5-2007  |
Yep, I don't remember the details, that was back in 1953, but my inability to live up to my vows is what led me out of Adventism in 1958. Ten years later with a wife and a son, a real Christian introduced me to the real Jesus Christ and that nothing could separate me from the love of God. Next, the Holy Spirit led me to the real meaning of the Scapegoat. At the time, for all I knew, I was all alone in knowing who the Scapegoat is. Two perfect goats...one sacrifice! As the saying goes; "The rest is history". Phil | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 387 Registered: 3-2009 |
There is a big debate in Adventism right now about this matter. Some pastors do not baptize into membership, but into Jesus. But as Jeremy said, this is not standard procedure, and those pastors face disapproval from the "higher ups". Some SDAs believe that the practice of having people agree to behavioral standards b4 baptism is wrong. Also, they believe that being baptized into Jesus and into the SDA church should not be one-and-the-same. I was one of those SDAs when I was a member. My father, who is an SDA pastor, always strongly disagreed with me, saying that there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. I was baptized at 10 yrs. old and had to agree to all those "standards". I'm so glad that decision doesn't define me now! Cordurb, I hope that what your wife saw before the baptism really gets her thinking. I'm saying a prayer right now that she'll have some really uncomfortable dissonance about it. | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2009 |
Unfortunately, the Sabbath is her measuring stick. All else could be chaos, but if you don't keep the 10 C's, you are not honoring God. I think the baptism made her uncomfortable. At least she said she didn't agree with it. Now my challenge is my kids being brainwashed. They are being homeschooled and my 5 year old thinks the first Sabbath was at creation... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10339 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sigh. Cordurb, I continue to pray for you and for your wife. I'm praying that God will give you wisdom and authority to speak and teach truth whenever there is an opening. Jesus is SO much more comforting and powerful than Sabbath... Colleen | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2009 |
I covet your prayers and I am grateful for this Forum. I have learned a great deal. Sometimes I admit though, all the things you all see and understand make me bitter at her that she can't see... | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7420 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cordub, Read 2 Cor 3 14-17. Your wife has that veil over her eyes. Only God can take that veil away. I will continue to pray for you and your wife and children. Diana L | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 521 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well actually Cordurb, the first Sabbath WAS at creation, meant to continue, but then sin came. The second Sabbath came along and was born in Bethlehem  I'm sure you've addressed this, but does your wife still hold on to Ellen White? Letting go of her authority is what allowed me to read the Bible without her interpretation. Before that it was hard to differentiate between her and God. I am praying for you. Don't be bitter, with all these prayers I think God will open her eyes. | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2007 |
It was done at my baptism 48 years ago and I guess nothing has changed!!! I am so thankful that I chose to get baptised again after I became a believer. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7421 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I gave up egw a burden was lifted off my shoulders that I had never felt before. I was a fantastic feeling. AWESOME!!! Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10342 Registered: 12-2003 |
Me too, Diana! Letting her go--not just as "not a prophet" but as a FALSE prophet was unbelievably liberating! Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Sunshinemama Registered user Username: Sunshinemama Post Number: 78 Registered: 3-2009 |
I know when I was baptized 4 years ago I had to sign something with the 27 fundamental beliefs and the pastor of the prophecy seminar went over them with me (not in front of people though) and I had to agree that I believed and understood those things. wow! I pray for you as well...how difficult... | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7424 Registered: 3-2004 |
The time God lifted that burden off my shoulders was after reading Anderson's website about EGW. I remember telling myself that I could never go back to that church because she had to much influence on its doctrines. Right after I said that I palpably felt the burden lifted off my shoulders. It was awesome. Done by an awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 665 Registered: 7-2008  |
When I was baptized, I had 2 crosses around my neck. They went ahead and baptized me with both crosses still on me. They didnt say anything to me about it at all. How about them apples ! Animal | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 507 Registered: 3-2009 |
Nobody is going to mess with an Animal. Hec | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7425 Registered: 3-2004 |
He'll take all their popcorn and root beer!! Diana L | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 667 Registered: 7-2008 |
Well.....someone has to do it! LOL LOL | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1790 Registered: 4-2000  |
My very first doubt about Ellen White and Adventism surfaced when I read Dr. Ronald Numbers' factual book entitled "Prophetess of Health" in 1976. The White Estate's 23-page critique of that book came across to me as being far from objective. The facts of that book continued to gnaw at my spiritual bones until the end of the twentieth century. Truly, our awesome and sovereign God never goes on a rescue mission that fails. My wife Sylvia, having grown up in a very strict SDA home, sometimes privately thought while still a child, "What if we are wrong?" We continue to praise God for not leaving us where He found us. Each additional year away from Seventh-day Adventism makes it abundantly clear as being even more deceptive and unbiblical than we initially thought when we officially left in 2000. When the founders of a new website that was created by some local Adventists, here in Lincoln, Nebraska, to finally answer former Adventists' questions decided to pull the plug to any further dialogue in just two weeks, my wife replied, "Seventh-day Adventism is indefensible." How true! Soli Deo Gloria! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2009 |
I echo River's answer several posts up .....it is joining a cult. And yes this is standard procedure in most Adventist churches....very rarely have I seen someone baptized without being in front of the church answering that they accept the 28 fundamental beliefs. A couple of times when it wasn't done, the preacher that was baptizing them just asked if they believed the 27 or 28 fundamentals, didn't go through them one by one. | ||
| 4truth Registered user Username: 4truth Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2006 |
I was baptized about 37 years ago in an Adventist church, and I don't agree with many of their beliefs now. Since I was baptized then in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,I personally believe that is sufficient and would never consider being rebaptised. Baptism is something God does for us, not a work or denominational sign. It's to bad they have to make it complicated and divisive. In my current church, they don't say anything at baptism about denominational affiliation, or specific, unique beliefs. (Message edited by 4TRUTH on September 09, 2009) |
