| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1598 Registered: 4-2000  |
Appallingly, Dr. John H. Kellogg (first Medical Director of the General Conference) is remembered as finding pleasure in seeing the discomfort and embarrassment of his patients while giving them yogurt enemas twice daily at the Battle Creek Sanitarium. What a dreadful historical nugget! By the way, I have his 1887 (large quarto) book, in 244 illustrated pages, entitled "Sunbeams of Health and Temperance." It includes information on fashionable mutilations, natural history of a worm, the road to ruin, and more. The University of Michigan library has expressed an interest in obtaining it. However, I am not giving it away nor selling it. This 122-year-old book, in fair condition, is the oldest collection in my library. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2008 |
works perfection effort (remionds me of the "stern effort" quotes.) self end times hydrotherapy home remedies, (yeah, they can be good, but not when you have an ear infection, the onion compress isn't working, and EGW said drugs were bad, so no tylenol, let alone abx) Life of Christ (remiends me of how I was taught that since Christ was perfect, it was possible for us to be, and anything less you'd go to hell) Eary to bed early to rise..(I thought staying up later than 9, or sleeping past 7 was somehow morally wrong. I'm NOT a morning person, and I still feel guilty if I'm up past 9, which I almost always am.) I'm sure there are tons more I'm not remmbering offhand. My mom has the back to eden book. Some scary stuff in there. And my parents did get into the whole enema craze, but luckily, it was short lived. | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2006 |
Lots of people have mentioned the Back to Eden book. It has made me wonder where all that stuff came from. It certainly wasn't from Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Back to Ellen White would have been a more appropriate title. I'm wondering why "plan of salvation" elicited such strong memories. We talked about sharing "the plan of salvation" lots at my pre SDA church. It meant, did you share the gospel. Once again we have words that mean different things to Adventists and nonadventists. Anyone care to explain? | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2008 |
Joyfulheart, Refer to R.I.D. thread . . . my understanding of plan of salvation was the numbered list . . . I never saw it as sharing the gospel of Jesus death and resurrection . . . wow, thanks joyfulheart for pointing that out . . . mainstream Christians use a phrase and SDA's have a totally different meaning. Eye-opener. JRT | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 100 Registered: 1-2007 |
I think my current pet peeve is "Sunday keeping church"...as in oh, they attend a sunday keeping church....I mean, really, do you ever hear an sda talking to a non sda and use this term?? Only between sda's. Why? Because a non sda would say "HUH?". Unless maybe they are talking to a mormon, who do view Sunday as the sabbath. No fellow christian I know, who attends a church on a Sunday, is a Sunday "keeper". My husband still uses this term and I practically whack him every time he does....he knows darn well they are not "Sunday keepers"...but thats what happens when you have sda engraved from birth. Maybe you can help me with this term: soul-winning ??? Is this an sda term? This is used heavily by amazing facts, hence my disdain for it. It sounds like competitive christianity...and what exactly, as an sda evangelist, are you winning the souls from...? Sunday keeping churches...? grrr. | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 101 Registered: 1-2007 |
OK, so I did a quick google search of soul-winning...and see it has a biblical basis, and used in non-sda circles. However, I just don't like it. Maybe it's the amazing facts tie-in, maybe I hate the term "winning" because it has competitive tones, I don't know. It's just when I hear it I think of some slick AF salesman "soul-winning" that poor lost Sunday keeper. Bleh. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2601 Registered: 10-2004  |
"Heavenly Father" is sometimes uncomfortable (although I'm sure this is much more uncomfortable for former Mormons, as they use it ALL the time--see how many of the top results are Mormon at this Google search!) "Godhead" Jeremy | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 809 Registered: 7-2005  |
Just to take a slightly different tack here, I wonder if ingrained cultic doctrine has ruined these words for you. Bliss Comfort Rest Assurance Victory Fellowship Divine Rock of my salvation Everlasting arms Holy One Purpose Charity Mercy Forgiveness Kindness Balm Sacrifice Healing Praise Born again Almighty Omnipotent Omnipresent Safe Gifts Faith I was not raised in Adventism, but rather in mainstream Protestantism. These words have always given me strength and comfort. I mourn to think these concepts would be turned into pain for any of you because of Adventism. I do know that during my 16 years in Adventism, I didn't hear these words very much. Now that I'm back in the Presbyterian church, I'm hearing them again, thankfully. One of the items in our worship service each Sunday is "The Prayer of Confession and Assurance." The Pastor will pray to God on behalf of the congregation, confessing our sins and shortcomings. But then he thanks God for forgiving us through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. It's so comforting. Honestwitness | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9457 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, Jeremy and HonestWitness, you have hit on some significant triggers for me. Jeremy, I share your discomfort with "Heavenly Father", although I also know Mormons would have a worse time even than we do. And I almost viscerally react to and avoid "Godhead" now. I know it's a perfectly OK word, but Adventists have used it in the past to the exclusion of "Trinity" because Adventists don't believe (and in the past were openly opposed to) the orthodox concept of the Trinity. Adventists believe in "the heavenly trio" or "the three worthies of Heaven"...and they don't believe, at the bottom line, in One Being expressed in three persons. Most Adventists I have quizzed on the subject will not admit that Jesus is of the "same substance" as the Father. They believe each person of the "Godhead" is fully God--but that each is not possessed of ALL of God's attributes. Each "contains" parts of God's attributes. Therefore, I can hardly even use the word "Godhead" anymore, and I choke when it occurs in songs or if I hear someone use it. HonestWitness, Yes! Rest, Victory, Fellowship...these all have tainted implications. "Victory" is especially loaded for me. I generally have responses of concern over my own "victory over sin" and have to remind myself that "victory" is about Jesus' victory over death and sin, not mine! Born again is also one that was deeply warped. In fact, every word in your list has a new meaning for me now. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2603 Registered: 10-2004 |
How about "Fellowship Hall"?  And "Potluck"! Ugh.... I think those are especially uncomfortable to me because those places/events were especially oppressive, because they were honoring "doctrines of demons" regarding food (1 Timothy 4:1-5). Jeremy | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 810 Registered: 7-2005 |
Colleen, did you ever sing the song, "Victory in Jesus"? I sang it when I was a Charismatic. I still love it. Oh, victory in Jesus, My Saviour forever. He sought me and bought me With His redeeming blood. He loved me, e'er I knew Him, And all my love is due Him. He plunged me to victory Beneath the cleansing flood. Honestwitness | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2008 |
Honestwitness. I love that song. I thought of it as soon as I saw Victory on your list. So that is good. For once I didn't think of the Adventist use first! I liked your list. Some had some negative connotions, others really woudln't have meant much to me. Actually, assurance use to be a negative, becasue I was taught we weren't supposed to be assure d of anything. Don't think I remembered it for my list, but I do have a problem with plan of salvation. It makes me think of 1844, judgment,etc. | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2008 |
Can someone tell me something about the Heavenly Father one? Apparently I haven't learned the way it should be without the sda slant. Thank you in advance. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2008 |
Akweavers, I'd be interested in the Heavenly Father one too . . . Also, I think trinity, and "Godhead" still needs to be unpacked for me . . . I read the proclamation article on Jesus back in 2007 and still am trying to wrap my mind around the finer points of it all . . . Let me put something out there and see if this is scriptural or another SDAism . . . I understood the trinity like this: Analogy - three forms of water . . . One is liquid, one is ice, and one is steam . . . each has a different purpose, but made of the same "material". So the trinity (Godhead - sorry, just need to clarify the SDAism) is three different entities, but having the same substance . . . Then I have this other drilled into me (after taking Doctrine of the Holy Spirit from our dear seminary) that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person . . . the trinity is three seperate persons in One (whatever the One refers too) Man, this gets tricky . . . JRT | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 102 Registered: 8-2008 |
I have heard that three seperate people acting as one is how you should view the "godhead" But then, a SDbaptist said it is three aspects of the same person? I stopped thinking about it before my head exploded  I don't know, I can't read the book of Revelations even and get anything new out of it. All I can "see" is the sda way and I am sure that is the wrong way. I want to be able to have a clue about what it really means but I have had the sda stuff so drilled into my head...it is tough. (Message edited by akweavers on March 01, 2009) | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 811 Registered: 7-2005 |
I just thought of another one that gives me the heebie jeebies: Pen of inspiration *sigh* Honestwitness | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1599 Registered: 4-2000 |
Jesus was the first on record to take prayer and make it a personal discourse with God. Jesus, who spoke Aramaic, used the Aramaic word Abba best translated Dad or Papa. We can almost hear the cry of alarm from the disciples and see the looks of astonishment on their faces: "You don't mean it, Jesus. You can't be serious! We're not even allowed to speak the name of God aloud. We don't even call him Father, much less Dad!" Paul tells us in Romans 8:14-17 that because of our adoptive relationship with God through Christ, we become joint heirs with Christ. It is only because we are in Christ and Christ is in us that we have the privilege of addressing God as our Father and of approaching him in a filial relationship. Martin Luther once said that if he could just understand the first two words of the Lord's prayer, he would never be the same again. Calling God "Father" without the proper credentials of sonship is an act of extreme presumption and arrogance. Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on March 01, 2009) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1600 Registered: 4-2000 |
Honestwitness, The phrase "from the pen of inspiration" brings back regrettable memories of when I frequently used such terminology, in my sermons to a receptive SDA audience, to further authenticate my being cool and within the system. Ashamedly, I still remember how special it made me feel to utter those spurious words. Yes, Adventists certainly talk differently than others with their many in-house cliches. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2608 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi Jrt! You wrote:
No, see, that's the problem. What you described would be an SDA definition. Even those SDAs who will say that the three persons of the Trinity are of the "same substance" (like Colleen mentioned above) don't have the same definition in mind as the Christian definition. The SDA definition, as you described above that you were taught, would just simply be that there are three divine Persons (Beings) who are all made of the "stuff"/material/substance. That is Tritheism (three gods). But when Christians say "same substance," they mean the same "Being." (For example, different translations of the Nicene Creed translate the same word as "substance" and "being" in different English translations.) God is one indivisible spirit being. The "three forms of water" analogy is an analogy that is used outside of Adventism also, but it is not a very accurate analogy and can certainly be used by anti-Trinitarians (such as Adventism, to teach their Tritheism). Here is what Christian theologian Wayne Grudem has to say about that analogy in his Systematic Theology:
The Christian definition of the Trinity is that God is one indivisible Being who exists as three distinct, but not separate, persons. Here is a description of the Christian definition:
Here is a previous thread on the forum from a few months back which might be helpful with some other links/references: http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/8139.html?1230474793 Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on March 01, 2009) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1436 Registered: 5-2007  |
Jrt, A problem with your analogy is that there are four states of matter, not just three. They are; solid, liquid, gas and plasma. (A plasma exists when a material, including water, is fully ionized.) In the latest Proclamation, Stephen Pitcher in his lead article 'Is This Word Clear', gives an excellent explanation of the orthodox doctrine of the trinity versus what Adventist theologians teach. http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2009/1/stevepitcher.html Phil (Message edited by philharris on March 01, 2009) |
