| Author |
Message |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5010
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 10:03 pm: |     |
The Underlings
Chet wolford leaned over to try to adjust his shoe which had holes in them, he snagged his ragged coat on a piece of jutting steel and scratched his arm badly.
The steel sticking out of the concrete came away victorious with a piece of Chet Wolford’s hide.
The blood leaked out of the sleeve of his ragged coat and dripped on his ragged pants, but the hunger pangs did not allow him to feel the steel as it dug into his arm.
He straightened up and walked on, his shoe flopping because the sole had broken in the middle and his toes were trying their best to break free of such a disgusting situation.
Steve King, eat your heart out, here I come!
 River |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 238
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 8:39 am: | |
Whoa! Do you guys mean that it's not essential for salvation to understand Daniel & Revelation? Am I in some alternate universe? |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 525
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 9:51 am: | |
Do you actually think Adventists understand the books of Daniel and Revelation??. They dont even understand John 3:16 !!!!
Animal |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2060
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 9:58 am: | |
Seekinglight, nah, you didn't stumble on an alternate universe, you slipped out of one! |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 308
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:54 am: | |
River,
I'll make sure I read the story at noon.
Hec |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 309
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:55 am: | |
Essential for salvation to understand Daniel and Revelation? Maybe for EGW.
The way I understand the Bible now is the only essential for salvation is J. E. S. U. S.
Hec |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 147
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 7:21 pm: | |
quote:Pegg, It looks to me like your getting the picture.
Then why are we wasting so much time talking about the foibles of Ellen?
What we need to be teaching our SDA friends is that they're wrongly using the NT designation for "prophet".
If the prophet has no authority, then I don't have to get all bent out of shape about him/her...
...Neither should they.
This is freeing!
Focusing on the NT meaning of a prophet instead of Ellen herself, is a more objective issue.
Once one has established that there are (many) multiple prophets in the NT scenario
-- And That --
The prophets message is not inherently authoritative; it must be evaluated,
THEN one should be able to logically discuss the standard by which the evaluation may take place:The message cannot come from God if it contradicts Scripture. (Throw out the contradictory part.)
The message is known not to come from God if what is predicted doesn't come true.
The message must edify, encourage, comfort the brethren. Holy Spirit God is the final Arbiter of how the message should be applied in each believers life.
This Should Very Much Simplify The Ellen-Discussion.
Pegg |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 1:08 am: | |
TED...(The Ellen Discussion) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10061
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 9:16 am: | |
Well, objectively, that's true, Pegg. Part of the problem, however, is that Adventism believes that the OT covenant belongs to them. Because they are "spiritual Israel" and the law is theirs, the food laws are theirs, all the promises to Israel are theirs, they also believe that one "in the spirit of Elijah" will come to them because they, as spiritual Israel, will be the faithful remnant to welcome the return of Jesus.
Several years ago I heard quite an elaborate and articulate sermon by Dwight Nelson at Pioneer Memorial Church at Andrews U explaining that, like John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah to herald the first coming of Jesus, Ellen has come in the spirit of Elijah to herald the second coming.
To be sure, she totally misses the NT marks of a prophet, but when a whole group of people are not living in the New Covenant, they hold onto even a "prophet" they can compare to the old covenant. The good news, though, is that even the Old Covenant reveals her to be false.
Both the NT and the OT prove Ellen to be false.
I do like your list of three criteria which totally condemn her as a prophet, though! Excellent!
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 1:01 pm: | |
Pegg wrote:
quote:Focusing on the NT meaning of a prophet instead of Ellen herself, is a more objective issue.
Well, while the NT does focus on the New Covenant gift of prophecy (the gift) when discussing true prophecy, it does focus on false prophets (the person), when discussing the false. In fact, I don't think the NT ever discusses "false prophecy"--it only mentions "false prophets." So, for the false, we are to reject as false prophets those who do not pass the tests (such as Matthew 7, 1 John 4, etc.).
According to Jesus' words in Matthew 7, we will know false prophets by their fruits. If a supposed "prophet" is a false prophet, we are to reject them completely and not listen to anything they have to say.
Jeremy |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 148
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 3:54 pm: | |
Jeremy --
When I said:
quote:Focusing on the NT meaning of a prophet instead of Ellen herself, is a more objective issue.
It was my intent to question if focusing on the depiction of the Gift of Prophecy in the NT as distinctly different from that manifested in the OT might yield a more rational conversation.
It seems to me that arguing over The Prophet in the absence of establishing agreement regarding what the word "prophet" means is a recipe for impasse...(Which is exactly the result we repeatedly!)
You make an interesting point, however, that we are commanded to beware of false prophets, which I have to mull over a bit.
Paul advises us that we should evaluate the NT prophet's message:1 Corinthians 12:10 (NLT) - "He gives one person...the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit..."
1 Corinthians 14:29 (NLT) - "Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said." We know from Paul's discourse here in 1 Corinthians that the NC "prophet", in reality, is just a person with a message to give. The purpose of the message is to edify, encourage or comfort the congregation.
Paul advises his readers in Corinth to be eager to have this gift of strengthening, encouraging and comforting. (1 Cor. 14:1 & 39) Later he advises the folks in Thessalonica:1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (NLT) - "Do not stifle the Holy Spirit. Do not scoff at prophecies, but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good. Stay away from every kind of evil." In this advice, Paul does not appear to direct the Early Christians to treat someone who was found to misspeak as some sort of pariah. In fact, in the above advice to the Thessalonians he seems to directly advise testing out the words of the "prophet" but not being so harsh that the poor fellow will not want to offer another message when he feels called to do so. This would make sense if the "prophet" is providing strengthening, encouragement and comfort for the church, but is not proclaiming doctrinal changes or new revelations and is not considered to be authoritative.
The warnings of both Jesus and John regarding "false prophets" seem to have a different tenor altogether. At least in the case of those John is writing about, we are told that the Antichrist is setting up new doctrine (that Christ did not indeed come in the flesh).
Perhaps then, these are warnings regarding people who would attempt to usurp the role of an OT prophet in the Kingdom Age. Indeed, Paul himself has harsh words for those folks in Galatians, Philippians, Colossians who would seek to change the doctrines that had been laid down.
Just Thinking Out Loud -- Gotta Go Back To Work Now.
Pegg |
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