| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 821 Registered: 7-2007 |
I remember that back when I was an SDA, I would rationalize what was right or wrong in "keeping" the Sabbath and what was right or wrong when eating, etc. I noticed also, that other Adventists did the same. Some believed that it was alright to swim on the Sabbath, but not ride bicycles. My own family believed it was okay to wade but not to swim. We believed that it was fine to go hiking. (The Adventist church doesn't keep the Sabbath the way that Israel was commanded to keep it.) The Adventist church is a smorgasboard religion where everyone picks and chooses. What are the rest of y'all's experiences? | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 299 Registered: 4-2007 |
Adventists, living with the dissonance of ‘perfect obedience’ to the Law and the subconscious realization that it is impossible to do so, resort to rationalization. Through convoluted mental gymnastics “perfect obedience” morphs into self defined ‘good intentions’. My daughter has no problem with discussing the importance of the Sabbath while sipping a…Margarita, go figure. John | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 140 Registered: 8-2008 |
In my immediate family we could hike ourselves to the point of heat exhaustion but weren't allowed to step foot in a stream if we passed one, that would be having our own pleasure. I recall one time making a trip in the station wagon with our even more "holy" relatives. We went from Albuquerque to Santa Fe in the middle of July, no airconditioning, we stopped at a gas station and my cousin was allowed to have a Sprite because he had gotten sick from the heat...the rest of us..nothing. We were told it was Sabbath and we hadn't thrown up so we didn't need anything to drink. Sometimes when I think about it, I feel like this "holy" sda family actually made me hate what they stood for. My sisters, brother and I used to do "wordly" things when they came to visit just to show them we could be as sinful as they could be "holy". By worldly mind you, I mean stuff like watch TV and (for us girls) wear pants  BTW, anytime those kids parents weren't around, you couldn't knock them loose from the TV. We had to miss an entire Christmas once because it fell on Saturday, they got in their car and drove off and purposely stayed away until after sundown because they knew that way nobody would open any presents while they were gone. Just writing about this stuff makes me angry all over again  | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2009 |
My favorite argument SDAs use when I point out a contradiction that EGW has with the Bible is that not all of her ideas came from God. If that's the case, I guess we need another prophet to officially interpret the prophet. Ugh! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4948 Registered: 9-2006  |
Ak!!! You wore PANTS? Oh, it grows darker by the hour!! Probably any time you kids weren't around you couldn't knock the parents (if you could call them that) a loose from a TV. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 246 Registered: 3-2009 |
I have a thought on that Isaiah verse that is used by SDAs to forbid whatever they don't want to do on the Sabbath:
Please, think about what I'll say and let me know if I'm all wet or if it makes sense. Not even taking into account that it is a counsel given to Israel, "and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father", I think it may be one of those counsels related to the "perversion" of the law. Let me explain. God had given the law to Israel in a simple way: Rest on the Sabbath and have a convocation. Other minutiae were "no fire" and "cook whatever the day before." Now, the Israelites had added a lot of things to these requirements (not unlike the lot of things that SDAs add today.) I think that here the Lord through Isaiah is telling Israel, "Hey, look, go back and "rebuild the ancient ruins; raise up the age-old foundations; And you will be called the repairer of the breach, The restorer of the streets in which to dwell." Take away all those things that you have invented about the Sabbath, things that I have not commanded, "turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,"(those things that I have not commanded) "And call the sabbath a delight," (because of all those added things, the Sabbath have ceased to be a delight.) "And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word." In other words, this text is a call to the simplicity of the Sabbath, not a call to add more and more traditions and requirements as it has been used for. Of course, as we said at the beginning, it was a call to the Israelites. I does not apply to Gentiles. But I think that the call even tough it was to Israel, it was an opposite call to what SDAs understand the text to say today. River would say it this way: "keep it simple, stupid." Hec | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2008 |
River, I not only wore pants...they were boys pants!! I was a tomboy and hated dresses. When I was a little kid I thought it was unfair that boys could run around in the summer without a shirt on while us girls had to die of heat in our garb. One day (at these same cousin's house) I got fed up, I was about 7 yrs old, I climbed up a tree, threw down my shirt and refused to come down...lol I was a rebel from the get go I guess | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 543 Registered: 2-2008  |
I found out that if you're at the lake... you can swim on the Sabbath but not ski. Now if you're at someone's home on the Sabbath... swimming is not appropriate in their pool. Another incidence that bothered me was that the pathfinders were not allowed to go on a 10 mile bike ride to complete their honor on a Sabbath. Meanwhile, the kids who were involved in the Bible bowl competition were allowed to carry on their activities on the Sabbath... and get an honor for it!! ~vivian | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 824 Registered: 7-2007 |
The weird thing is that Adventists feel they'll be lost if they don't keep the Sabbath, yet they keep it so many different ways. None of them keep it the way the Lord commanded Israel in the covenant that He made between Himself and Israel. Now Jesus has brought in a new covenant (Hebrews 9:15-17) and the old one is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), but Adventists believe Ellen White rather than the Bible. The thing that grieves me is that so many Adventists cannot "put their weight down" on Jesus' sacrifice - not really, in their heart of hearts. If they think they have to DO something in order to be saved or stay saved, then they're partly depending on themselves instead of totally depending on Christ. I remember reading a story by the wife of Richard Wurmbrand who was a prisoner because of her faith in a communist prison camp. She said that she could tell when it was Sabbath, because then the Adventists who were prisoners would start screaming. They would scream because they were being beaten for not working on the Sabbath. It REALLY saddens me to think of people keeping the shadow (Colossians 2:16,17) which pointed to Christ instead of honoring Him, and being beaten for it. Here they were thinking that they were honoring the Lord when in reality they were unknowingly rejecting Him. Adventism lacks the Holy Spirit and the people don't know it. They keep singing "There shall be showers of blessing," in church, waiting for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, when He is already here. In hanging onto the old covenant they've rejected the new. When Jesus said that in the end, He will say to people, "I never knew you," this refers to this. Jesus knows people through the Holy Spirit indwelling them. Just like what He said to Nicodemus, that he had to be born of the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God. It really makes me sad that there are so many in all the false religions who will hear those words "I never knew you." | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 810 Registered: 12-2007  |
Akweavers, Traveling on the Sabbath?! ~Diana C. | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 142 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Mom..I never thought of that at all until I just read it from you!! You know this same family drove all the way up here to AK last summer but on the way had to stop and wait out the Sabbath before coming on?? What in blue blazes is that all about anyway?? I guess you can drive in the desert and half kill your kids to see the capital of NM.. but God forbid you travel for the purpose of getting someplace to visit a relative. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4950 Registered: 9-2006 |
really gives a whole new meaning to the words "The devil made me do it. " Don't it Ak? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4951 Registered: 9-2006 |
What do Adventist teach on 'Waiting for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?' I would like to know why that was mentioned? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2034 Registered: 8-2004  |
They teach that the latter rain hasn't happened yet, and that when the Holy Spirit does descend (again, in like manner to the 'early rain' of Pentecost) they will be given a boost in being able to keep the law. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 593 Registered: 10-2008 |
Mary, Is there such a thing as "latter rain" in scripture? I know Joel talks about the young men will dream dreams and the old men will ... I never thought of this before. Is there a scriptural indication that there will be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit like at Pentecost before Jesus comes. This was my SDA understanding ... That right before Jesus comes ... the spirit will be poured out and people will come into the "true" church - and know the Sabbath. Keri | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2035 Registered: 8-2004 |
Well, yes there is a scriptural basis for the latter rain. Joel prophesied about it like this: "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." Joel 2:23-32 Peter, in Acts, then tells us just when this outpouring will be (was): "But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy." Acts 2: 14-18 | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2036 Registered: 8-2004 |
It's my understanding then, open to correction, that the 'outpouring of the Holy Spirit' that some look forward to has already happened, and that the Holy Spirit is available for each of us for the asking. He is not 'doled out' stingily until some future dam break. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 594 Registered: 10-2008 |
Thanks, Mary. I had a haunch of what you wrote. Very different from SDA understanding. Keri | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9947 Registered: 12-2003  |
What a memory-invoking thread! The schizy Sabbath rules we all endured were just plain crazy-making! Yet, Keri, when I finally realized that Peter actually stated that Pentecost fulfilled Joel 2, I was amazed. I love your metaphor, Mary--"He is not 'doled out' stingily until some future dam break." Akweavers, I just feel so bad when I think about what you endured. I know you are not alone in these things. Asurprise is totally right about Adventism (note I am referring to the religion as a whole) not having the Holy Spirit, so likely many if not most members are not born again because they really don't know Jesus. There are so many rigidly "pious" members who find reasons to be cruel while calling it "honoring truth". The presence or absence of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 6:22-23) is the clue to whether one knows Jesus or not. Observance of commandments and rules is not evidence. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9949 Registered: 12-2003 |
What a memory-invoking thread! The schizy Sabbath rules we all endured were just plain crazy-making! Yet, Keri, when I finally realized that Peter actually stated that Pentecost fulfilled Joel 2, I was amazed. I love your metaphor, Mary--"He is not 'doled out' stingily until some future dam break." Akweavers, I just feel so bad when I think about what you endured. I know you are not alone in these things. Asurprise is totally right about Adventism (note I am referring to the religion as a whole) not having the Holy Spirit, so likely many if not most members are not born again because they really don't know Jesus. There are so many rigidly "pious" members who find reasons to be cruel while calling it "honoring truth". The presence or absence of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 6:22-23) is the clue to whether one knows Jesus or not. Observance of commandments and rules is not evidence. Colleen |
