| Author | Message | ||
| Jessicamsa Registered user Username: Jessicamsa Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2009 |
Somewhere in my childhood, I read that after God told him to sacrafice Isaac, that Abraham was confused about why He would ask that and wondered if he did something wrong. It may have come from those blue Bible story books I read as a child. Anyway, it came up in a thread on another board and I read the Bible verses and it not only in no way mentions what this person was saying, but it does not say what I was taught, either. Here's the scripture: Genesis 22 Abraham Tested 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." 3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you." 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?" "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied. "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?" 8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. 12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son." 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram [a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided." 15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring [b] all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me." So, did the story I was told before come from the Bible story books, or what? I am not for certain. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 563 Registered: 8-2008 |
The Bible does not say Abraham was confused. He did not think he had done something wrong, either. Rather, he answered repeatedly, "Here I am," demosntrating his trusting submission to the Father. In fact, if you line up his three successive, "Here I am" statements, and see what follows, you will see three successive explanations of what God was really trying to show him. Abraham obeyed because he trusted that, whatever happened, he and Isaac would be walking down the hill together. He believed Isaac would rise from the grave, and as such his faith in the promise of land and descendants was transferred to its real object, faith in the resurrection life of Jesus Christ. Note the verb tenses in v. 14. Not, "The Lord did provide," but, "The Lord will provide." Not, "On the mountain of the Lord it was provided," but, "On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided." Through this exercise, Abraham came to see fully the plan of the Messiah's substitionary atonement for our sins, symbolized by the ram dying in place of Isaac. (Message edited by bskillet on August 29, 2009) | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1162 Registered: 11-2007  |
Just read this recently (finally got the nerve to read through Torah again) and was deeply moved by this story. God taught me a great deal through the whole story of Abraham - personal things for my life that I needed to remember and apply. I found the "Here I am" phrase interesting - and looked it up, so many places it's used. It seemed to have much more significance to them and we don't really have an English equivalent it doesn't seem like. As a mother of two sons - I cannot begin to even imagine the trust Abraham had in this act.. yet it's what I feel God telling me to do NOW - to give my children completely to Him - and my calling in life.. simply everything. The Promise is given freely and through no work of our own, and in this story, when we see the fruit of it - we are still called to submit it back to God - it is nothing we can "own" or maintain - it is all Him and in Him. This is why it's a better Promise. He gives it, then he asks us to trust Him with it. Sondra | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1163 Registered: 11-2007 |
I think we though are often tempted to fear we have done something wrong when we are tested.. that we are being punished for something. This has been a huge thing for me to overcome coming from my sda background. I want to remember when I am tested that it's an opportunity to show my love and trust for God - to give Him glory - that bad circumstances do not indicate punishment but opportunity. Gen 22:12 He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me." Sondra | ||
| Elaine Registered user Username: Elaine Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2009 |
Be very careful when you hear voices. How can you be sure they are God's or something else. Several years ago in California a most sincere Christian man said he clearly heard God's voice telling him to sacrifice his beloved daughter, which he did. He was tried for murder and the case was interesting because the jury was convinced he was completely sane and truly believed it was God's voice, just like Abraham. Nevertheless, he was charged, but the jury was convinced he could not have been sane and found him not guilty by reason of insanity! In Abraham's contemporary culture, child sacrifice was not uncommon. Perhaps that is why he so willingly complied. In the Hebrew Bible, God claims all the firstborn as His. There are Middle Eastern cultures who believe in killing daughters who even are seen with a non-relative male. Cultures change, killing is always breaking God's law. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1164 Registered: 11-2007 |
When I say.. doing the same thing.. I meant strictly in a spiritual sense.... very strictly. =) I am always amazed at how well Abraham must have known the voice of God - to obey this command. I would certainly think that was NOT God! And btw, welcome Elaine!! I missed your first post somewhere. Glad to have you here. You are right - lots of crazy crazy stuff out there. (Message edited by 8thday on August 29, 2009) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10312 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, Sondra, that's what strikes me, too. Abraham knew God's voice. Jesus said His sheep would know His voice. Generally that "voice" isn't literally audible, but He knows how to make Himself clear—and His directions will always agree with Scripture. Welcome, Elaine! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7403 Registered: 3-2004  |
Welcome to FAF Elaine. You are in a safe place. Diana L | ||
| Elaine Registered user Username: Elaine Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2009 |
Thank you all for the welcome. I hope I am not too discordant! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1017 Registered: 7-2007 |
God sacrificed His only Son, so He would NEVER command someone else to do it. He didn't even let Abraham do it! Jesus was the ONE sacrifice for sin. "But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God" Hebrews 10:12. (By the way, He "sat down at the right hand of God." There's another verse Adventists miss. What place in Heaven could be holier than where God is? So Jesus went into the Most Holy Place right away after His ascension! Actually Hebrews 6:19,20 and Hebrews 9:12,25 are even clearer about that!!!  ) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 491 Registered: 3-2009 |
Welcome Elaine. The voice of God (Holy Spirit). That's one thing that worries me a bit. There are many people who say that they have the Holy Spirit, and that the have been baptized by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides their live. The say, "the Holy Spirit told me to do this and that. The Holy Spirit showed me this and that. My problem is that sometimes, it seems the "Holy Spirit" tells two different people to do or believe things which are totally opposite to each other. How can the Holy Spirit teach contradictory things to different people? Hec | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1022 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hec, Isaiah 8:20 says: "...If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." And there are other verses that warn against false prophets. Ellen White contradicted the Bible, though she claimed inspiration (if not by the Holy Spirit, then by her angel who spoke in King James English! Joseph Smith's angel ALSO spoke in King James English! Maybe it was the SAME angel [demon]!) So, Hec; you have to go by their fruits and whether or not their words come true. And no, the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict Himself! In my case, God used Handmaiden to bring me out of Adventism. Yes, she prays in tongues and she prayed in tongues for me. It worked though. A person steeped in Adventism and absolutely certain that it's true, like I was; wouldn't be easy to show its error to. After she had fasted and prayed spiritual warfare, the Holy Spirit told her to wait until I brought up Michael the archangel. It took awhile, but I finally did. She showed me her material and that finally started me thinking that I should check and see for myself if Ellen White was really a true prophet. Second, I found out that Jesus didn't wait until 1844 to go into the Most Holy Place (Hebrews 6:19,20; 9:12,25) and then third, I found that Jesus started up a brand new covenant when He died and that the old one is obsolete. (Heb. 8:13; Heb. 9:15-17) So, Hec; that got results - miraculous results! God-given results! And now I'm free!!! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 497 Registered: 3-2009 |
Sorry, I was not questioning any part of your experience. I was just asking a general question. Actually, I wouldn't feel too bad if one of these days I started speaking in tongues. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10313 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, I generally distrust statements that come with "The Holy Spirit [or God] told me"... If there is an issue God is dealing with in you, He will not reveal His message for you through someone else unless He's already been dealing with you about it. To be sure, I believe the Holy Spirit does impress us, but generally it's not particularly edifying to "blame" or "claim" inspiration for what one says. Perhaps a person has heard from God; perhaps not. The message itself will carry the weight of authenticity and biblical grounding, or it won't. When I worked at The Quiet Hour, I used to receive LOTS of unsolicited poetry for publication. Almost without exception, the better ones came with a letter from the author stating he or she was submitting the piece for our consideration. The really trivial or badly written ones often came with a letter saying the Holy Spirit had given the verse to the author, and we were welcome to publish it (all written in a tone suggesting they were granting us the privilege of receiving the crown jewels...) Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10314 Registered: 12-2003 |
And, Hec—God grants the gifts He gives as He wills according to His sovereign design. 1 Corinthians 14 lists many of them. I am completely convinced that He knows what each of us needs in order to do two things: grow and heal as He knows we need, and do the work He gives us. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1023 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thanks Hec, I was just using my experience as an example of the Holy Spirit's work in a person's life. |
