| Author | Message | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2008 |
I am trying to conceptualize what the righteousness of God is, apart from the law. Can anyone define "righteousness of God" through scripture? What is "the righteousness of God"? Is it His holiness? Or does it have something to do with faith in Christ? Or both? As an Adventist it has been drilled into my mind that righteousness is always equated with keeping the "law" (ten commandments specifically). And as we all know it is also equated with Jesus keeping the ten perfectly. Therefore (in SDA thinking), Christ's righteousness is perfectly keeping the ten commandments. I guess in my Adventist brain I have also equated the "robe of righteousness" with Jesus keeping the 10C perfectly. I DO realize this is wrong, wrong, wrong, interpretation. I do "get" that the righteousness of God is not related to the law (ten commandments or Mosaic law). Some scripture texts I'm wrestling with to fully understand the definition of "righteousness of God". "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it ----the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe." Rom. 3:21-22 "For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, 'The righteous shall live by faith.'" Rom. 1:17 "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor. 5:21 "I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith." Phil. 3:8b-9 Is the "righteousness of God" equated with faith in Jesus Christ? Or is the "righteousness of God" equated to a higher calling to holiness that could never be communicated through the ten commandments (i.e. such as motives, thoughts, etc.)? Or is the phrase "righteousness of God" different in different texts (meaning contexts)? I can't seem to define righteousness of God by the above listed texts. I've been wrestling with this concept in the back of my mind for some time now - since the FAF weekend. Thanks, Keri P.S. Light bulb moment, is the righteousness of God, Jesus and the gospel of grace? In other words, righteousness of God could read, "right with God" - which is through Jesus Christ's death and resurrection? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4403 Registered: 9-2006  |
Dearest Jesus, I wanted to take keyboard in hand (as you know, we just about quit using pencils) to let you know I love you and to answer your many letters just in case there’s some I didn’t get around to answering. Thanks for all of them. I read them often, I know you have been busy building new homes for saints and such, thank God the lines are not down, we can still talk person to person and it doesn’t seem to interfere with the construction. I just want to tell you of how proud I am of you in all that you have accomplished here. Forgive me for not writing sooner, I will continue to keep all your precious letters and to go over them often. Thanks again for all your gifts and letters, I know in your last letter you said you would be returning soon, I look forward to it, however there are some who are not yet acquainted with you and I want them to know what a friend you are so they can welcome your return also. I will try to tell them about you the best I can for I know that when you return all us Christians will be leaving at the same time to make the return trip with you. Our brother Paul said it would be in the twinkling of an eye so sounds like a hurried trip. Since it will be a fast trip I am already packed, actually I really don’t have any luggage and in one of your letters you said everything would be furnished anyway. I do have the beautiful robe you gave me when we first met, it doesn’t wear out or get dirty so I wear it around all the time, thanks so much for the robe as I didn’t have the money too purchase one, you took my tattered and dirty one I had on when I met you and got rid of it, so I really won’t be bringing any luggage. I checked around here and thought about bringing a few things, but there’s nothing really worth anything so it will just be me and my robe from here. The place you are preparing sounds nice, gold is hard to come by around here but one of your letters indicated you use it for pavement up there, we are still using asphalt! It stinks when you heat it up but it will do for now. I mentioned several people to you the other day about my concerns for them and I know you are concerned too and will take care of the matters. You said to call anytime so I will make full use of that. I will close for now and mail this, we don’t need stamps we got a thing called E-mail, things sure have changed, all I have to do is press this little button and off it goes. I am sharing my letter to you with special friends this morning. All my Love, say hello to Dad and Mom and Sis, also greet Paul and all the rest for me.  River John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1781 Registered: 10-2002  |
Hi Keri, Although it's not really Hebrew or Greek, I thought you might appreciate the Japanese character for "righteousness" (or "just" or "justice"). We used that character for my son's middle name, Tsuyoshi: http://fulfilledinjesus.blogspot.com/2007/01/his-name-is.html The top part of the character is "lamb", and the bottom part is "me". "Lamb" over "me" = "righteousness" Bless you in Jesus! In Jesus! Ramone | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2008 |
. . . Excuse my senior moment, indoctrinated SDA fogginess . . . The Righteousness of God is Jesus? Right? Have you pulled apart Romans 3:21-22 before on the forum? Thanks, Ramone - your little boy is very cute! And his middle name is wonderful! As always, thanks River, for the "grounding". Keri | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2641 Registered: 10-2004  |
Keri, The "righteousness of God" refers to His righteousness (not ours) which He has "imputed" (not "imparted") to us (credited to our account), through faith in Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:21 is saying that our sin was imputed to Christ, so that His righteousness could be imputed to us. Jeremy | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 202 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jeremy, I know this is probably a mute point or such but what is His righteousness? Since His righteousness is separate from the law . . . In other words is His righteousness equated with holiness. I am trying to categorize it (reframe it) in my mind. Is God's righteousness equated with His holiness . . . In other words is God's righteousness far beyond the 10C and includes thoughts, emotions, motives . . . etc. Or am I trying to put God's righteousness in human terms/categories. . . . We could never keep the law and definitely we could not have a righteousness even near His righteousness - we are born sinners/depraved (Romans). I hope you can see I'm trying to reframe righteousness with something outside of the standard SDA category of the 10 Commandments. I may need to do a personal study on the topic of righteousness in scripture. Thanks for your help and if you have any other insights that would help this paradigm shift away from the standard 10C I'm always glad . Keri | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9560 Registered: 12-2003  |
Keri, Romans 4 has cemented this idea of God's righteousness profoundly for me. First, the righteousness of Jesus is His sinless perfection. It is his alive spirit, never having been tainted with distrust. He did not have to be born again. He was born alive by the Holy Spirit and completely without either sinful deeds or a dead-from-sin spirit. He was one with God—He WAS God, but as a human on earth, his human spirit was one with God because it was ALWAYS alive and in complete connection and communion with God. As you read through Romans 4 and 5, it becomes clear that the "righteousness" with which God credits us is connected to our being justified as a gift of grace through faith. So, at the foundation, Romans 5:1 describes the cause and effect of having God's righteousness: Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." So "righteousness" in its practical effect is our having "peace with God", and we acquire this peace with God by being justified by faith. Notice the law is nowhere in view here. Faith counted as Righteousness Going back to Romans 4:3, Paul takes us back to the first overt statement in the Bible of how God justifies sinners—Genesis 15:6: "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to Him as righteousness." That's the simplest explanation of "righteousness" that I know. Abraham, who lived before the law, encountered God before he was given the sign of circumcision. God promised him seed, land and blessing, and the promise for natural offspring was totally "impossible". But Abraham laid aside his natural understanding, his logical disclaimers, his scientific analysis, and chose to believe that if God said He would do it, He would do it. This "belief" in God is what God credited to him as righteousness. It wasn't any "acting in faith" or "pursuit" of God's will or any offering or function: it was simply his "believing" in God that God credited to Abraham, and Abraham was declared righteous by God Himself. Romans 4:18-21 further explains this belief—this faith that Abraham had. In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, "SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE." Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform." So Abraham looked at all the evidence, and there was not a shred of evidence to suggest that he and Sarah could possibly have a son. But for years Abraham chose to believe that if God promised it, He could do it, and he "grew strong in faith, giving glory to God". He did not "waver in unbelief". Romans 4:13 further describes this righteousness of God that is apart from law (Romans 3:21) which Abraham had: For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. Righteousness of (not "by") Faith Notice that identification of the righteousness of God: "the righteousness OF faith". The righteousness of Jesus, the righteousness of God apart from the law, is simply the actual FAITH a person has in God's faithfulness to do what He says He will do. Throughout the history of the world, God has given humanity increasing revelations of what He is doing for us, and it is our faith in Him that God credits to us as righteousness. When we place our faith in God and surrender our "right" to be in control of our "worthiness", we are justified from our sin at that moment and sealed with the promised Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14). It has absolutely nothing to do with the law. The law's function was to convict people of their sin, to make them realize they needed saving. It was never to help them become moral. What God sees in Jesus, He sees in us When we are counted righteous by God, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and our lives are literally "hidden with Christ in God" (Col 3:3). We are transferred from being "in Adam" to being "in Christ" (1 Cor 15:22). God looks at us in Christ—and He doesn't "see" us first: He sees Jesus first. God treats us and sees us as being hidden "in Christ". If you put a piece of paper inside a book, whatever happens to the book, happens to the paper. You may never even know the paper is in the book, but you can't find the paper without handling the book. If the book is thrown down or place on a shelf, so is the paper. If it falls into water, so does the paper. If it is treasured, so is the paper. We are the paper; Jesus is the book. God treats us as He treats Jesus when we are born again, because we are hidden in Him. His life is in us, and we are in Him. We "become" (2 Cor 5:21) the "righteous of God", and whatever God sees Jesus to be, He now sees us to be. God's view of us, when we are born again, does not depend upon our flesh or tendencies to sin. God's view of us depends on whether or not we are alive in Christ. If we are, we not only "have" but "have become" the righteousness of Christ. If we are not spiritually alive, we are dead. God does not see us "in Christ". His wrath rests on us (John 3:36). Fruit of the Spirit: Evidence of being hidden in Christ When we are hidden with Christ in God, we will produce the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23). This fruit is the evidence of our spiritual life. It underlies "true obedience"—which ultimately is surrendering and offering to God every aspect of ourselves and our lives: our beliefs, pleasures, dreams, desires, "shoulds and oughts", EVERYTHING. Romans 12:1 says our reasonable act of worship is offering ourselves as living sacrifices. The righteousness of Christ is simply being completely covered by Jesus and being credited with His perfection and goodness. It is completely apart from the law (Romans 3:19-22; Philippians 3:9). The Philippians text says this righteousness is not "of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." It IS Jesus' righteousness—not something we "become" So Keri, the "righteousness of God" is not defined by behavior. It is defined by spiritual life. It is credited to us when we believe that God will do what He said: forgive us of all our sin and give us eternal life when we place our faith—which itself is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9)—in the shed blood of Jesus. When we acknowledge our intractable sinfulness and admit we need a Savior and bow before the Lord Jesus, allowing His blood to cleanse us as He promised it would, be are credited with righteousness. At that moment we are imputed with Christ's own righteousness. It has nothing to do with us, with behavior, with commitment, with a decision to be good. It is entirely a gift from God which He credits to us when we release our doubt and control and allow the faith He gives us to embrace Jesus for our life. Holiness means "set apart". Our "holiness" is a result or consequence, of our having been declared righteous. We never "become" righteous. We are CREDITED with righteousness--totally justified and hidden in Christ. God sees Jesus when He sees us. Jesus' righteousness (sinlessness and perfect faith in the Father) is literally what God credits to us. The "Righteousness of God" or "of Christ" is not a certain "type" of obedience or attitude. It literally IS Jesus' own divine perfection. It is Jesus' own nature and character that God credits to us. As Gary Inrig has said, when God declares us righteous, he doesn't just wipe out our debt. He both wipes out our debt AND credits our account with wealth that comes entirely from Him--from outside of us. The righteousness of God is God's own gift to us, and it not only erases our guilt but gives us eternal "rightness with God" and the wealth of Jesus' eternal inheritance. Does this make any sense? Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2008 |
WOA! I mean woa! You explained this in a way I "heard" - praise God! Tears were in my eyes as I read . . . It has helped to reframe my understanding "totally". I'm really quite speechless. I will read and reread the texts you have quoted and Romans 4 and 5 tonight . . . My, oh, my . . . how my understanding has been so twisted under Adventism . . . What an AWESOME God! Would Heb. 11:6 fit with what you have written, "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." God gives us faith and with that faith we choose to believe that God is faithful to His promises, that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins and rose again, we repent . . . and then we are credited as righteous (I really liked the paper in the book example!). And we have PEACE with God - woa! The righteousness of God is not about behavior or doing or anything like that . . . yeh, woa! Thank you for taking the time to post this, it was extremely helpful . . . Keri | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2008 |
Sorry, I just had to post again . . .
When you say it wasn't an "act" or "pursuit", "offering" or "function" . . . Is that what you mean by making the distinction righteousness of God and not by God . . . are you meaning that when it is "by" faith that is an "act", "pursuit", "offering", etc. While "of" indicates same substance - intimately tied together . . . righteousness of God. Spiritual "aliveness" and God go together. Yeh, complete paradigm shift when you said, "the righteousness of God" is not defined by behavior, but by spiritual life . . . As you know in Adventism it is "totally" defined by behavior . . . so I'm going to have to really meditate on the fact that it is about spiritual life - a spirit that is alive and in communion with God and it is all because of God's gift of grace and faith to us. As you said at peace with God. I'm praying this paradigm shift will sink deep down. Thank you again and thank you Jesus! Keri | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2642 Registered: 10-2004 |
Keri, Are you saying that in Adventism you were taught that the "righteousness of God" was actually our righteousness--our "righteous" behavior, acts, obedience, etc. that we needed to attain to? Instead of it being God's righteousness that He has in Himself, which He credits to us as a free gift? Jeremy | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 418 Registered: 1-2006  |
Keri This is a great thread! "The dispute between justification by the infusion of Christ's righteousness and the imputation of his righteousness is no tempest in a teapot. It makes all the difference in the world whether the ground of my justification rests within me or is accomplished for me. Christ fulfilled the law for me and gained the merit necessary for my justification. This is ground not only of my justification, but also of my assurance of salvation. If I must wait until I cooperate with the righteousness of Christ infused within me, to the degree that I become inherently righteous, I despair of ever attaining salvation. This is not gospel or "good news"; it is bad news." From the book What is Reformed Theology? bu R.C. Sproul. Bob | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 419 Registered: 1-2006 |
Keri This is a link that helps clarify where adventism departed from the gospel. http://www.presenttruthmag.com/7dayadventist/shaking/2.html Bob | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 420 Registered: 1-2006 |
Here lies the whole conflict of the Reformation. Whereas Rome (THINK ADVENTISM!!) taught that justification means to make the believer just by the work of inner renewal in his heart, the Reformers taught that justification is the declaration by God that the believer is just on the grounds of the righteousness of Christ alone, which is outside the believer. The above is a quote from Paxton's Shaking of Adventism. Couldn't resist! Bob | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 512 Registered: 7-2005 |
Colleen May I ask for further clarifications? You made some good statements about imputation, Christ's righteousness credited to us, imputed to us, not a quality inherent in us, not the transformation that God is working in us, but something that God did for us in Christ,
In the dispute with the Romano Catholic church, Luther used the latin expression "extra nos", outside of us, in order to draw a clear picture of what is righteousness by faith in contrast with righteousness by works. Righteousness by works is something acquired by us, something that pertains to us, something that is inherently ours, something that is obtained by assenting and cooperating with God's grace poured in our hearts. Luther and the reformers made clear that the righteousness by faith is Christ's righteousness outside of us, a "justititia aliena", an alien righteousness to which we have no part and it is a quality that does nothing to do with us, but totally with Christ's life, death and resurrection . His perfect conduct, his perfect obedience to God's law and his death for our sins completely satisfied God's righteous requirements in our behalf and by the naked hand of faith we receive it and is counted to us like we had actually obeyed God and died for our sins. It is imputed, counted, as if we obeyed, as if we died, as if we fulfilled all that God required from us. The other reformers developed this thought further and they understood the necessity to eliminate any possible trace of introducing ourselves in the equation. The Westminster Confession of Faith says
In this definition faith itself is excluded as the object of imputation, because faith itself, even if it is God's gift, it is still something worked in us, inherent to us, distinct from Christ's righteousness to which we don't contribute anything. God imputes to us, counts to us, not something we did, or obtained by cooperating with his grace (the Romano Catholic understanding of how the faith operates), but what Christ accomplished in his life on this earth as a human in order to represent us before God as the second Adam, taking our place and doing what we were supposed to do. And his work in our behalf we received by faith, and it is transferred to our account as if it is our accomplishment. Faith is the instrument by which we take hold of the righteousness of Christ, not the thing itself that is imputed to us. I don't think we have a basic disagreement at this point, since you affirmed the imputation of Christ's righteousness, the confusion appears when I'm trying to harmonize what appears to be an internal contradiction between the concept of righteousness of Christ imputed and the other concept of faith being imputed to us. Gabriel | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jeremy, I'm sorry my post and "verbage" is unclear. Probably, because I have been unclear most of my life (lol) in regards to the pure gospel of grace  . As I am "coming-out-of" Adventism (many years - I'm not telling my age ) I realize that paradigm shifts take time - wish it could be on "microwave" time. To answer your question
In Adventism I understood the righteousness of God to be equated with God. My thoughts were centered around behavior, though. God or Jesus kept the 10C and that was the "righteousness of God". I saw righteousness as very behaviorally oriented. Therefore, the righteousness of God was that God acted right. God never broke any of His laws. This is true, but not the "whole" truth. Righteousness is so much BIGGER than behavior, which is what I was understanding from Colleen's post. Righteousness has a component that deals with perfect communion with an Almighty God. And because of Christ's death for my sins (I make this personal) and Christ's resurrection I can now have communion with an Almighty God - my spirit is alive. Christ's perfect communion with the Father is now possible for me (John 17:20-23). Christ's righteousness is now mine - because I am hid in Him (the example of the paper in the book). What is my part? I think this is what we tend to ask? Is it my faith? As Gabriel seems to refer to above (I may be interpreting his post wrongly - so forgive me)? Really, I have no part . . . including faith. "Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God. 2 Cor. 3:4,5; ESV I believe Romans 3:10-18 clearly shows that none are righteous AND no one seeks for God. BUT there comes a point of decision - i.e. belief. Rom. 4:3, that Colleen mentions. Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. What I can decipher from this is that we were created in God's image (Gen. 1:27) and with that image comes the volition of choice - that is what distinguishes us above the animals. So at some point God gives us what we need to make the "choice" to believe. Then WE either choose or don't. I am not a "full on Calvin" - nor am I a "full-on" Arminian . . . as in other threads posted I would be a Calvminan. I don't fully understand it and I could argue it all day long. Both Arminianism and Calvinism seem true. But when it comes down to it - I am saved by Grace Alone, through Faith Alone, and it is not of my own doing. Whew, I think this helped me to put it on paper to solidify it in my own mind. I can be totally "off" - but this is my understanding at this point. Sidelight: Faith . . . I am now looking at framing or reframing the word "faith". "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". (Heb. 11:1). Rom. 4:3 says, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness". Abraham was convicted that God would make "good" on His promises to him. Yet, the promises were impossible ("not seen"). But Abraham was convinced. Romans 4:20-21 seems to indicate that Abraham didn't weaken in faith - BUT His faith did "grow". We know Abraham really blew it - He asked God if Elizar could be the son of promise, he lied about Sarah, He had Ishmael, . . . but Abraham's faith "grew" to the point where He was willing to sacrifice Isaac - because he "believed" God was able to raise Isaac from the dead (Heb. 11:19). Faith is given to us - and it can grow. Faith is not "one level/power" but can grow . . . God reveals Himself to us and our faith is tested. We either believe God will be true to Himself and that God will follow through on His promises or we make choices that indicate we don't fully "believe" God will follow through on His promises. What I just wrote in the above paragraph has no reflection on "salvation" - meaning that faith doesn't save us or the strength of our faith - but rather we either believe (the volition of choice) that Jesus is Lord and Savior or we don't (1 John 5:11,12) and when we believe we are immediately transferred from spiritual death to spiritual life and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. Ok, I need to stop . . . and feel free to correct me or challenge my thinking . . . But all I can say is I am so in love/awe/wonder of this God who has redeemed me. Keri | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 421 Registered: 1-2006 |
Keri I brought a really good book on imputation (of righteousness) with me to work today so I could share a couple more things, but . . . I gave the book to my accountant whose son is thinking about this same stuff. The book is By James R. White (not Ellen's husband) and is entitled The God Who Justifies. I'll order another copy, and if this discussion is still going in a couple weeks I'll share then. You have started a great discussion! Bob | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 208 Registered: 10-2008 |
Bob, Thanks so much for your input too and for the link you posted! I haven't had a chance to read it yet - but I will plan on reading it tonight. I too look forward to whatever you can share. Blessings, Keri | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2008  |
Keri, You said: What is my part? I think this is what we tend to ask? Is it my faith? As Gabriel seems to refer to above (I may be interpreting his post wrongly - so forgive me)? Really, I have no part . . . including faith. "Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God. 2 Cor. 3:4,5; ESV I believe Romans 3:10-18 clearly shows that none are righteous AND no one seeks for God. Please forgive me as I stumble over my words but I'll give it a shot. Yes there is NOTHING we can do it is ALL God. He saved us, He gave us the faith to believe, He continues to give us faith, the strength the wisdom etc. Our part it's to walk the path He has set for us. We may stumble, but He'll pick us up. Sometimes the road is muddy and we can't even walk we just have to stand (See Ephesians 6 and the armor of God). Christians will grow but it's God that does the growing. I'm horrible at examples but I'll try this here. As a father when my children became my children they became mine period. They don't have to do anything to gain my love of favor they just have it. Oh yes I get angry when they disobey or refuse to listen but nothing can separate them from my love (Rom 8:38). My human example falls short of God but here is another example let's say my children fall into a period of disobedience I may allow them to bear the brunt of their disobedience (i.e. if they refuse to wear warm clothing when it's cold they'll have to suffer through the bad temperature) or if they refuse to go to sleep-they'll be tired the next morning and still have to go about their day. I'm not counting their sins and then waiting to sit on my judgement throne and toss them out and not call them my children-they are mine-period. As they age and I feed them, teach them, correct them, nurture and love them they grow. My goal as a parent is to do all the above (forgive my comparison to sanctification) to prepare them for for adulthood and heaven(and again forgive my comparison to glorification). As they grow they become more and more like me (unfortuantely they pick up some of my bad habits as well as good) but it one of the things that touches my heart is when other people notice how they act like me. My daughter is not mine biologically and I am in the process of adopting her but it is amazing how she acts like me in so many ways. Watching my children grow I see so many comparisons as to the work of God in us. As you grow and sort this out I really want to recommend a great teacher and ministry to you John Macarthur of Grace to you www.gty.org is an excellent teacher. He gives away a lot of materials-especially to people who contact the ministry for the first time. A cd that I would recommend is Answering the Key Questions about the octrine of Election. I am not good at articulating it yet but that CD has been very important in understanding and clarifying in my mind that it is ALL GOD and has also helped me in reconciling Calvanism and Arminianism points in light of the Bible you can contact them at the website above or just send an email with your contact info to letters@gty.org Enoch | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9571 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree, Gabriel. No, faith is not imputed to us, but righteousness (which is never ours) is imputed to us on the basis of God's grace by faith. It just helps me to see this concept as the NASB expressed it in Romans 4:13: "For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith." My staunch historic Adventist relatives with a healthy seasoning of the "1888 Message" talk endlessly of "righteousness by faith" and of having "the righteousness of Christ". They refuse to be pinned down in a conversation, but it is clear that to them "righteousness by faith" equals becoming more and more "perfect" or "sinless", keeping the commandments better and better—all facilitated by faith. Thus, Righteousness by faith. In other words, by faith in Christ's "merits" [whatever they understand them to be], and by the power of the Holy Spirit (which they would argue Jesus also "used" to keep the commandments), they, too, will accomplish having the righteousness of Christ. In other words, they will reflect the same godly perfection Christ had—only it will be they themselves who will actually begin to have the same type of righteousness Jesus had. So to an Adventist, "righteousness by faith" is "code" for having the faith to believe (however one drums that up!!) that by the "power of the Holy Spirit" I will keep the commandments of God. So my commandment-keeping, then, is evidence that I have the faith to be righteous. I become righteous "by" exercising my faith and thus keeping the law. Romans 4, however, describes not this "righteousness by faith" but the "righteousness of faith". Romans 4:9b states, "Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness." This text describes what I mean. My "faith" is not "right belief" which leads to "right behavior". Rather, true faith is completely from outside of myself, and when I have faith in what God has said He will do through Jesus, that faith is credited to me as righteousness. "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness (Romans 4:6). These texts clarify the difference between the Adventist "code" righteousness by faith and the biblical reality of faith credited as righteousness or the righteousness of faith. Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 209 Registered: 10-2008 |
Ok, One question - well, maybe several . . . and maybe I'm beating a "dead horse" and it is just semantics. Is faith given to us by God? Or is faith something we have? I guess I've been thinking it is given by God. What is meant by "imputed"? Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, but faith is not? Then how does faith come into the picture? And maybe I don't have a "full" understanding of "imputed". If I'm to be really candid and open . . . I DO understand that salvation is TOTALLY God's gift to me, but my Adventist indoctrination and thinking always has a leaning towards what is my part . . . Therefore, my question above about faith . . . Wish I could just have the SDA tapes and indoctrination erased - but I guess it is good that I wrestle through the paradigm shift. God knows it is what I need - the wrestling . . . In other words - I don't take things at face value as I did in Adventism - whatever the teacher/preacher/conf. personel says I would believe - rather now I make this paradigm shift "my own" (ingrained deep) through questioning, wrestling, and praying - and God's good grace of watching over it all . . . Keri |
