| Author | Message | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2005 |
See you all in Dayton the Lord willing and the creeks between TN and Ohio don't rise. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10100 Registered: 12-2003  |
OK--the thread above about spiritual attacks surrounding signifiant events convinced me I need to post something else here. I got a phone call last night that my mom, who had her mitral valve replaced in March and whom we just moved into a retirement community before we started on this trip, fell last night. She broke her elbow and needs to have surgery on it. The orthopedists won't do anything until they talk to cardiology, though, because she's on coumadin ( serious blood-thinner) pending a possible cardioversion for her heart rhythm in late July. All the medical offices at LLUMC are closed today because of July 4, so mom is in the infirmary in her new retirement community with a temporary cast on her elbow. She has severe osteoporosis (doubtless the reason for the break), and this new development raises all kinds of questions regarding the level of care/assistance she may need ongoingly. Also, the thought of her going through more general anesthesia at her age so close to the last surgery induces a whole different set of concerns. Richard made a comment last night about the timing of this being so connected to the tour meetings...I agree with him. I hardly even know what, specifically, to pray—except that God will direct and care for Mom and all of us and glorify Himself and make His will clear. Sigh. Thank you! Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2007 |
Colleen, Although I am not doing a TOE...I can understand your frustration. My Mom just turned 97 last month. Until last July she was still living in her own home, doing her own cooking, cleaning, keeping up with the news, managing her own finances, out walking around the neighborhood visiting with neighbors, etc. Last July she fell and got 2 severe compression fractures to her spine... she just hasnt been the same since. She went through 3 surgeries within a period of a few weeks and it did not seem to do much if any good. She is now on strong pain medications,, Norco and a pain patch. She now lives with us half the time and my sister the other half. She has lost her independence and she is not dealing with it well at all. She does not want to live any longer and just does not understand why God does not take her. I keep telling her that she is here for a reason. We may not know what that reason is, but God does. It is hard having her here.... she is always depressed and just lays on the couch all day and sleeps most of the time or when awake lays there and makes moaning noises.. The one good thing is that she is still able to walk (with a walker) and get herself back and forth to the bathroom. I was hoping to take her down to an adult community center a couple times a week to visit for a few hours with other older people,I thought she might enjoy that, but she cant because she cannot stand to sit in an upright position over a few minutes at a time and then needs to lie back down again.In the meantime, I also watch our 4 year old Grandson 4 days a week while his parents work, and try to help my husband run our store which is really hard with a 4 year old and a 97 year old here at home. Then I feel guilty... Last time it was my sisters turn to come and get her,, after they left I just broke down and cried,, it was a relief to know I didnt have to deal with it for a while, and yet,, I felt guilty for feeling relieved. Then a couple days after my Mom left, my SDA MIL came over and stayed several days and while I love her dearly and we can usually talk openly about spiritual matters,,, she knows that I am searching outside the SDA church and she would not really talk much without coming off as very critical. Such is life...... I will remember you and your Mom in my prayers, and please pray also for my Mom and that I and my husband will be able to care for her and be loving and kind and not lose our sanity. :-) Sometimes it is just sooo hard. Francie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7168 Registered: 3-2004  |
Colleen and Francie, You are in my prayers. God has already won those battles at the cross. In Hebrews 5 is one of my favorite verses-He will never leave us or forsake us. That is so awesome of Him. Diana L | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 616 Registered: 2-2008  |
praying here also Colleen. Sondra and I were just talking about this very thing. She went to visit her Grandma. Within that first day, her little guy got sick with stomach troubles. He's fine... I also believe that the one thing that would take her back home would be one of her kids getting sick. I'll be praying that God will watch over your mom. Francie, I'll be praying for you also. wow... that's a lot of work. Yes it is... sometimes very hard. ~vivian | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 330 Registered: 1-2007 |
Oh Colleen do I definitely see the timing on this. Reminds me of my situation just before FAF this year. Continuing to pray for all of you and for all aspects involved in these meetings. Blessed | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10102 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, my goodness--today was...unforgettable. We went to two places related to Adventism: the Michigan Conferences Camp Au Sable and the Adventist Heritage Village in Battle Creek. I'll try to tell you about it. Camp Au Sauble is in Grayling, MI, and it surrounds a beautiful small lake. It is certainly the most beautiful Adventist youth camp I've ever seen. There is a forest of trees with undergrowth of ferns and grasses, and there is a boardwalk that completely circles the lake. We walked around the whole walkway, and I have to tell you it was lovely. When I was young, I never went to summer camp because either my folks couldn't afford to send me, or something or other would come up...so it didn't elicit the same deep reactions in me that it did in Richard. We were with a friend who had unexpected, huge emotions walking through the camp as well. Richard said he was heavily aware of a darkness that made him want to leave, and our friend just experienced a wash of feelings of sadness and regret and loss and disillusionment. All in all, the Camp Au Sable experience left us pretty shaken. Heritage Village was surreal. The three of us were the only people on the tour. We arrived at 4:00 PM, and the Village is open on Fridays until 5:00. Interestingly (but it shouldn't have been surprising), it is also open on SABBATH. Of course, admission is free—but visiting the museum of early Adventist history is considered Sabbath activity—akin to worship, apparently. At any rate, it is open on Sabbath. The tour began with a video produced in 2008 by The White Estate. The video called Joseph Bates the "apostle of the Sabbath". Anyway, it proceeded through a small museum of Kellogg's sanitarium health remedies and included several of the motorized machines he used for tonics and for exercise. Several of the machines were supposed to treat (among other things) constipation—which the guide (a junior student at Andrews University) told us was caused by people tending to eat unrefrigerated meat. I asked why unrefrigerated meat would cause constipation, but she really didn't know. We went through several houses which were either facsimiles of or the actual buildings moved to the spot and related to several pioneers of Adventism, and our young guide told us stories about each significant person connected with each house. There is a church there that is a facsimile of the church where Ellen had her Civil War vision. It's a small wooden church with a podium towering above the people. That church just felt so uncomfortable to me...in fact, all three of us had similar reactions. It felt "creepy"'; I physically felt almost nauseous and weepy. The other really uncomfortable place was Ellen and James' house. It was their actual house while they lived in Battle Creek, and it is the place where Ellen wrote out her Great Controversy vision in the book Spiritual Gifts Vol 1. Our guide took us upstairs past James' bedroom into Ellen's bedroom (yes, they had separate bedrooms) where Ellen had a chair with a writing table on it; This room was where she penned The Great Controversy vision, and the guide treated the whole house and sacred memory of that room almost with reverence. When she finished her "spiel" about the room (which included an anecdote about James not liking Ellen to make the rag rugs she made, singing a song to make his point, and Ellen giving up rag rugs for knitting), the guide said, "We like to say a prayer at this point in the tour." Well, by this time, all three of us were barely managing our extreme aversion to that room and to the legendary memories it carried. I felt again as if I could "loose it" easily. I was completely "creeped out" by that room and by the reverence and fondness with which that poor girl spoke of Ellen. She prayed a prayer that we all would continue to follow truth, and as she prayed, I prayed for her, that God would lead her into truth, out of bondage, and to Himself. The next stop was a meeting room where the church was officially organized and the Michigan Conference came into being. While we were there, I began asking our guide some questions. I was feeling pretty emotional, and I had a strong sense that God wanted to save this girl. I asked her if she ever wondered why sincere Christians aren't convicted of the Sabbath. She wasn't sure. I began to tell her how amazing Jesus is, and she said, "Yes, He is wonderful," in that agreeable, murmering way people have when they want to keep everyone happy. Then Richard spoke up and said, "You need to know who we are. We are former Adventists, and we have a magazine for people questioning Adventism. We studied the Bible, and we discovered that the Bible and Ellen Whitedon't agree," Then I talked some more about feeling emotional because this place represented all I had grown up in but had been replaced by Jesus. I told her (tearfully, I admit) that she reminded me of myself at her age, and I admired the integrity she pursued and her commitment and sincerity. Then our friend, who had walked to the pulpit Bible, turned to Hebrews 1:1-2 and said this verse is why she can no longer believe in Ellen White. She spoke powerfully to the girl, and then our friend asked if she could pray for her. I cannot explain this "knowing":, but I felt strongly that God is calling that girl out of Adventism, and we were supposed to say what we said sequentially in the way we did with her. She was sweet throughout, but I think what we said deeply impacted her in some way. We were spent by the time we left; and we all left with the conviction that we have to pray for that girl. We went to the graveyard where we saw the White's family grave stones (the White gravesite is a state historical monument now), and we took our pictures (the three of us) wearing "Follow the Greater Light" T-shirts. All in all it was an exhausting and impacting day. I cannot tell you how deeply grateful to God I am for literally pulling me out of that dark confusion! He IS calling people out, and He is giving all of us the opportunities to speak the truth in His time and way. More later--I really do love you all and am so grateful for this forum family and for our shared joy in Jesus. Oh, Francie, I will pray for you. And please KNOW that it's not wrong to feel relieved. This is so hard...and God will provide for you and for your mom in surprising ways. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1515 Registered: 6-2006  |
Colleen, Thanks so much for sharing your experiences on the tour! Your imagery was so clear and descriptive that I feel as if I'm right there with you. I enjoy these posts so much. May God continue to bless and keep you on this trip, and use you in a very special way.  Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7170 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, I continue to pray for all of you on the ToE. God is using each of you in a mighty way. The young lady will be added to my prayers. I know about that feeling of weightyness when being in an adventist place. It is NOT God's spirit. I thank God that He has you and Richard where you are. Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you, Colleen, for taking the time to describe your day--your feelings reminded me of a visit to the Haunted Mansion @ Disneyland! (We went once at Christmas time & the whole place was decorated with symbols of death intertwined with Christmas decorations.) Ugh! Don't think I could have gone on that tour--God gave you guys the courage to witness to that young woman. I know you, through God's Spirit, gave her something to shake her thinking. PS Thank you for your prayers & lots of prayers ascended to our Abba tonight so that you won't worry about your mom. It's hard, even tho you know she's being cared for, to be a long way away. He'll take good care of her! Remember, You're working for Him! PPS. Kellogg's preoccupation reminds me again of the movie/book "The Road to Wellville". Anybody seen it or read the book? Another interesting sidelight into SDA history. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1714 Registered: 4-2000  |
Colleen, Thank you for sharing your firsthand observation about SDA historical places in Michigan. I found it rather bizarre that Seventh-day Adventist leaders found it necessary to visit the Mormon historical village in Nauvoo, Illinois (as reported in the Adventist Review at that time) before building their own historical village in Battle Creek. Now Adventism and Mormonism share yet another commonality. On this special American day of celebrating our freedom as a nation, let us also remember the ultimate freedom we have found in Jesus as former Adventists. Truly, our awesome and sovereign God never goes on a rescue mission that fails. To God alone be all the glory! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1715 Registered: 4-2000 |
PS: Colleen, where did you get those "Follow the Greater Light" T-shirts? I would love to wear one as well. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7171 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dennis, It is Indy4now that made the t-shirts. You can order them from her on Facebook. Diana L (Message edited by Flyinglady on July 04, 2009) | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yes, I want a t shirt as well.. I will have to check with her and see if they got the other t shirt ready yet or not as I told her I would wait and just order them both at the same time. Francie | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 416 Registered: 2-2003  |
Great testimony Colleen! It seems like you asked for prayer at just the right time. I will keep on praying as your tour comes to mind. I have experienced that same creeped out feeling in certain Catholic and Orthodox churches in this part of the world. Keep fighting for the gospel! Adrian | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 417 Registered: 2-2003 |
P.S. Those T-shirts sound great. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 618 Registered: 2-2008 |
wow Colleen, I felt like I was right there with you on that tour. To me it would be so hard to see this young girl speaking about EGW reverently. I remember when I heard about my niece colporteuring last summer. It is such a deep feeling of turmoil in me. This has to be the same feeling people have when they see a friend or relative joining a cult or cult-like group. Did your tour guide ever ask about your shirts? Did she make the connection? I am also grateful today for having the freedom to openly worship our God. ~vivian p.s. If you're interested in a "Follow the Greater Light" t-shirt, you can contact me through e-mail (go to my profile info) or find me on FB. I'll look for you Dennis... then you can look at my photo album for God's Tee. I have a picture of the t-shirt there. Part of the proceeds from that shirt will go to LAM. That's my favorite part! | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2007 |
Hi :-) do you have any of the other t shirts done ? I would like to order a couple of the "greater light" ones and also a couple of the "when a man who is honestly..." also if they are done.. or should I go and pay for them first and then they will be done ? I can't wear black , but would like them in light to medium blue or rose, or sage green, or a medium purple or something... black makes me look deathly pale. It is so great that part of the proceeds are going to LAM as I keep intending to send them something to help out and just dont get it done,, so this way I can get the shirts and be helping LAM at the same time. :-) | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 526 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi Colleen, After reading what you wrote, I wonder why I'm nostalgic sometimes after the camp meetings in which I had participated in my youth. I had the feeling that I was fed with illusions that were perceived at that time as the real thing. What I'm missing is not as much the feelings of being there but the fact that I can't take the people with whom I shared those experience with me. That's what makes me nostalgic. I would be so happy if all those friends would abandon the illusions of adventism and join me on the way of freedom. Visiting old places it's like visiting locations where people sell ponzi-schemes to others. I'm still amazed of man's ability to be complacent with something that it's not real. Are you not tired of this fact, that usually almost all people you knew before leaving adventism are still in it, but God is, in his mysterious ways, calling others to freedom whom you didn't know? I wonder why God in his plans decided to cut us from our families and those whom we know and let us be prophets (heralds of good news) for those whom we didn't know. I would rather give my life for one minute having all my friends and relatives who are in adventism joining me in the liberty of the gospel, praising God for his freedom, than watching them going through the motions of a death religion. That woman by her false gospel ruined our childhood dreams by offering us a false gospel, a false hope in a false Christ and everything else. I wonder what would happen if the same people had first heard the true gospel instead of the adventist gospel. Would the outcome be more positive than it is in this present situation? I have a hard time accepting that there will be always enough people to keep the legend alive, instead of letting the house of cards that is adventism crumble to the ground. Enough innocent people, with high ideals, like the girl you encounter are prisoners of the false hopes this system promotes. In other situation, I would be so excited to hear faith stories from people who visited Ellen's grave and other historical sites of adventism. But these five or six years since I'm no longer a SDA seems like a century when looking back. It's like I went through a flood, with the old world passing away, being submerged under water, and the new world, while resembling the older, is fresh. Now I think that I'm excited to hear stories from former adventists who are visiting Ellen's grave and other historical adventist sites. Gabriel | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 876 Registered: 7-2007 |
Doesn't Ellen White's grave have an obelisk on it? And isn't an obelisk a monument to Aster (also Istar or Estartes), which is a false goddess that the word "Easter" comes from. (I think that's the same "queen of heaven" that the Israelites were worshiping in Jeremiah 7:18 -- "The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger.") That's rather appropriate for a false prophet, isn't it? Dianne |
