| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 679 Registered: 6-2005  |
In sending my story of leaving adventism via email again,I am about to get to the part that brought such angry responses last time. Ill copy it here. It was in answer to several folks who questioned "why" I felt the need to tell this story. Why not just keep it to myself. The full verssion is below, under the "sending my story" thread. Here's the short form. Scroll to the last paragraph if you dont want to read it again! OK FAST FORWARD OVER TWO YEARS LATER….and to begin to answer questions. "Today at church I heard a great sermon. My pastor made a point about the story of Moses, and it just resonated with me so very deeply. His point was this (with some of my own thoughts added): Moses was out in the desert wilderness when he was surprised by the presence of God. (Just like my situation). God came to him in the form of a burning bush. Moses was directly in the presence of God. God spoke to him from the glory of a burning bush that refused to burn up. The holiness of God was so strong Moses had to keep a certain distance, and even remove his shoes! God spoke to Moses directly. Moses was changed by the personal presence of God. The question posed by the pastor was this. What if Moses had just stayed where He had encountered the presence of God? What if he had just basked in God’s presence for years? What if He gave glory to God the rest of his days for revealing Himself to him? What if he had never went back to Egypt to free the slaves!? God revealed Himself to Moses; he opened the eyes of Moses and allowed him to SEE a part of God others he knew had never experienced. Moses could have gone forward, and just left those he loved behind. Of course we know the rest of the story. Moses was obedient to God, and as a result enjoyed the blessings of God, got out of the desert, and led many others toward the goodness of God. I pray I am able to do the same, out of obedience to God, as a result of His mercy to me, to let others know there is much, much, more to the kingdom of God than we knew as Adventists. I want you to know the grace of God, and the changing power of the Holy Spirit in all His fullness. I want you to know the more of God that I know and experience daily. It’s natural to get used to slavery to a religious system. But I can say this from experience. Being a slave (the ONLY option God describes in the bible other than freedom in Christ) even a high ranking slave with privileges and prestige, pales in comparison to the lowest form of freedom. See, freedom is so superior. And that is why I believe God tells us to ‘get rid of the bond woman, the law”. He wants us to have the best. He wants us to enjoy the life He died to secure for us. Loving God out of a grateful heart for His finished work on the cross on our behalf is better"... Anyway, Im not sure what brought out the fight from this part, but it sure was there. Im not sure about sending this part out again, but Im leaning toward sending it... Sooo...How do you all deal with the ANGRY responses! Not genuine questions, but taking deep offense to what was written here. Im talking furious responses. It just took me by surprise. Any one else had this kind of reaction? | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 434 Registered: 1-2006  |
Yes. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 680 Registered: 6-2005 |
lol | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10254 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, too! God is greater than our hearts, Lori—the responses change nothing that is real. You are God's daughter, and you are secure. Colleen | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 275 Registered: 1-2007  |
It's the typical response you will get from a Christian who claims you need to keep the 10 commandments. When you tell them we are no longer under the law, it strips away their self righteousness, their one device they use to compare themselves to others. The one thing that makes them feel superior or better than the rest. Their only response is anger and "So now we can murder, lie, steal, covet, commit adultry, because we are no longer under the law". Of course we know the answer is no, we do not want to, we have the Spirit of God in us. Paul | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 734 Registered: 2-2008  |
LOVE your post Paul... so true... it takes away "their one device they use to compare themselves to others." Being under the law just leads to legalism, not a life with Christ! vivian | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 681 Registered: 6-2005 |
Ok, so we know the problem. Any suggestions. I do not want to ignore these responses, these are people I love.... I dont feel the need to be defensive, But I want to express love and keep the door open for friendship and fellowship. Last year, after sending my story out, people slammed the door on any relationship, and I didnt know what to do, so I did nothing. Lori | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 573 Registered: 1-2007 |
Great job Lori, I would send it out again. Sometimes it takes more than once to get through to people. Angry responses comes from fear perpretated by Satan. The church is based on fear taught by egw not on love. Back in those days churches taught by fire and brimstone (yelling and fear). The churches (not sda) learned that this teaching did not work and changed to teaching through love and not losing God's message. The trouble with sda is they still teach under fear; the only difference is they have toned it down by getting rid of the yelling and so it makes it harder for outsiders to figure it out and for those raised inside to not know any different. I have come to the conclusion sda's are like children. When you have a close friend and he/she adds another person to be her friend your feeling get hurt and I think that is what is going on with the nasty responses. They can not gracefully let go. It's like they don't want to know our new friend Jesus as we know and have freedom in Him. Since they do not want to get to know Him they have to make up lies about His freedom such as we are now allowed to steal, murder, etc. or that our feelings got hurt by someone in the church. So all I can say is to not take it personally but to show them that Jesus is love not fear. Sorry for getting long winded. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7368 Registered: 3-2004  |
Lori, all you can do about those who have slammed the door shut on you is pray for them. Adventists have ingrained in them very deeply that those that leave adventism are lost, going to hell, etc. You have to leave them to God. I apply the Serenity Prayer here. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." You cannot change any of them. Only God can. Ask yourself, can you do anything to change any of them. You have to learn to love them without picking up their burdens. This is called tough love. You still care about them and love them. So pray lots. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10260 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree with Diana, Lori. I'm not sure there is much you can do except pray and be available if they venture back. The problem is that these kinds of encounters reveal the foundation of relationships. In powerful ways, Adventism was the cornerstone of our identities. I know that I was more "Adventist" than I was American or teacher or writer or mother or wife. I was first, foremost, and foundationally "Adventist". When we leave that foundation and become part of the body of Christ, we discover which relationships were primarily defined by Adventism instead of by our own intrinsic value. I understand now why, as an Adventist, I had real trouble developing significant relationships with non-Adventists because their worldview didn't match mine. I assumed they were shaped by and committed to error, and I felt superior to that and wanted no part in it. I don't know how to avoid the anger and reactions, Lori, except to pray for them and to ask God to redeem your investment in those people and to glorify Himself. You've moved from one kingdom into another. You and those friends are no longer citizens of the same "home", and your loyalty is to another King. Short of hiding the truth, I know of nothing you can do to avoid this. I'm so sorry--but I'm proud of you! Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 974 Registered: 7-2007 |
Back when I was an Adventist, I was SO CERTAIN that the SDA church was the truth, that I would have been shocked if I had heard about someone leaving it for theological reasons. I wouldn't have gotten angry if I'd received your story of leaving Adventism. I would have tried to argue you back into the "truth" and then would have been shocked when I couldn't - shocked that the Bible doesn't support the Adventist position. Adventists are so certain that they have the truth, but they're afraid of reading what someone else says. J. Witnesses, Catholics and Mormons have the same fear. It's hard to tell them anything that contradicts each of their prophets/leaders/pope. When you show them something from the Bible, each of them have an explanation given them by their leaders. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5364 Registered: 9-2006  |
If I ever speak out on facebook, I will get kicked off. The quote of the day. "I agree that most Adventists who leave DO stay Christians" They weren't Christians in the first place, thats why they are Adventist. Duh! Lori, tell me how to handle my own anger when liberals speak, never mind Adventist anger, thats easier to handle! River | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 626 Registered: 7-2008  |
I was an Adventist for 30 years. During those years I was a christian. I loved my Lord and He was always by my side. Took Him 30 years to lead me out of there. But I was a christian. Of that I have no doubt. I was a christian before I entered Adventism thru a Revelation seminar. Was i decieved?..Sure I was. Did God still love me?...Sure He did, He saved me at the age of 15 and He never lost hold of me..This is no opinion...this is fact. And God knows that too. He has sheep in many folds. I finally heard His call to leave SDA church and I obeyed with a willing and joyful heart. Enuff said. ....Animal | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 455 Registered: 3-2009 |
Amen, Animal. Ditto here. Hec | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2008 |
Animal and Hec, Your posts cut me deeply ... hurt to a depth I'm not used to. I may be reading your posts incorrectly and I'm sure I'm super sensitive at this time. I am going to ask you to read something in the member's section that I will post soon. By Adventism's own admission they are NOT Christian. I can understand that God begins to call people in Adventism - that He pursues them in their spiritual "deadness". He pulls them out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light (Rom. 3; Eph. 2; John 5:24) If we are given His Spirit at our new birth in Christ (John 3) and the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth and teaches us (John 14:17) - the Truth of Jesus and His inerrant Word ... then we are in rebellion against the Holy Spirit; if we continue in Adventism after we are born again. Yes, it takes time to come out - and some it takes years until the cognitive dissonance gets to a point of submission ... I don't deny that ... But, if we are truly born again in Adventism we cannot stay in Adventism. During the time we are in Adventism and born again we would be in rebellion against God - for Adventism teaches false doctrines and a false gospel (Galatian heresy) and should not be considered Christian. If you wish to read a good research article on why Adventism is not Christian then go to Proclamation! May/June 2007. For me I needed to repentant for the time I was in Adventism and following a false gospel. Keri | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2008 |
Sorry guys, I realize you weren't implying that Adventism is Christian .. only that God was calling you while you were in Adventism. Yep, I'm super sensitive right now ... Sorry. Keri | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 520 Registered: 8-2008 |
Amen Paul! It's the stoicheion, "the basic principles of the world," the idea that a person can gain holiness or righteousness or special spiritual status or utopia or anything of the sort, just by doing the right list of things. It is pride itself, trust in one's own flesh. It is the very basis of the human flesh, seeking to be like God via "the knowledge of good and evil." | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 627 Registered: 7-2008 |
Keri... I respect your right to believe as you do. You are my sister in Christ and I love you with Christ love. But.... At the age of 15 i turned my heart over to Jesus. It was a moment of peace that only God could give. I WAS lost and Jesus found me. He wrapped me in His arms of love and assured me that I was His child. The next day as I was in school, several of my friends noticed a difference in me. Some asked me if I had gotten saved. Such reflected a witness to the saving grace that had entered my life. Jesus called it being "born again". I have never had a reason to doubt my conversion. I am sorry that you do. But Keri...you dont know my heart like Jesus does. He accepted my cry for salvation and He saved me...100%..warts and all. And ever since that nite...God has never let go of me..He has never lost me. His gift of the new birth is an eternal gift. How can the One who saved me lose me??. He never loses His sheep that are in His arms. 10 months after my conversion I joined the SDA church along with mom and dad. At that time I didnt know Adventism was wrong or a cult. You see,Christians dont know everything. Christians Can be decieved. If you dont believe that then you have been deceived yourself. You can still be a child of God and have the wrong info or doctrine. Salvation isnt about knowledge or doctrine(though they are important). Salvation is about reaching out to God and crying out to Him to deliver you from the bondage of sin. Salvation is about establishing a love relationship with a loving Savior. And that is what I did in April of 1977. Since salvation is 100% of God, how could I have lost my salvation during my SDA years. Did God drop and lose me?? Can God lose anyone of His precious sheep. Either God saves or He doesnt save. Which is it?? I have walked with the Lord for 31 years now. And last year God took my hand and led me out of Adventism..Praise God !!!!!.Why it took 30 years? I dont know and I dont care. All I know is that thru my Adventist years God never left me or denied His love to and for me. He has His children in all churches . Who are you do judge otherwise. God knows what He is doing And I trust Him. Why cant you? Animal | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 458 Registered: 3-2009 |
Amen and ditto. I insist that salvation is in Jesus alone. Not Jesus plus works, not Jesus plus correct doctrine, not Jesus plus anything. John 3:16 Hec | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 752 Registered: 10-2008 |
Animal, No, you do not lose your salvation by behavior or by wrong beliefs after you are born again. I don't believe I was implying that you lost your salvation - nor did I say you were not saved or converted. I'm sorry, for the miscommunication. Indeed, who can judge if someone is saved or not. Forgive, me for sounding judgmental - that was not my intention. But I cannot be unequivocal about this one thing. Adventism - the doctrines, the beliefs, and the institution is NOT Christian. Are there those in Adventism that are being called from their deadness (Eph. 2:1-8) into belief in Jesus alone ... yes, ... and sometimes it takes years for people to come out of Adventism. Did Christ leave you during that time after being saved - ofcourse NOT - if you are born-again He will never leave you nor will He forsake you. I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was implying that. My pastor does say one thing that has stuck with me ... If he sees someone living a life that would not be of God ... say adultery ... He does not say nothing ... He does not say, "Oh, they were born again - God will lead them out." What he does is confront that person and say ... Are you rebelling against God? Are you really saved - for Christ in them would not want them in adultery? Paul speaks of these things. For just as Adventists that leave Adventism are accused of "now you think it is ok to kill and do all kinds of license things" we say ofcourse not. Jesus living in me would not have me do such a thing. So Jesus living in someone cannot leave them to the false doctrines of the Adventist Church. How would that be? Jesus saves you and then leaves you to believe falsehood. Indeed, Christians can be deceived or rationalize with falsehood, but Jesus could not leave them there. And it is wonderful that Jesus did not leave you and brought you out a year ago. That is wonderful!! I too, was brought out a year ago. For me, though, I know I was not saved. But that is me. I guess what I was trying to say is that if we are born again - God cannot leave us to believe falsely about Himself ... Probably not communicating well at all ... so forgive me, Animal. Keri |
