| Author | Message | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2008 |
Conflict of the Ages (Sorry, this turns my stomach even as I write it - but I'm not sure exactly why?) Let me try this word/phrase exercise again. I'd like to "unpack" (in other words see rightly the truth and expose the lies) behind these words/phrases that cause our stomachs to churn. And I have to be honest, I'm being somewhat self-centered with this exercise - I really want to see clearly the Truth of scripture - and all I know now is "something" doesn't fit and it is attached to my Adventist understanding. And since I'm a little gun shy with commentaries (just having thrown out EGW) I really want to see scripturally the Truth and compare that with the source from where the lies came from (tis ok to show the Adventist reference to the untruth). Hope that makes since  . Conflict of the Ages . . . As I'm coming to understand the whole "plan of salvation" motif is an EGW "thing" . . . God is Sovereign and could not have failed the cross . . . then where does satan come into all this? Scripturally, it does look like satan said he wanted to ascend to the most high . . . and there was war in heaven (Rev.) and isn't satan referred to as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour . . . and then in my SDA understanding an example of that "warfare" was in Daniel. Where Daniel was sent an angel (Dan. 10:13) - but the angel was delayed, because the prince of this world fought the angel, . . .Oh, my goodness! I think this is EGW interpretation again - ugh!!!! Sorry, let me see if I can make this a clear question and statement . . . Why the "muck" evil, when God is sovereign? And God could wipe satan out with a breath . . . so why the "conflict" - as if satan does have some sort of power . . . ? Along with this question - then what about prayer and are we to pray for protection against the "enemy" - boy that kinda sounds hookey now too. . . Hope you can discern what I am trying to ask via my indoctrinated SDA understanding. Keri P.S. Wooo, I just reread Daniel 10:7-14 . . . I didn't realize this was referring to a vision - Feel free to "unpack" Dan. 10:7-14 too. Thanks for helping me . . . | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2008 |
P.S.S. I realize that the Adventist phrase "Conflict of the Ages" deals with the idea that God must vindicate His character to "watching" worlds . . . I realize that is all EGW and I believe there was a proclamation magazine on that topic . . . I have thrown out that vindication idea - since God does not need to vindicate anything - He is God . . . But I'm still not fully understanding the "conflict" the seeming battle that is experienced here on earth . . . God is sovereign, but yet there is a battle against "principalities and powers" In that day the LORD will punish Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph. 6:11,12 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col.1:15-17, NIV having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Col. 2:14-16 It looks like there is an unseen battle, ie. conflict., and God is over all His creation so He did create these "powers", BUT according to Col. They were disarmed at the cross and made a spectacle of . . . so could you assume that the conflict is to "make a spectacle" of evil and ofcourse nothing to do with God being on "trial" before the universe. My goodness . . . how convoluted has Adventism been! I have heard Mainstream Christians also talk about spiritual warfare . . . So what is my "job" in this "warfare" . . . How do I relate to the conflict? Put on the armor of God and stand? Yeh, just lots of questions, Keri | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9462 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hey, Keri-- Good questions! There IS evil, and there IS satan. Peter calls him a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour(1 Peter 5:8). But this presence of evil has nothing to do with an unfinished conflict of power between God and ANYONE. God is completely "other" than all creation. Think of Creation (visually) as a giant circle. Outside this circle is GOD. Inside the circle is everything created, including all universes, angels, humans, animals, stars, solar systems, galaxies, etc. Within the circle of "Creation" is a subset, another small circle labelled "evil". God is above, beyond, outside all creation including the perversion of that "cyst" we've labelled "evil". Evil is not a loose cannon, a malevolent force loose within eternity. Evil developed within creation, and according to Romans 8, God bound all creation over to the bondage of decay, and all creation awaits the physical redemption of God's people when the rest of creation will also be released from the bondage to decay. We are simply not told how or why the details of Satan's rebellion or of his being cast out. We are simply told that it happened. Similarly, we are not told the background story to how the serpent came to be in the garden, confined to one tree. We are only told the story of humanity--our story. As Aslan says in one of the Narnia books when one of the children asks him about one of the others, "I only tell you your own story." The "Conflict of the Ages" idea of EGW's is based on a lot of Ellen's statements that have been made less accessible, but they are available nonetheless. She said Satan was angered that Jesus was chosen by God to be exalted to the position of His Son, and he rebelled. She also indicated that Jesus had been with Lucifer "the highest angel in heaven", and when God exalted Jesus, Lucifer set the "conflict" in motion. These notions are perilously close to the Mormon belief that Jesus and Satan are brothers--but Lucifer "went bad", and Jesus is the "good brother". The "Conflict" motif assumes that Satan had some legitimate or peer-like grounds for fighting Jesus. Jesus was never exalted by God. Jesus has always been God. Satan has always been a creature. Jesus is Satan's creator. There has NEVER been a controversy between them. There has only been rebellion on the part of Satan. Satan knows who Jesus is—even the demons know the true nature and identity of God—and shudder (James 2:19). Satan has just constructed a giant fantasy to deceive the unsuspecting and to exalt himself. He is a creature just as we are creatures. He has nothing in common with Jesus or the rest of the Trinity. Satan is an enemy of God's people; we are to be aware of the danger of evil, but we are not to fear. We are to don the armor of God (Ephesians 6:1-18) and STAND. The only offensive weapon in the arsenal is the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God. The rest of the armor is defensive. We are not instructed to "fight" but to stand. We are to resist the devil and he will flee from us—but "resist" is defensive, not offensive. God always promised to fight Israel's battles when He asked them to attack the pagans in the land. They were to be obedient and go to war when asked, but they were to take their marching orders from Him, and He would accomplish the victory. He caused the enemy to turn on each other many times. He delivered the enemy into their hands; He drowned the enemy in the Sea, etc etc. We ARE to pray for God to protect us from evil; the Lord's Prayer has the model of a "spiritual warfare prayer"—"deliver us from evil". We are never instructed to personally engage with the demons. We are to expose them when necessary by the name of Jesus and ask for His protection and deliverance. But we are never instructed to name them and call them out. Demons are sent away by the power of the Lord Jesus. The "Conflict" we experience is our conflict with sin. We are by nature citizens of the "domain of darkness" (Eph 2:3; Col. 1:13). When we accept Jesus, the conflict is over; the cross has defeated the power of Satan, and he no longer is our master because we are no longer in the domain of darkness. We are in the kingdom of the Beloved Son, and He protects and seals us with His Spirit. Satan has not yet been destroyed; he is free to roam the globe. But when we are spiritually alive and hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3), we are protected from his control and only need to be aware that he will continue to attempt to deceive and disable us. He can't destroy us—but we can ask the Lord Jesus, our Head and Shepherd, to protect us with His own might arm and to give us His power to discern and to trust Him. The "Conflict" is not between God and satan. God is sovereign, even over the forces of evil. Evil is even God's "monkey". It cannot operate outside the parameters God imposes. And yes, Daniel 10 is amazing! Daniel saw an angel who was assisting Michael against the "prince of Persia"--a demon, not a man. There really is spiritual warfare that we can't see! But we aren't supposed to see—we are supposed to know and to trust Jesus. We cannot be eternally destroyed when we are in Jesus, and we can call on Him for protection and comfort and peace and His own power. These are the things God promises to believers in Jesus. He not only gives us provision and protection, but He gives us faith proportionally to our need. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2611 Registered: 10-2004  |
Keri, Colleen is right. There are battles between unfallen angels and fallen angels, and we are also involved in spiritual warfare. But there is no conflict between GOD and satan/demons. Notice that the "war in heaven" in Revelation 12 was between Michael (an archangel) and satan. It was between two angels (Michael and satan) and their angels under them--not between God and satan. Jeremy | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2008 |
Colleen and Jeremy, Thank you for responding and explaining . . . I looked up all the texts you mentioned and read around them too . . . My, oh, my, I have so much unlearning to do . . . I really want to see God "rightly". My concept and understanding of God has been so tainted by my indoctrination in Adventism. What an amazing God . . . with each blinder that is removed He becomes more Holy, Wonderful, Powerful, Indescribable . . . He truly has done it all . . . His yoke is easy and His burden is light . . . And He will fight for me - all I need do is stand in the armor He has already given me . . . Holy is He . . . Thanks for helping me see Him more clearly, Keri | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4284 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: We are not instructed to "fight" but to stand. We are to resist the devil and he will flee from us—but "resist" is defensive, not offensive. Are you saying we are not to engage Satan and his cohorts when we come in contact with it? Then what business has Paul doing this? Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. Was the conflict ‘over’ for Paul? Quote : But we are never instructed to name them and call them out. Demons are sent away by the power of the Lord Jesus. Just answer the question, is Paul calling the demon out of the woman? Yes or no? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit dwelling with-in you is always a non-combatant? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit with-in you is always Passive? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit dwelling with-in you is other than the Spirit of the Lord Jesus? Do you feel that you should never be directly controlled (under the unction) of the Holy Spirit. Do you feel that Paul had ‘special power?’ Could you point to me (in the Bible) where we are instructed to only remain defensive (passive)? Also please explain this sentence : Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Does ‘wrestle against’ mean ‘defensive, mean defensive, never offensive? What is the synonym for ‘wrestle.? Do you think it meant something else back then? Do you feel that Jesus would give his own disciples this Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits; Mark 6:13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them. And withhold it from us today? Do you feel that it was a ‘different Jesus’ than the Holy one who resides in you today? Do you feel that the Holy one who resides in you today has a different identity than the Jesus who sent his disciples out two by two? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit who resides in you today is a ‘roll player?’ I have a few other questions if I can get answers to those. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4285 Registered: 9-2006 |
I realize you are trying to answer to a screwball Adventist book, I just like to get down to the nitty gritty when it comes to the Bible. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4286 Registered: 9-2006 |
Fact is I feel like the fight against Adventism is the 'confict of the ages' at least my age, I'm 68 and its the biggest tussel I ever been involved with in my whole sorry life. Listening to formers trying to wade their way through the Bible just might hold a close second. River | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2008 |
I would be interested in those answers too River. I am just now realizing that God isn't really trying to "prove Himself" to other worlds. Are other worlds watching? Or is that just more sda nonsense? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4287 Registered: 9-2006 |
It's just more sda non-sense Ak, pure and simple, they get that from a scripture, I forget which one, but the scripture doesn't even resemble that. You couldn't pry that out of scripture is you tore it upside down. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9471 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, I absolutely believe God's people are to cast out demons and wrestle against spiritual powers. But the problem is that a lot of people (and Adventists actually have encountered these types in their own ranks often) who have "deliverance ministries". People with "deliverance ministries" have certain "rules", such as you have to identify and name each demon before it will leave a person alone. At our FAF weekend this last month, Richard and I gave a session on renouncing the spirit of Adventism. We had a couple of people there who are slowly extricating themselves from Adventism who have had a deliverance ministry. This person spoke up in our session and said that Adventists also have a "spirit of fear", and you have to name that spirit and specifically cast it out before it will leave. Now, this person had never before even considered the reality of a spirit of Adventism, but she'd been rebuking "spirits of whatever" for years. I do believe we sometimes have to renounce specific spiritual bondage as God makes it clear to us. But by no means do I think every Adventist, for example, has to have someone specifically renounce the "spirit of fear". I believe God reveals to us where our bondage is, and He does ask us to renounce these things. I further believe that to be truly free of Adventism, a person must acknowledge the true darkness of the demonic hold it has on people and repent, asking God to cleanse them from that spiritual bondage and to place His Spirit where Adventism had been in their hearts. I have seen people "messed up" by "deliverance ministries", emerging more frightened of demons than confident of the sufficient, eternal power of the Lord Jesus. Every time they have a problem, they try to identify the specific "demon" that's harassing them instead of submitting the struggle to the Lord Jesus for His protection, healing, and clarification. I totally believe we wrestle not against flesh and blood. But that text, Ephesians 6:12, is right in the middle of the "armor of God" passage. Paul instructs believers to put on the full armor of God "so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm, then, with the belt of truth…the breastplate of righteousness…feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace…the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions..." Our armor IS the gift of God: truth, righteousness, salvation, faith, the gospel, and the word of God. Of COURSE we have to contend for the faith and resist the devil and wrestle with principalities and powers, but we are called not to "deliverance ministry" per se but to carry the gospel. Without the gospel transforming and changing us, we have no business taking on demons. Further, the main point of rebuking demons is just one of the "job descriptions" of believers. Our focus is Jesus, and if we encounter a demon, we are instructed to call it out or to renounce it. My post above was basically trying to say—STOP worrying about identifying the demons that might be behind every symptom and instead surrender your sin and fear and unbelief and preconceived ideas to the Lord Jesus. He WILL show you if you have a spiritual claim you must renounce! And if He places you in the presence of a demon-possessed person, He will give you the discernment to know and to rebuke it. But Christians who are born again aren't to concentrate on demons. They are to place their full attention on the Lord Jesus and His word, submitting to His direction and authority and being willing to repent when He reveals one's sins and previously unrecognized personal "blind spots". Do I believe Christians are to address evil and renounce demons? YES! Do I believe that demon-hunting is what God calls us to do? NO! I'm probably one of the most vocal people I know about believing there is a real spirit of Adventism that must be renounced—and I further believe there are other real spirits of oppression as well. Jesus, however, has disarmed Satan, and his demons are merely already defeated, fallen creatures that the Holy Spirit in us can recognize and over whom He has authority. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9472 Registered: 12-2003 |
Akweavers, there is absolutely no evidence for life on other planets. Read Martinc's articles here: http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2008/1/martincarey.html And River, I do believe Paul and the other apostles cast out demons. I totally believe God gives that authority to all His children who are born again! My point, though, was that we aren't instructed to walk up to people who are struggling with sin and "name the demon" and command it to leave. Instead, we are instructed to call people to repentance. Sometimes the process of repentance does involve identifying a spiritual stronghold and praying to renounce it. And sometimes we encounter people who are controlled by a demon(s) and must command it in the name of Jesus to leave. There's no biblical precedent, however, for Jesus or the apostles walking up to a person controlled by an evil spirit and saying, "I command the spirit of fear (or homosexuality or kleptomania or alchoholism) to leave!" Rather, they confronted demon-possessed people and simply commanded the unnamed demon(s) to leave by the authority of Jesus, and the demon left. I see a difference between demon-possession and spiritual harrassment or strongholds. I was a born-again Christian who had already stopped attending the SDA church when I realized there was a spiritual claim on my heart that kept me emotionally connected to it. That's different from demon possession. Moreover, people can ask God themselves to remove those spirits from their hearts. In fact, I believe we must be willing and able to admit we can be experiencing demonic opposition or even a spirit of bondage. We must be willing to face that fact and give up our crippling attachment to God, asking Him to take from us whatever the spiritual claim is. Demon-possession is different from a Christ-follower having to renounce spiritual strongholds. A demon-possessed person is not likely able to pray on his own. A Christian must pray for him in order for him to have a clear mind to engage with Jesus. And no, of course I don't feel the Holy Spirit is "passive" or "non-combatant". I believe that living by the Spirit means we are called to surrender and offer ourselves as living sacrifices to the point where our lives are directly controlled by the Holy Spirit who IS the Spirit of Jesus and the Living God. Paul prays for the Ephesians (2:19) that they will know the unknowable love of Christ and be filled to the measure with the fullness of God. There's no half-way about that! I'm only saying that our lives are to be lived for Jesus, not lived to focus on naming and casting out demons. But absolutely—we are given power over the demons. That power was won for believers at the cross when Jesus publicly humiliated Satan and his agents. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4288 Registered: 9-2006 |
Undoubtly we both approached this subject from different points of thought. A thing that happens more often than not. I see why you made your statement. You explained the situation very well about this spirit business. Better than I could. I sure musta got your dander up though. Forgive me. River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 668 Registered: 7-2007 |
We don't have to worry about going out to encounter spiritual warfare. Demons come to us with various temptations. When that happens and we resist, we are in the midst of spiritual warfare. Sometimes it's real obvious and sometimes it's subtle. An example of obvious spiritual warfare is something that happened when I was studying my way out of the SDA church and into Christianity. I had already found out that Ellen White was a false prophet (first by becoming willing to look into her claims by verses about Michael the archangel such as Daniel 10:13 "...Michael, one of the chief princes..." and then verses in Hebrews that show Jesus didn't wait until 1844 to go into the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 6:19,20 "...which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus..."; and Hebrews 9:12,25 and Hebrews 10:12.) Anyway, one time as I went to study God's word, my mind was blocked from understanding it. It was if a dense cloud shrouded my mind. It took the prayer of a Christian before my mind was cleared, and then I could understand what I was reading in the Word of God again. (That happened two or three times before I studied my way into Christianity.) There IS a real spirit behind the cults. An example of less obvious spiritual warfare is when a pastor or someone gets "tired" or "burned out" on dealing with and teaching the people. That happens too and it's just as much spiritual warfare as the other. But any temptation we have involves spiritual warfare. Dianne | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2008 |
Colleen: Thanks for the link. I'll go read it now. River: I think today is the first time I really realized that the "other worlds" stuff is more sda junk Thanks Interesting dialog here. I am convinced that Adventism is a spirit to be renounced. It is in us almost like it is part of our blood. I would never ever ever go back to it..but it still tries to grab me and make me think I have to go back. | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 228 Registered: 4-2004 |
One thing I think we need to careful of when we're dealing with the whole concept of demonic activity is this. Yes, the Bible teaches that Satan tempts humans. However, since we have a sinful nature, we would still sin even if Satan took a vacation. Sometimes I get the impression that some Christians have a tendency to focus too much on demonic activity. This may cause them to forget their own weaknesses. Dane | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4289 Registered: 9-2006 |
The thing about demonic activity is yes its out there, but for the most part it stays hidden very well behind some mask or other, even if detected, its not always the thing to do to confront it. To constantly focus on real or imagined spirits is not a healthy thing, it takes our focus off Jesus and the Word. More of the time we are tempted by our own body and mind to lust after this or that. I learned a long time ago not to let Satan steal my time concentrating on him. I think if we do, when we actually need to we won't be full of the word enough to do any good. The power that is within any ,even new born Christian, is enough to put a whole train load to flight, simply because it is the Holy Spirit who has taken up residence in us and we need not fear. It is not our own power, but by the power of the Holy Spirit with-in us. I repeat, we need not fear, we have entered into the kingdom of Gods dear Son, even in these imperfect bodies and minds. I readily admit too not understanding this fully why God would do such a thing for me/us. I look and say 'yeah, someone else, but why me? But he did and has and it is the most amazing thing and its all grace. What an amazing thing it is too be borned into the family of God, some of us are most peculiar, but we are his children. As Dane so aptly put it 'We would still sin if Satan took a vacation. I sometimes think that the thing that makes Satan the maddest at us Christians is that we have gods ever present grace, an advocate with the Father and we cry Abba Father while he knows his end. He also knows that even the newest, weakest, Cristian can order him around like a dog on a leash, but he will try to bluff you and you can believe that. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9477 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey, River--I understand! No, I wasn't mad at you. I'm sorry I sounded uptight! I realized after I posted that I probably sounded defensive or annoyed. Actually, I appreciated your posts and am glad you asked the questions! Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2008 |
My two cents worth . . . Hope I can articulate this . . . Being a "lifer" Adventist and having read EGW quite a bit . . . DOA several times. . . the conflict of the ages series . . . etc. . . Thinking back on those readings . . . EGW seemed to focus or comment extensively on this "behind-the-scenes" demonic/principalities battle and what satan did. When I read her descriptions (and at the time, believing she was a 'real prophet') I thought . . . wow . . . she knew/could see what was happening in the "unseen" world . . . Lifers, remember her comments and how if this/ or that person hadn't succumbed to the temptation or "demonic" or satanic attack then - "this" or "that" negative consequence wouldn't have happened . . . Success was based on the "human" battling the forces of evil or making the right choices . . . So . . . why do I mention what I mention above . . . I think Adventists focus more on the "enemy" and defeating him, than Jesus who has already defeated him (as Colleen said so eloquently above). And a confession, as someone just coming out of Adventism I realize I can easily slip into focusing on the "enemy camp" and/or my negative circumstances than on Jesus and His power and victory. It is always good to have my thinking realigned with the Incredible, Awesomely, BIG, God and His word. And by the way, thanks for the lengthy post, Colleen. And good questions River that precipitated this bit of discussion. Keri | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4295 Registered: 9-2006 |
Keri, You know It never dawned on me the inordinate amount of time she focused on evil, well...it dawned on me in a way, but it never really entered my mind just that way, But now you mention that aspect of her it comes home loud and clear, a missing link you might say. Thanks for pointing that out. I think your dead on, we need to focus on Jesus and his word 24/7 if we can. Along about Friday I just sort of run out of gas, couldn't pray, just didn't have anything left and to top that off I left several thousand dollars worth of deposits in a shopping cart! I went back to the grocery store which was an Albertsons and has a U.S. Bank inside and the bank bag was not in the shopping carts. I just said 'Lord I am done up for now' I couldn't even pray about the deposits. Saturday I took my wife and drove about a hundred miles up the freeway, had a day out and come home Saturday night, still out in my soul, but rested a little, Sunday I worked in the office, Monday the Holy Spirit began to rejuvenate me. Today he has worked on me all day, blessing me and being close, Oh so close to me and I had forgotten about the missing 20,000 something deposit. Today I took another deposit up there and the Bank manager handed me my bank bag, someone had turned it in to the bank. I rejoiced to get it back, but most of all I have been able to rejoice in him today and to rejoice in the presence of his Holy Spirit and I feel fine. What an Awesome and powerful God we serve, who's got time to focus on Satan? Oh, what a savior! I feel like I could jump over two cars a Volkswagon about now. he just gets sweeter and sweeter every day. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4296 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen' I never thought you were mad at me, I did get the feeling I yanked your chain a little. Haa! Words on a screen don't have much personality do they? I don't got much personality off screen either (chuckle). I got about as much personality as a mule eatin' saw briars. River | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hey River, I need a "rest of the story" . . . Did the money bag that was returned . . . It was returned with all the money in - right? Thanks for sharing your story . . . Keri | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2008 |
Akweavers: Above you said:
I'm glad I am not alone . . . I, too, desire never to return, but if I am to be honest it draws me back. It tends to be a tug-of-war and since I'm still in the system, I'm constantly bombarded by it . . . But God is faithful and He gives me what I need when I call on Him. . . I was recently around several formers and it was interesting to hear the conversation - a question was asked most often - "So how long have you been out?" . . . it almost sounded like an AA meeting . . . How long have you been clean? Adventism seems to be like a "spiritual" addiction. As a side note: I have renounced the Spirit of Adventism in the past, but I was convicted this morning that I needed to again confess the encompassing hold it has had on me, the rebellious attitude to turn to "it" rather than seeking God - or focus on "it" rather than focusing on God - and I again had to ask for forgiveness . . . I am asking the Holy Spirit to reveal any sin that is still hanging on to me . . . or as mentioned above . . . asking that God would reveal any strongholds in my life . . . Coming out of Adventism truly is a humbling experience. Keri | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2008 |
One last thought that came to me while driving to work today . . . Get this Bible verse:
Get who is doing the fleeing . . . I always thought I was to flee - nope, I'm to stand and the devil flees. Love the imagery of that. Kinda like a dog, with tail between legs scampering away. Keri | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2008 |
Like I told a friend of mine who is coming out of sda now, "If that spirit thinks I will ever go back to that system of fear, it has another think coming". Freedom in Jesus is where it's at. By the grace of God,(because all things are by the grace of God) I will never go back. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 229 Registered: 8-2008 |
Get who is doing the fleeing . . . I always thought I was to flee - nope, I'm to stand and the devil flees. Love the imagery of that. Kinda like a dog, with tail between legs scampering away. Another similar reference that is often misinterpreted: Common interpretation actually places these gates as the gates of the Kingdom of Heaven. I.E., the Devil and his minions are always pressing against the church but will not be able to overcome it. That is the opposite of what Jesus is saying here. The gates He is talking about are not our gates, but the enemy's. We are pressing against his gates, and his gates will not be able to stop us. Compare to 2 Cor. 10:3,4: The Kingdom of God is meant to be playing offense, not defense. |
